Toliver

#1
rexvol

rexvol

The Minister of Defense
Joined
Apr 29, 2006
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#1
Hempstead (Texas) wide receiver Terrance Toliver was close to making his official commitment live on NBC Saturday. However, after the West's 24-7 victory over the East, Toliver said he wants to put things on hold until national signing day on Feb. 7. Get the latest in Saturday's Army game notebook.

wonder what this means????????
 
#2
#2
He just wasn't ready to commit yesterday. He said it's still between LSU and FL though. We are out of the picture as of now.
 
#6
#6
Les "RE RE" Miles will do absolutely nothing with this class...I think he's the next Phillip Fulmer...bring'em in and send'em out the same as they came in...
 
#9
#9
rexvol said:
except Fulmer sends them out worse than they came in
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Thats a ridiculous gross exaggeration. No player has EVER gotten worse while at UT. Some might not have improved as much as we would have liked. But, none got worse.
 
#10
#10
Your wrong on the one rick.

Tee Martin was one
So was Casey Clausen
 
#11
#11
Vol67 said:
Your wrong on the one rick.

Tee Martin was one
So was Casey Clausen
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Tee Martin and Casey Clausen were better in high school than when they left college? Thats ridiculous. Their production in high school looks better because of the competition. But, they were better football players after college. Maybe they did not reach the potential we thought they had. But, they did not get worse.
 
#13
#13
Look at Martin's Jr Year then at His Senior year He got Worse.

Casey was better as a Freshman than any other year.

Tee was a good college QB but nowhere near being considered Great
 
#14
#14
I did not say players have not "taken a step back" at times. There are so many variables that go into that. I am not defending Fulmer's reign as one of amazing player development. But, at the same time, there has been plenty of players that have grown tremendously while at UT. Its not all or nothing. Its an individual basis. Position coaches also play a large roll in that. Look at the difference in player development at the WR position because we moved from Washington to Trooper. Fulmer takes the blame for the WR not developing but then Trooper gets the praise when they do develop??? Thats a flawed philosophy.
 
#15
#15
Vol67 said:
Look at Martin's Jr Year then at His Senior year He got Worse.

Casey was better as a Freshman than any other year.

Tee was a good college QB but nowhere near being considered Great
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Who was there QB coach? Fulmer did not "undevelop" their talent. Just like Fulmer did not "develop" the WR talent this year. Position coaches and individual drive develop or undevelop players.
 
#16
#16
I said nothing about Fulmer, but if you want to go there who is ultimately responsible---- The HC as in Fulmer.
 
#17
#17
Regardless of who coached them, Martin was better his Jr year because he was surrounded with better players. Clausen never had the physical tools to be anything more than a serviceable SEC QB. It was an odd string of events that made his career even as successful as it was.

He was the beneficiary of never having anyone better at the right place and time to take his job. Clausen was a tough and smart guy but he couldn't throw deep or the deep out and wasn't particularly accurate with short throws. His mediocrity had as much to do with the Vol decline as Sanders, Fulmer, or anything else. He was a four year starter that wouldn't have been higher than 3rd on this year's depth chart.
 
#19
#19
sjt18 said:
Regardless of who coached them, Martin was better his Jr year because he was surrounded with better players. Clausen never had the physical tools to be anything more than a serviceable SEC QB. It was an odd string of events that made his career even as successful as it was.

He was the beneficiary of never having anyone better at the right place and time to take his job. Clausen was a tough and smart guy but he couldn't throw deep or the deep out and wasn't particularly accurate with short throws. His mediocrity had as much to do with the Vol decline as Sanders, Fulmer, or anything else. He was a four year starter that wouldn't have been higher than 3rd on this year's depth chart.
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Martin had as much talent in his Sr. year as he did his Jr. year.

As for Clausen you obviously are biased against Clausen. Casey was the one who had very little talent surrounding him. Those that give him no credit for the job he did with some really weak UT teams is why his little brother is at ND.
 
#20
#20
therickbol said:
I did not say players have not "taken a step back" at times. There are so many variables that go into that. I am not defending Fulmer's reign as one of amazing player development. But, at the same time, there has been plenty of players that have grown tremendously while at UT. Its not all or nothing. Its an individual basis. Position coaches also play a large roll in that. Look at the difference in player development at the WR position because we moved from Washington to Trooper. Fulmer takes the blame for the WR not developing but then Trooper gets the praise when they do develop??? Thats a flawed philosophy.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Fulmer let Washington stay around too long, as he did Sanders as OC. Hence, Fulmer takes the blame. In the same regards, Fulmer also gets credit for the improvement the WR's made, with the coaching change he made.
 
