To Protect and to Serve...

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#1,251
#1,251
tim said:
LE is like life. Some are well educated some are not. Some of the worst cops occupy both levels. Education is not an indicator of how good a person is. You realize that a large portion of our military is not highly educated, right.
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The soldiers in the military don't have the authority to break down a person's door and terrorize a family. They can't ruin a person's life on some trumped up charge because they didn't receive the "respect" they thought they deserved. The vast majority of LE are respectable, but it only takes one encounter with one of the ones who watched too many episodes of COPS and grew up wanting to be the "bad boy" to make your life miserable.
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#1,252
#1,252
Grand Vol said:
Victory in Palmer v. D.C. | Reality-Based Litigation

From the lead attorney. It lists "DC" as the defendant which would encompass the police. But aimed at the policies that were passed by the District itself.

And I thought it was good publicity since she didn't wait for the DC Mayor or Council to make up yet more rules that would restrict the Rights yet again. Because you know it's coming. And at this point regardless of reciprocity with other States, she is giving a blanket policy to accept any and all CCW permits regardless if there's anything on the books. It's a small victory for a place with a history like DC.

ETA: You are correct, I didn't know she was specifically listed as a defendant. My apologies.
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No worries. (I'm glad it went the way it did.) :)
 
#1,253
#1,253
Orange_Crush said:
GV... After revisiting the post I replied to, and verifying context, and what you said...

Since you were responding to posts about no-knock raids, and specifically posted about shooting dogs during no-knock raids...

And I replied about no-knock raids...

You can get off your high-horse and stop claiming I misrepresented your point.

But just for fun, I'll link to a completely irrelevant website just like you did,

Kids Birthday Party Clowns, Magicians, Bounce Houses NY | Clowns.com
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Cute OC...

Some of you folks have problems with context. Need I explain further about said link and the way it fits into the last paragraph I mentioned?
 
#1,254
#1,254
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
The soldiers in the military don't have the authority to break down a person's door and terrorize a family. They can't ruin a person's life on some trumped up charge because they didn't receive the "respect" they thought they deserved. The vast majority of LE are respectable, but it only takes one encounter with one of the ones who watched too many episodes of COPS and grew up wanting to be the "bad boy" to make your life miserable.
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You obviously were not in the military, but I'll entertain you for a second. The guys I worked with are all highly educated, passed extensive back ground checks (secret to top secret clearances at different times), were not picked on in school (many were star athletes)and still, some managed to f up. Its something in ones character that allows someone to do the right thing even when no ones looking. I dont take up for the f ups in the links that are posted I just try to argue the point that its a small small percentage.
 
#1,255
#1,255
tim said:
You obviously were not in the military, but I'll entertain you for a second. The guys I worked with are all highly educated, passed extensive back ground checks (secret to top secret clearances at different times), were not picked on in school (many were star athletes)and still, some managed to f up. Its something in ones character that allows someone to do the right thing even when no ones looking. I dont take up for the f ups in the links that are posted I just try to argue the point that its a small small percentage.
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Tim, just accept the fact we're mentally challenged morons that have a propensity towards an authoritarian mentality.

(too many big words?)
 
#1,258
#1,258
Grand Vol said:
Cute OC...

Some of you folks have problems with context. Need I explain further about said link and the way it fits into the last paragraph I mentioned?
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I read it. Cop enters someone's back yard at 1:30 in the morning, in a neighborhood where his sister has said there is gang violence. Owner tells him to leave, defends himself with a bat and sicks a dog on officer.

I'm still confused what that has to do with no-knock warrants where multiple officers in riot gear kick doors in, screaming and threatening.

But that's cool. You've clarified. I concede. I guess I'll just ask how you are with context, since I multi-quoted it. I'll ask if you can understand why I came to my conclusions per your meaning, having reread the context of your post.
 
#1,260
#1,260
Grand Vol said:
And was that passive or active voice? VOL, GRAND never can get those two right.
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Active voice is what the PoPo use when describing a criminal's conduct.

i.e. -- "The perp shot at me."

Passive voice is what you write when you screw up.

i.e. -- "The gun went off and the family's dog was killed."

It should come natural from now on.

:)
 
#1,262
#1,262
rjd970 said:
Outside of the major crimes stuff, it seems to have become nothing more than an arm of the state to protect tax income and generate revenue through BS tickets.
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As someone who has spent the entire morning in court for arraignment, I can attest to this fact.
 
