Transgender athletes

#76

greenbacknative

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#76
Oh gosh, I know they are not the same. I brought it up to point out that gender isn’t always as simple as “just go with what they’re born with!” For instance, it is not uncommon for parents of newborn hermaphrodites to make a difficult decision to choose which gender their child will have to live with. Often, those parents choose a gender that doesn’t match what the child her/himself would have chosen if the choice — assuming making one were absolutely necessary — had been theirs to make at a time she/he were self-aware enough to understand.

Like I said, it’s complicated.
And when parents do this,, they should be put in jail. Charlize Theron and Angelina Jolie adopted a little boys(I think) and now wants to change them to little girls. If you wanted to have little girl, theres plenty to go around. Just don;t adopt a boy and put him through all this trauma growing up just cause youre rich and can do it. Geez our world is gone to sh=t!!!!!
 
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#78

VolFuture2k22

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#78
And when parents do this,, they should be put in jail. Charlize Theron and Angelina Jolie adopted a little boys(I think) and now wants to change them to little girls. If you wanted to have little girl, theres plenty to go around. Just don;t adopt a boy and put him through all this trauma growing up just cause youre rich and can do it. Geez our world is gone to sh=t!!!!!
That’s not what intersex is about. They were born with characteristics of both. It’s not the same
 
#79

VolFuture2k22

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#79
Oh gosh, I know they are not the same. I brought it up to point out that gender isn’t always as simple as “just go with what they’re born with!” For instance, it is not uncommon for parents of newborn hermaphrodites to make a difficult decision to choose which gender their child will have to live with. Often, those parents choose a gender that doesn’t match what the child her/himself would have chosen if the choice — assuming making one were absolutely necessary — had been theirs to make at a time she/he were self-aware enough to understand.

Like I said, it’s complicated.
Just saying intersex shouldn’t be brought up in the same conversation as transgender. Not the same. Not where the common case of modern transgenderism stems from
 
#80

travis929

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#80
Nothing to do with transphobia - using that as an accusation is nothing but a deflection. The point has nothing to do with transgender and everything to do with biological males competing against biological females.
I thought I made it clear that I thought that there was a fair debate to be had, and that I was referring to the transphobic slurs used in several comments as well as several of the photos that were shared with derogatory comments.

I couldn’t care less what GLSEN (a biased action group) says. It’s not transphobic to not want transgender athletes to compete against biological women. If the person in question has gone through male puberty they should be barred from competition or have to compete at the highest level (the male level). As for those who transition before puberty, that’s a little more gray. They probably should get to. However, it’s a sketchy world we live in that doctors would allow children to try and change their sex. They don’t all know; de-transition is real especially after puberty. As to the suicide rates, nothing suggest that they be allowed to compete as their preferred gender would help.
GLSEN is not a biased action group. They were founded by teachers and provide life-saving resources to LGBTQ youth, among other educational programs.

I disagree with your point about suicide rates. From the NYTimes article I shared: "'It makes me feel like the people in power don’t really see me as a human,' said Percephone Bias, 18, a transgender woman who competed on her high school’s varsity cheerleading team in Boise last school year."

I think if youth are allowed to be part of a team (and locker room) that aligns with their gender identity, and are supported by those on their teams and in their community, then wouldn't that reduce the risk of depression and suicide?
 
#82

Pappy

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#82
well, with 32 or more recognized genders now basketball games would have to be cut to 5 minutes per gender if they all were playing against 'their' recognized gender. could you imagine the All American teams selection show? it would last hours and how would they decide in what order these athletes would be presented not to discriminate one against the other? can you imagine the different unis selected for each school to support each group's gender..no more orange and white because those colors may offend a group or two......dang this could get crazy.....so, why did I bring this up? blame it on cabin fever... GO VOLS o_O
 
#83

Pappy

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#83
I thought I made it clear that I thought that there was a fair debate to be had, and that I was referring to the transphobic slurs used in several comments as well as several of the photos that were shared with derogatory comments.



GLSEN is not a biased action group. They were founded by teachers and provide life-saving resources to LGBTQ youth, among other educational programs.

I disagree with your point about suicide rates. From the NYTimes article I shared: "'It makes me feel like the people in power don’t really see me as a human,' said Percephone Bias, 18, a transgender woman who competed on her high school’s varsity cheerleading team in Boise last school year."

I think if youth are allowed to be part of a team (and locker room) that aligns with their gender identity, and are supported by those on their teams and in their community, then wouldn't that reduce the risk of depression and suicide?
LGBTQ: what is the difference in 'G' and 'Q'.....being serious here
 
#84

brassie

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#84
I thought I made it clear that I thought that there was a fair debate to be had, and that I was referring to the transphobic slurs used in several comments as well as several of the photos that were shared with derogatory comments.



GLSEN is not a biased action group. They were founded by teachers and provide life-saving resources to LGBTQ youth, among other educational programs.

