To Protect and to Serve...

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#9,527
#9,527
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement for the boys in blue. They don't appear to be doing a very good job preventing crime.

I know, we need more cops as well as more funding for them as well, right? No thanks.
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Cops don't/can't stop crime. Their job is not to prevent crime, it's to deliver those that have committed crime to the justice system.

To reduce crime, you have to change the economic outlook of a particular area.
 
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#9,529
#9,529
SpaceCoastVol said:
PreCrime division?
Minority Report?

They should definitely be able to fill in the gaps for the decline of nuclear families, fathers in prison or gone or dead. Yeah, that's the cops job.
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Not to mention it is impossible to record crimes that are not committed. But, let them keep on thinking what they think.
 
#9,530
#9,530
Dr Dread said:
Cops don't/can't stop crime. Their job is not to prevent crime, it's to deliver those that have committed crime to the justice system.

To reduce crime, you have to change the economic outlook of a particular area.
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I'll disagree to an extent. I think the deterrent factor is helpful in preventing crime. It's true that not all crime will be prevented, but when you flood cops into an area, it does make it a little less likely.

Just my opinion.
 
#9,531
#9,531
MercyPercy said:
The true position of personal responsibility is allowing people to decide for themselves what they want to put in their own bodies without threat of imprisonment. You can't claim to be for personal responsibility if you are against that freedom, which is a personal decision. So, by invoking the "personal responsibility" argument over and over again, you're only consistently exposing how you don't really understand that governmental control over such things is the antithesis of holding people responsible for their own actions, and instead, making the government responsible, which is how they continue to gain more and more power over civilians.
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Agreed. Absolutely. You wanna smoke, and get cancer. Your responsibility to pay for your own treatment. You wanna eat McDonald's fries all day long, your diabetes treatments are on you.

This is why single payer health care will be an abortion of epic proportions, because it does not foster any personal responsibility whatsoever.
 
#9,533
#9,533
SpaceCoastVol said:
To some extent that is true, but is overly simplistic and naive.
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How about this? An even more appropriate comparison would be a pharmacy. Your pharmacy is full of drugs that thieves want really, really badly(either to sell or take, or both). Are shootouts at the pharmacy a common occurrence? Are they even close to as common as shootouts between gangs in the streets?
 
#9,535
#9,535
Grand Vol said:
Ummm, no.
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Well since the repeal of the 18th only repealed prohibition on the federal level, there were many states who continued prohibition. So I'm sure in those states violence and corruption regarding the manufacture and distribution of alcohol still existed. So when I said overnight I was referring to areas that prohibition was repealed.

When/where was there massive corruption and violence surrounding the distribution and manufacturing of alcohol after prohibition had been lifted in that area?
 
#9,536
#9,536
MercyPercy said:
How about this? An even more appropriate comparison would be a pharmacy. Your pharmacy is full of drugs that thieves want really, really badly(either to sell or take, or both). Are shootouts at the pharmacy a common occurrence? Are they even close to as common as shootouts between gangs in the streets?
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There has been quite a few robberies at pharmacies.....it's much harder to get away with robbing a pharmacy than it is to rob someone on the street.
 
#9,537
#9,537
volbeast33 said:
There has been quite a few robberies at pharmacies.....it's much harder to get away with robbing a pharmacy than it is to rob someone on the street.
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1) any legal business that carries an expensive product is at risk of being robbed. Yet we still manage to operate jewelry stores, pharmacies, gun stores, electronics stores, etc without society devolving into chaos.

2) yes, it's much harder to rob a legal drug dispensary than it is to rob someone on the Street. That's the idea.
 
#9,538
#9,538
pretty sure the gangs running alcohol back in the day just changed over to the next illegal substance, drugs. and there was still plenty of violence over it.

and as far as the pharmacies and drug stores go, here in Atlanta a good number have their own security or off duty cops hanging out. it might be safer, but it is not safe. and the safety likely comes from being able to do it in a safer neighborhood and conditions (well lit, more people etc) not the legality of the substance. if paper suddenly became illegal a trip to Office Depot (assuming they still sold it for whatever reason) doesn't become more dangerous, except concerning cops.
 
#9,539
#9,539
Grand Vol said:
I'll disagree to an extent. I think the deterrent factor is helpful in preventing crime. It's true that not all crime will be prevented, but when you flood cops into an area, it does make it a little less likely.

Just my opinion.
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Only for as long as you can maintain that lvl of a presents, then it returns. And usually all that happens is it moves to other less policed areas.

Also, in many instances, because the police are there to deal with criminals, they treat everyone like they're criminals. Leads to over-policing. Puts the police at risk. Puts the citizens at risk.

Poor way to use resources.
 
#9,540
#9,540
Dr Dread said:
Only for as long as you can maintain that lvl of a presents, then it returns. And usually all that happens is it moves to other less policed areas.

Also, in many instances, because the police are there to deal with criminals, they treat everyone like they're criminals. Leads to over-policing. Puts the police at risk. Puts the citizens at risk.

Poor way to use resources.
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Valid points. And can breed resentment towards officers as well.

I think a careful balance like York has suggested, where the community and the police work together, is best. Proactive policing and proactive communities working together.
 