#21
#21
Vol67 said:
Martin had as much talent in his Sr. year as he did his Jr. year.
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No he didn't and the defense was not nearly as good.

That was also the first year of Sanders at OC. That probably had some effect.

As for Clausen you obviously are biased against Clausen. Casey was the one who had very little talent surrounding him. Those that give him no credit for the job he did with some really weak UT teams is why his little brother is at ND.
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I may be alone but I am thrilled that UT won't have another Clausen under center.

I think both of the other guys were tough and smart but neither could make the throws. I'd say that Casey had more talent around him than Shuler and as much as Manning. He simply didn't have the arm to get it to them. Not his fault but he was what he was. That is precisely why the NFL wasn't interested. Tough and smart are great... but you have to have the arm.

The latest version seems to have it all but is cocky as all get out.
 
#22
#22
More than Shuler and as much as Manning are you kidding me. What country were you living in?

Let's talk about 2002 when the only effective let alone reliable reciever Casey had was Witten and NO running game and a bad OL plus injuries on top of injuries.

How about 2003 with average recievers and Victor McClure at TE and the OL featuring Sean Young plus no running game.

2001 was the only year he had anywhere near the Talent SHuler and Manning had

2000 they had some talent but not as good as 97-99 or 2001
 
#23
#23
Kelly Washington in spite of the attitude was as talented as any WR at UT since Pickens. Stallworth was absolutely solid. Travis Stephens was a good back. Cedric Houston, Jabari Davis, Banks, Jones, Hannon,... Tony Brown was productive.

Amazingly, guys can look at Clausen's lack of arm strength and blame everyone else because he wasn't better. He was tough and smart. He was not a great QB physically... in fact, he wasn't even SEC caliber in that regard.

Just answer, why didn't the NFL want him? There is only one reason and it is the same reason that he contributed to UT's decline. He limited what the offense could do.
 
#24
#24
sjt18 said:
Kelly Washington in spite of the attitude was as talented as any WR at UT since Pickens. Stallworth was absolutely solid. Travis Stephens was a good back. Cedric Houston, Jabari Davis, Banks, Jones, Hannon,... Tony Brown was productive.

Amazingly, guys can look at Clausen's lack of arm strength and blame everyone else because he wasn't better. He was tough and smart. He was not a great QB physically... in fact, he wasn't even SEC caliber in that regard.

Just answer, why didn't the NFL want him? There is only one reason and it is the same reason that he contributed to UT's decline. He limited what the offense could do.
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Houston was as average as they come in college. Don't even try that Jabari Davis, he was the biggest bust at UT in the last 15 years neither he nor Houston can be named next to the RB's from 1989 thru 2000. Stephens played in 2001 and that was the best talent Ut had until last year. Washington played 1 1/2 years with 2001 being his best year by far. Jones was brought from Defense cause the WR's weren't getting the job done. Stallworth was gone after 2001, Hannon was average and never reached potential, Banks was a stud but was young and still trying to be a QB, Tony Brown was a very reliaible possession reciever. Its very obvious you have a hatred for Clausen and a selective memory of 2000-2003 and need to go back and look. 2002 and 2003 is the least talented offense at UT since 1988

Who was the leading reciever in 2002?

Who was the leading rusher in 2002 & 2003 and how many yards?

Those 2 questions tell the tale on that one. Peyton would have done no better in 02 or 03 with that talent.

As for the arm strength you can throw that out the window. Andy Kelly had a weak arm also.

Now for the Pro argument let's talk about Martin, how about Kelly and Francis shall I continue?

What you are saying is if they aren't a great NFL QB then they wasn't a good college QB.

I have news for you QB's aren't drafted into the NFL because they are great college QB's that just get's them noticed, they are drafted on pro potential.

Casey was a good college QB same as Andy Kelly and Jeff Francis but none of them were League material.
 
#25
#25
Who cares about the NFL the guys you all are talking about were college QB's and they were both darn good ones. Were they NFL star material? no but who cares they were playing for UT not the Titans, and all they ever did at UT was win a helluva lot of football games, one even has an NCAA record and a national championship. Jeez, what it takes to be good player in some people's minds is beyond me.
 
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