To Protect and to Serve...

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#651
#651
Grand Vol said:
I agree in principle, but there's a lot of blame that can be spread around on this one.

Surveillance team, leader, whomever gave the green light to enter, person tossing the grenade...long list of folks.
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IMHO the best place to start is that the use of "no knocks" of the kind cited be reduced by about 97% across the board.
 
#652
#652
hndog609 said:
IMHO the best place to start is that the use of "no knocks" of the kind cited be reduced by about 97% across the board.
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I can't disagree. I think the whole no knock warrants tend to be way overused and/or the threat posed by the individuals/locations listed on the warrants is overstated.
 
#653
#653
Grand Vol said:
I can't disagree. I think the whole no knock warrants tend to be way overused and/or the threat posed by the individuals/locations listed on the warrants is overstated.
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You dont need it until you need it. Pretty rare occurance that something this horrific happens.
 
#654
#654
tim said:
You dont need it until you need it. Pretty rare occurance that something this horrific happens.
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I don't disagree, but at the same time a lot of the "safety" concerns over the whole no knock warrants and entries are overstated. I understand officer safety just as much as you do, but the surveillance team in this case should have picked up on the fact the perp wasn't at home.

Of course there was no way of knowing for certain where the family members were located in the residence exactly, but does apprehension of a suspected dealer in question require a distraction device unless it's known he is armed and dangerous and poses an immediate threat to the team?

It doesn't happen that often sure, but you and I both know that the SWAT and other high risk emergency tactical teams were not formed for this mission in the beginning. Barricaded high risk suspects, hostage rescue, CT ops, sure. Serving criminal warrants on suspected drug dealers? Not so much unless the situation is deemed high risk. And I've seen nothing to indicate this situation should have been deemed high risk to call out a tactical team. And really, this is not specific to this instance since I've seen tac teams used in situations often enough to know it happens too often and generally is overkill.

However, departments pay good money for the teams and they have to justify the budget somehow, so they end up getting used in situations like this which is like using a nuclear bomb to destroy a mosquito. And you and I both know it.
 
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#656
#656
All for a drug dealer. Guess this is what you get when cops want to play navy seals.

If the war on drugs wasn't so lucrative for both sides someone might realize it's a worthless battle
 
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#657
#657
I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the family using the baby's crib with it in there to barricade the door. Were they doing that simply out of stupidity or were they using their baby as a shield of sorts should anyone ever try to break in?
 
#658
#658
davethevol said:
I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the family using the baby's crib with it in there to barricade the door. Were they doing that simply out of stupidity or were they using their baby as a shield of sorts should anyone ever try to break in?
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Where did it say the crib was a barricade? Sounds like they were all stuffed into one room sleeping.

Wouldn't matter anyways since decent police work would have shown their suspect wasn't even there at the time
 
#659
#659
utvolpj said:
Where did it say the crib was a barricade? Sounds like they were all stuffed into one room sleeping.

Wouldn't matter anyways since decent police work would have shown their suspect wasn't even there at the time
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There was one article that stated it was barricaded at the door and that when the police couldn't open the door because of the crib they tossed the flash grenade. That's how it landed it right in the crib.
 
#660
#660
davethevol said:
There was one article that stated it was barricaded at the door and that when the police couldn't open the door because of the crib they tossed the flash grenade. That's how it landed it right in the crib.
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There were 5 other people in the room plus the crib. Odds are that "barricade" was simply the only open floor space
 
#661
#661
Tyranny of riches. We have SWAT teams in nearly every police department around the country. Even our local regional department with 14 officers have SWAT training and equipment and could easily get a judge to give them no knock warrant. When you have a hammer, you look for excuses to use it.

We should legislate the number of SWAT teams and keep them at a certain level(i.e. county, certain size city etc). There should be a very deliberate process for their use and that should include a risk assessment of collateral damage and a "return on investment" assessment. If we had fewer teams, we would never see them used for small drug dealers or other petty crimes, and we would see their effectiveness increase while their collateral damage would decrease.
 
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#662
#662
YorkVol said:
Tyranny of riches. We have SWAT teams in nearly every police department around the country. Even our local regional department with 14 officers have SWAT training and equipment and could easily get a judge to give them no knock warrant. When you have a hammer, you look for excuses to use it.
We should legislate the number of SWAT teams and keep them at a certain level(i.e. county, certain size city etc). There should be a very deliberate process for their use and that should include a risk assessment of collateral damage and a "return on investment" assessment. If we had fewer teams, we would never see them used for small drug dealers or other petty crimes, and we would see their effectiveness increase while their collateral damage would decrease.
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:good!:

Just wait until they get tired of all of those surplus armored vehicles sitting around collecting dust.
 
#663
#663
utvolpj said:
There were 5 other people in the room plus the crib. Odds are that "barricade" was simply the only open floor space
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That's possible. I've read at least one article where it wasn't presented that way.
 
#664
#664
hog88 said:
:good!:

Just wait until they get tired of all of those surplus armored vehicles sitting around collecting dust.
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I bet they won't. I'm sure martial law will be declared in the next few years and they will get to use all sorts stuff against civilians.
 
#666
#666
davethevol said:
I bet they won't. I'm sure martial law will be declared in the next few years and they will get to use all sorts stuff against civilians.
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When martial law is declared the police will have the same ammount of authority as the rest of us. Those will be real soldiers breaking down your doors, not wannabes.
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#668
#668
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#675
#675
Toujours Pret said:
Yeah, the vicious weimeraner deserved it, when Johnny Law was trespassing. F that noise,
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Sorry ma'ma, can't search for your child. Don't want to go traipsing through a backyard when your kid is missing.

Have a nice day, give us a call if you find them.
 
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