#9,541
#9,541
Dr Dread said:
Only for as long as you can maintain that lvl of a presents, then it returns. And usually all that happens is it moves to other less policed areas.

Also, in many instances, because the police are there to deal with criminals, they treat everyone like they're criminals. Leads to over-policing. Puts the police at risk. Puts the citizens at risk.

Poor way to use resources.
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not always the case, if you give the neighborhood and any businesses long enough to get established. once the cops leave hopefully a new better presence has taken root and the "bad guys" can't return. while you are shuffling the crime around in the mean time you are also decreasing the ranks they can draw from. several neighborhoods here in Atlanta have done that, they aren't super successful or gentrified now, but there are legitimate businesses and people spending money and crime has stayed away, to an extent.
 
#9,542
#9,542
Cdywolfe said:
Well since the repeal of the 18th only repealed prohibition on the federal level, there were many states who continued prohibition. So I'm sure in those states violence and corruption regarding the manufacture and distribution of alcohol still existed. So when I said overnight I was referring to areas that prohibition was repealed.

When/where was there massive corruption and violence surrounding the distribution and manufacturing of alcohol after prohibition had been lifted in that area?
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Surrounding alcohol, sure. I misread your post as an all encompassing "all violence and corruption stopped when prohibition ended."

But either way, the gangs of the time just moved into other illegal areas where they could make money. Sure, Prohibition put a stop to Al Capone and the likes, but not to the Mob as a whole.
 
#9,543
#9,543
LouderVol said:
pretty sure the gangs running alcohol back in the day just changed over to the next illegal substance, drugs. and there was still plenty of violence over it.
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You guys are making my own arguments for me. The above demonstrates how prohibition of any drug(alcohol, weed, cocaine) facilitates the environment for violent criminal organizations to prosper.

and as far as the pharmacies and drug stores go, here in Atlanta a good number have their own security or off duty cops hanging out. it might be safer, but it is not safe. and the safety likely comes from being able to do it in a safer neighborhood and conditions (well lit, more people etc) not the legality of the substance. if paper suddenly became illegal a trip to Office Depot (assuming they still sold it for whatever reason) doesn't become more dangerous, except concerning cops.
Click to expand...

Nowhere is completely safe. The pharmacy comparison makes too much sense. Obviously, there are some in very bad areas that are more at risk than those in better areas. That rings true for any business. Personally, I don't fear going into a pharmacy. You might fear a certain part of town, but that doesn't really have anything to do with the comparison, as the location is an independent variable.
 
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#9,544
#9,544
MercyPercy said:
You guys are making my own arguments for me. The above demonstrates how prohibition of any drug(alcohol, weed, cocaine) facilitates the environment for violent criminal organizations to prosper.



Nowhere is completely safe. The pharmacy comparison makes too much sense. Obviously, there are some in very bad areas that are more at risk than those in better areas. That rings true for any business. Personally, I don't fear going into a pharmacy. You might fear a certain part of town, but that doesn't really have anything to do with the comparison, as the location is an independent variable.
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buckhead Atlanta, isn't exactly "diverse" but still has a cop patrolling the CVS.
 
#9,545
#9,545
LouderVol said:
buckhead Atlanta, isn't exactly "diverse" but still has a cop patrolling the CVS.
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I must be a lucky mother****er for going to just about every Walgreens and CVS in Jacksonville(including those in the hood!) and never experiencing a shootout, or fearing for my life, or needing cops to save me from pillheads trying to make off with the stash.
 
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#9,546
#9,546
MercyPercy said:
I must be a lucky mother****er for going to just about every Walgreens and CVS in Jacksonville(including those in the hood!) and never experiencing a shootout, or fearing for my life, or needing cops to save me from pillheads trying to make off with the stash.
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Try Walmart at 3:00 AM instead...
 
#9,547
#9,547
Grand Vol said:
Try Walmart at 3:00 AM instead...
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Something crazy is going on around here

Every week, some crazy ass shoots at civilians. Shoots at the cops. There's a manhunt for a '"armed and dangerous" man.

This is mostly taking place in NWA. There's one on the loose now in my county. (Sebastian)

Freaking heat is making every one nuts.
 
#9,548
#9,548
LouderVol said:
not always the case, if you give the neighborhood and any businesses long enough to get established. once the cops leave hopefully a new better presence has taken root and the "bad guys" can't return. while you are shuffling the crime around in the mean time you are also decreasing the ranks they can draw from. several neighborhoods here in Atlanta have done that, they aren't super successful or gentrified now, but there are legitimate businesses and people spending money and crime has stayed away, to an extent.
Click to expand...

This example addresses the economic aspect of the area, which goes toward my original point. There has to be a change in the economic makeup of an area in order to have lasting change in the crime rate.
 
#9,549
#9,549
Just for fun, I did some research. There were ~829 total pharmacy robberies in 2014. That's around 2.27 pharmacy robberies per day across the country. There are ~67,000 pharmacies in the United States.

Sooper dooper dangerous.
 
#9,550
#9,550
MercyPercy said:
Just for fun, I did some research. There were ~829 total pharmacy robberies in 2014. That's around 2.27 pharmacy robberies per day across the country. There are ~67,000 pharmacies in the United States.

Sooper dooper dangerous.
Click to expand...

We have had 2 here in the last month.
 
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