I disagree with your point about suicide rates. From the NYTimes article I shared: "'It makes me feel like the people in power don’t really see me as a human,' said Percephone Bias, 18, a transgender woman who competed on her high school’s varsity cheerleading team in Boise last school year."

I think if youth are allowed to be part of a team (and locker room) that aligns with their gender identity, and are supported by those on their teams and in their community, then wouldn't that reduce the risk of depression and suicide?
The conversation has nothing to do with homophobia or transphobia. It is about the inherent unfairness when biological males are allowed to compete against females. We should not try to deflect from the point by attempting to conflate the two.
 
#85

supersmo18

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#85
The only solution is to have transgender competitions
I would agree; however, to play devil's advocate, if that were to happen then we would probably have someone in that very group stand up and say they're being further discriminated against because they aren't being allowed to compete with the biologically true males/females.
 
#86
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#86
I would agree; however, to play devil's advocate, if that were to happen then we would probably have someone in that very group stand up and say they're being further discriminated against because they aren't being allowed to compete with the biologically true males/females.
sure they can....if they want to compete with their own true biological gender...Nothing would stop that.
 
#88
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#88
LGBTQ: what is the difference in 'G' and 'Q'.....being serious here
per the definitions in : Glossary of Terms | Human Rights Campaign

Gay | A person who is emotionally, romantically or sexually attracted to members of the same gender.
Queer | A term people often use to express fluid identities and orientations. Often used interchangeably with "LGBTQ."

What I, being non-either would get from this definition is that gay is a partner choice and queer is a visible lifestyle choice. (the difference to me as a reader would be that "queer" is more of what the, (and this is not to be derogatory, but simply I do not have a better way of putting it) crass heterosexual would call "flaming",,,or a more pc individual might describe as extremely "undeniably visibly homosexual" . (e.g..RuPaul's drag race participants.)

anyone from that realm can correct me if I am wrong...I to would like to know the difference if this isn't it. There will be a chapter in my book on this topic...research into this term is part of it.
 
#90

Chippo

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#90
There is no sane scenario where a transgender woman should be allowed to compete with women. It will never be fair, it can never be fair. Anyone who insists upon it is at best blinded by their ideology, and at worst ... well ... no need to turn this into a debate. It's simply untenable.
Just shows how screwed up America is. The whole country is upside down. As Jesus said " a house divided will not stand". Right is Right and Wrong is Wrong.
 
#91

Roustabout

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#91
I thought I made it clear that I thought that there was a fair debate to be had, and that I was referring to the transphobic slurs used in several comments as well as several of the photos that were shared with derogatory comments.



GLSEN is not a biased action group. They were founded by teachers and provide life-saving resources to LGBTQ youth, among other educational programs.

I disagree with your point about suicide rates. From the NYTimes article I shared: "'It makes me feel like the people in power don’t really see me as a human,' said Percephone Bias, 18, a transgender woman who competed on her high school’s varsity cheerleading team in Boise last school year."

I think if youth are allowed to be part of a team (and locker room) that aligns with their gender identity, and are supported by those on their teams and in their community, then wouldn't that reduce the risk of depression and suicide?
The problem is that other classes that experience social rejection and much worse don’t have those suicide rates.
it is absurd to try to tell me that I have to affirm someone’s delusion to keep them from killing themselves. We don’t do this with any other dysphoria or disorder.
 
#92

IPleadInsanity

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#92
The conversation has nothing to do with homophobia or transphobia. It is about the inherent unfairness when biological males are allowed to compete against females. We should not try to deflect from the point by attempting to conflate the two.
Yes, don't complicate it, its this simple. If you don't agree then why have any barriers at all, just have sports and everyone compete equally, no gender barriers. To let biological males compete against women basically does the same thing.
 
#93

Voltopia

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#93
I thought I made it clear that I thought that there was a fair debate to be had, and that I was referring to the transphobic slurs used in several comments as well as several of the photos that were shared with derogatory comments.



GLSEN is not a biased action group. They were founded by teachers and provide life-saving resources to LGBTQ youth, among other educational programs.

I disagree with your point about suicide rates. From the NYTimes article I shared: "'It makes me feel like the people in power don’t really see me as a human,' said Percephone Bias, 18, a transgender woman who competed on her high school’s varsity cheerleading team in Boise last school year."

I think if youth are allowed to be part of a team (and locker room) that aligns with their gender identity, and are supported by those on their teams and in their community, then wouldn't that reduce the risk of depression and suicide?
You are conflating "supporting people" with "create unfair competitive environments for athletic competition." In your argument, the fairness of sports should be set aside to support transgender people who wish to compete in athletic competitions -- well, specifically, transgender women who want to compete in womens' sports. Or more simply, you want society to accept transgender women as completely equivalent to biological women in every capacity, up to and including competitive activities based on physical ability. In other words, you want total acceptance. All or nothing. The problem is, if you want all or nothing, and insist on making athletic competitions part of that all or nothing, you will eventually get nothing. At least with respect to sports.
 