#1,263
#1,263
Orange_Crush said:
Active voice is what the PoPo use when describing a criminal's conduct.

i.e. -- "The perp shot at me."

Passive voice is what you write when you screw up.

i.e. -- "The gun went off and the family's dog was killed."

It should come natural from now on.

:)
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Must suck when you see rainbows.
 
#1,264
#1,264
Orange_Crush said:
I read it. Cop enters someone's back yard at 1:30 in the morning, in a neighborhood where his sister has said there is gang violence. Owner tells him to leave, defends himself with a bat and sicks a dog on officer.

I'm still confused what that has to do with no-knock warrants where multiple officers in riot gear kick doors in, screaming and threatening.

But that's cool. You've clarified. I concede. I guess I'll just ask how you are with context, since I multi-quoted it. I'll ask if you can understand why I came to my conclusions per your meaning, having reread the context of your post.
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Basic writing structure, two paragraphs, two points to consider...

I'm not always for no-knocks (in case you lost it in the clutter in this thread). I think they have a place and a time but are way overused IMO. But on a legitimate raid, knock or no knock, if an animal becomes aggressive, the police have every right to defend themselves from attack by said animal.

As to the point of overly aggressive dogs, the article didn't state the individual told them to leave. Expletives were passed, said individual wielded a baseball bat, allegedly turned dog loose on the police that were there for a welfare check and nothing more. Point being that some people do have overly aggressive dogs that are trained to attack. And when (allegedly) the owner lets go of a leash and tells said dog to attack and it makes a threatening move towards officers doing a welfare check...

There's always more facts to be known in this case obviously.
 
#1,265
#1,265
hog88 said:
As someone who has spent the entire morning in court for arraignment, I can attest to this fact.
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As someone who has to go to court sometimes 3-4 times as a witness to the same perp before they get convicted but have their felony theft dropped to a misdemeanor I can attest to this as well.
 
#1,267
#1,267
tim said:
You obviously were not in the military, but I'll entertain you for a second. The guys I worked with are all highly educated, passed extensive back ground checks (secret to top secret clearances at different times), were not picked on in school (many were star athletes)and still, some managed to f up. Its something in ones character that allows someone to do the right thing even when no ones looking. I dont take up for the f ups in the links that are posted I just try to argue the point that its a small small percentage.
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Not surprised GV jumped on this.

What is with all the "I know this, I've done this, I worked with these people" arguments? Its ridiculous.

If somebody wanted to argue with me that skydiving is dangerous, I'm not going to tell them I'm solo certified and have experience, know the training, and know instructors and I know it's safe....I'm saying look at the F'n odds of something bad happening, or look at the facts.

I'm sure tim you work with extremely qualified people that are top notch, and I'm sure GV knows LE. I'm not questioning your personal experiences, I'm questioning the system as a whole. Your personal experience doesn't mean jack ****.
 
#1,268
#1,268
CNCVol88 said:
As someone who has to go to court sometimes 3-4 times as a witness to the same perp before they get convicted but have their felony theft dropped to a misdemeanor I can attest to this as well.
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Quit arresting him. Our jails are full. Did you knock? Were you bullied? Drugs should be legalized.


Sincerely,

The politics forum
 
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#1,269
#1,269
tim said:
Quit arresting him. Our jails are full. Did you knock? Were you bullied? Drugs should be legalized.


Sincerely,

The politics forum
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Hey I just do a citizens arrest until you and grand come and violate their rights. :)

Edit: I did have a couple that ran on me this morning and they left the bag that that they used to conceal Merchandise sitting there and it had parole information for both of them in it so I got that going for me.. And I had already apprehended one a few months ago.
 
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#1,270
#1,270
Grand Vol said:
Basic writing structure, two paragraphs, two points to consider...

I'm not always for no-knocks (in case you lost it in the clutter in this thread). I think they have a place and a time but are way overused IMO. But on a legitimate raid, knock or no knock, if an animal becomes aggressive, the police have every right to defend themselves from attack by said animal.

As to the point of overly aggressive dogs, the article didn't state the individual told them to leave. Expletives were passed, said individual wielded a baseball bat, allegedly turned dog loose on the police that were there for a welfare check and nothing more. Point being that some people do have overly aggressive dogs that are trained to attack. And when (allegedly) the owner lets go of a leash and tells said dog to attack and it makes a threatening move towards officers doing a welfare check...

There's always more facts to be known in this case obviously.
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Actually GV, you and I are probably pretty close on the no-knock issue. I think they have a purpose, but are incredibly abused. And I believe if an owner sicks a dog on police, the police should protect themselves.

Where you and I will diverge is that I believe that until the justice system shows that they can responsibly use no-knocks, and better legislation is passed to make sure they are not so heavily abused, no-knocks should be banned. Period.

The shocking frequency of screw-ups is appalling and without excuse.

And the fact that someone like me, a God-fearing, law-abiding, patriotic citizen that has always supported LEO, feels this way, should tell you something about how bad the perception of LEO has gotten.

It seems that on a large scale, LEO has forgotten that they are there to serve us, and the perception is that you spit on our rights. The perception is that you are looking for every loophole you can find to bypass those rights. The perception is (back to no-knocks) that all these screw-ups are happening and you guys are still abusing the system, so you must not care very much about the citizens you're supposed to be protecting and serving.

It's LEOs image problem. It's up to LEO to fix it.
 
#1,271
#1,271
rjd970 said:
Not surprised GV jumped on this.

What is with all the "I know this, I've done this, I worked with these people" arguments? Its ridiculous.

If somebody wanted to argue with me that skydiving is dangerous, I'm not going to tell them I'm solo certified and have experience, know the training, and know instructors and I know it's safe....I'm saying look at the F'n odds of something bad happening, or look at the facts.

I'm sure tim you work with extremely qualified people that are top notch, and I'm sure GV knows LE. I'm not questioning your personal experiences, I'm questioning the system as a whole. Your personal experience doesn't mean jack ****.
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I am part of the "system". How else would you, as someone who is clueless (on this subject, you sound like you're well rounded) gather information on a subject other than to speak to those familiar with the subject. Again, I do not condone bad behavior, I despise it. I also despise people who generalize and lump. Are all Germans bad? No of course not. I realize the irony in that question, but want to point out that behind every bad cop theres one who arrested him.
 
#1,272
#1,272
rjd970 said:
Not surprised GV jumped on this.

What is with all the "I know this, I've done this, I worked with these people" arguments? Its ridiculous.

If somebody wanted to argue with me that skydiving is dangerous, I'm not going to tell them I'm solo certified and have experience, know the training, and know instructors and I know it's safe....I'm saying look at the F'n odds of something bad happening, or look at the facts.

I'm sure tim you work with extremely qualified people that are top notch, and I'm sure GV knows LE. I'm not questioning your personal experiences, I'm questioning the system as a whole. Your personal experience doesn't mean jack ****.
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You're the one that passed judgment on an entire profession because you personally believe it's overloaded with dimwits and losers. And I disagree because your personal opinions don't mean jack **** since you haven't worked in the field or received training in such.
 
#1,273
#1,273
tim said:
You obviously were not in the military, but I'll entertain you for a second. The guys I worked with are all highly educated, passed extensive back ground checks (secret to top secret clearances at different times), were not picked on in school (many were star athletes)and still, some managed to f up. Its something in ones character that allows someone to do the right thing even when no ones looking. I dont take up for the f ups in the links that are posted I just try to argue the point that its a small small percentage.
Click to expand...
I totally agree that it's a very small percentage. All I'm arguing is that it only takes one encounter with the one bad apple on the force to ruin a person's life. And I did serve in the USAF from 88-91.
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#1,274
#1,274
rjd970 said:
Still waiting on you to set me straight instead of avoiding the question.

Seriously, what are the educational requirements to be a regular police officer? Methinks a little bit higher standards across the board....educational, physical, aptitude, background, etc might fix some of the shenanigans.
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I do have a question about this. Is there any upper limit on how extremely obese an officer can be? Serious question.
 
#1,275
#1,275
tim said:
I am part of the "system". How else would you, as someone who is clueless (on this subject, you sound like you're well rounded) gather information on a subject other than to speak to those familiar with the subject. Again, I do not condone bad behavior, I despise it. I also despise people who generalize and lump. Are all Germans bad? No of course not. I realize the irony in that question, but want to point out that behind every bad cop theres one who arrested him.
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Well... Just spit-ballin' here, so bear with me... But you could post links to LEO job qualifications, etc...

And behind most cops that arrest bad cops, there's a news article sitting on a chief of police's desk and a secretary saying, "You have another call, sir..."
 
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