#94
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#94
As the individual who started the thread stated the answers are not easy ones in the competitive status of sports. This topic is one where nearly all posters are positional, as in not interested or expected to alter their beliefs as a result of reading anything from other posters.

-In the early 1900s the pro and con, right and wrong, was over women suffrage

-we have discussed the strong opposition of allowing women to play full-court. Some boarders have recently posted they liked the half-court offensive defensive game better.

-Gay men and women no longer-hiding their sexual orientation. (interesting how Southern Baptist- Baylor was so careful re Grinter)

My/Your lens of observation has been acquired over our lifetimes culture etc. I would argue that I and most others have perceptions, not truths.
 
#95
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#95
As the individual who started the thread stated the answers are not easy ones in the competitive status of sports. This topic is one where nearly all posters are positional, as in not interested or expected to alter their beliefs as a result of reading anything from other posters.

-In the early 1900s the pro and con, right and wrong, was over women suffrage

-we have discussed the strong opposition of allowing women to play full-court. Some boarders have recently posted they liked the half-court offensive defensive game better.

-Gay men and women no longer-hiding their sexual orientation. (interesting how Southern Baptist- Baylor was so careful re Grinter)

My/Your lens of observation has been acquired over our lifetimes culture etc. I would argue that I and most others have perceptions, not truths.
what ?
 
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#96

travis929

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#96
You are conflating "supporting people" with "create unfair competitive environments for athletic competition." In your argument, the fairness of sports should be set aside to support transgender people who wish to compete in athletic competitions -- well, specifically, transgender women who want to compete in womens' sports. Or more simply, you want society to accept transgender women as completely equivalent to biological women in every capacity, up to and including competitive activities based on physical ability. In other words, you want total acceptance. All or nothing. The problem is, if you want all or nothing, and insist on making athletic competitions part of that all or nothing, you will eventually get nothing. At least with respect to sports.
I actually haven't at any point come out with my position on whether or not I think trans women should be allowed to compete in women's sports. I just felt like there were many on this board posting derogatory, transphobic comments and not taking the time to consider the perspective of trans folks in this debate, and I felt it was important to speak up and present a counter-narrative.
 
#97

travis929

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#97
per the definitions in : Glossary of Terms | Human Rights Campaign

Gay | A person who is emotionally, romantically or sexually attracted to members of the same gender.
Queer | A term people often use to express fluid identities and orientations. Often used interchangeably with "LGBTQ."

What I, being non-either would get from this definition is that gay is a partner choice and queer is a visible lifestyle choice. (the difference to me as a reader would be that "queer" is more of what the, (and this is not to be derogatory, but simply I do not have a better way of putting it) crass heterosexual would call "flaming",,,or a more pc individual might describe as extremely "undeniably visibly homosexual" . (e.g..RuPaul's drag race participants.)

anyone from that realm can correct me if I am wrong...I to would like to know the difference if this isn't it. There will be a chapter in my book on this topic...research into this term is part of it.
As someone who uses both terms for myself, sometimes interchangeably, in my opinion you're on the right track (though I think these terms mean different things to different people in the LGBTQ community so I can't begin to claim I'm speaking for everyone). I don't think I agree with your point about queer necessarily equaling "flaming" or "undeniably visibly homosexual", but rather how I choose to present myself as a member of the LGBT community, how I connect with other LGBT folks, how I experience the world, and how I bring a particular perspective to different topics based on my identity and past experiences. I also like the term "queer" because it often serves as a more inclusive umbrella term for anyone on the LGBT spectrum.

Thanks, Jumper, for engaging with this in an open and thoughtful way.
 
#98

Lucy

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#98
The conversation has nothing to do with homophobia or transphobia. It is about the inherent unfairness when biological males are allowed to compete against females. We should not try to deflect from the point by attempting to conflate the two.
You are the one who started this travesty of a thread. Did you in any way not understand it would devolve into a hatefest? This is a very difficult situation and it will take the wisdom of Solomon to find a fair solution. All you did was push buttons. Should have thought of homophobia and transphobia before now.
 
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GameTime

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Three female high school athletes in CT have filed a lawsuit contending that a CT Athletic Conference policy that allows biological males (identifying as female) to compete against female athletes. The female students are saying that the competition is unfair (two transgender males have won all of their HS track meets against females) and violates Title IX. The CIAC contends that allowing biological males to compete against females is compliant with both state and federal law. The ACLU said it would seek to join the lawsuit to defend the interests of transgender student athletes.

Is this the future? If so how long before some WCBB coach recruits a 7' transgender male?
How long before some girl is killed by a guy that feels like he is a woman...Look at the terror on the girls face...That's the one being choked out by the guy. Forget about it.
 

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