To Protect and to Serve II

#851
#851
orangeblood79 said:
Nope. Believe it or not, those of us in "the most immoral profession" can have interactions with complete a-holes and not "beat them up" or even threaten to beat them up.


...and I'm sorry that you live in a time where Americans have the most independence and freedom to be who they are, be with who they want to be with and practice whatever doctrine or dogma they feel like, more than any other time in history, but still moan about "not being free." You're free to do whatever the crap you feel like, just don't complain when you have to reap the consequences.
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It seems we disagree on a fundamental level. To me freedom isn't surrendering (by force) half of your income to the government. It isn't a government telling me what I can or cannot do with my person as I see fit as long as I'm not hurting anyone else.

If we're to have this system, there has to be a massive overhaul of the criminal code. We have almost 2.5 million people in prison. That's tops anywhere else in the world.

So as a cop, I'll ask you a few questions, have you ever enforced a law that you didn't agree with or conflicted with your conscience?

Also, can one person or any group of people grant a person or any group of people a right or rights that they themselves do not have?

Where does the government get its validity? Don't say the constitution, any group of people could scribble something down on paper and declare themselves to be a government.
 
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#852
#852
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
It seems we disagree on a fundamental level. To me freedom isn't surrendering (by force) half of your income to the government. It isn't a government telling me what I can or cannot do with my person as I see fit as long as I'm not hurting anyone else.

If we're to have this system, there has to be a massive overhaul of the criminal code. We have almost 2.5 million people in prison. That's tops anywhere else in the world.

So as a cop, I'll ask you a few questions, have you ever enforced a law that you didn't agree with or conflicted with your conscience?

Also, can one person or any group of people grant a person or any group of people a right or rights that they themselves do not have?

Where does the government get its validity? Don't say the constitution, any group of people could scribble something down on paper and declare themselves to be a government.
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I don't see the point in thinking about it from that viewpoint....... Even if the United States govt fell apart and it became anarchy.... Within 15-20 years and probably much sooner it would evolve into a new form of govt with new rules and regulations.
 
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#853
#853
volbeast33 said:
I don't see the point in thinking about it from that viewpoint....... Even if the United States govt fell apart and it became anarchy.... Within 15-20 years and probably much sooner it would evolve into a new form of govt with new rules and regulations.
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"Belief in "authority" serves as a mental crutch for people seeking to escape the responsibility involved with being a thinking human being."
 
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#854
#854
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
It seems we disagree on a fundamental level. To me freedom isn't surrendering (by force) half of your income to the government. It isn't a government telling me what I can or cannot do with my person as I see fit as long as I'm not hurting anyone else.

If we're to have this system, there has to be a massive overhaul of the criminal code. We have almost 2.5 million people in prison. That's tops anywhere else in the world.

So as a cop, I'll ask you a few questions, have you ever enforced a law that you didn't agree with or conflicted with your conscience?

Also, can one person or any group of people grant a person or any group of people a right or rights that they themselves do not have?

Where does the government get its validity? Don't say the constitution, any group of people could scribble something down on paper and declare themselves to be a government.
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I'm done arguing with you. You spit on the Constitution as if it was just some piece of f'ing paper yet, it's the very foundation upon which you're freedom lies to say stupid, completely disrespectful sh** like this.

Grow the F up and be a man. If you don't like or want to pay taxes--DON'T. Go live off the land in the wilderness somewhere. Kill for your food. Get your own water. Build your own house, or whatever shelter you can manage and boom....off the grid, no taxes, no more b*tching...but I highly doubt the last part.
 
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#855
#855
orangeblood79 said:
I'm done arguing with you. You spit on the Constitution as if it was just some piece of f'ing paper yet, it's the very foundation upon which you're freedom lies to say stupid, completely disrespectful sh** like this.

Grow the F up and be a man. If you don't like or want to pay taxes--DON'T. Go live off the land in the wilderness somewhere. Kill for your food. Get your own water. Build your own house, or whatever shelter you can manage and, viola'....off the grid, no taxes, no more b*tching...but I highly doubt the last part.
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So you won't be answering any of the questions then? Lol typical

Btw the government gets their supposed validity by threats of violence.

Sacred cows make the best hamburgers

Read a book.
 
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#856
#856
Grand Vol said:
If one wants to create the strawman of "no other profession kills and gets away with it" then absolutely, the comparison is valid. Even on the low side, over 100,000 people are killed every year by the medical profession:

Doctors Are The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US, Killing 225,000 People Every Year

ALL THESE ARE DEATHS PER YEAR:

  • 12,000 -- unnecessary surgery
  • 7,000 -- medication errors in hospitals
    [*]20,000 -- other errors in hospitals
    [*]80,000 -- infections in hospitals
    [*]106,000 -- non-error, negative effects of drugs

(I dropped the side effects of drugs since that's something that typically cannot be foreseen)

How Many Die From Medical Mistakes In U.S. Hospitals? : Shots - Health News : NPR

Compare that to the roughly 1,200 people killed by police, I'd say that ledger is way imbalanced. And how many of those medical professionals are brought to criminal trial?

970,000 doctors in the US alone

765,000 sworn officers in the US

Absolutely a valid comparison.
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How in the world is an infection (hospital staff sanitation issue) or medication not working (pharmaceutical company issue) the fault of the doctor?
 
#857
#857
Grand Vol said:
And you wonder why your medical insurance is so high? It's not just from the uninsured, but from the payouts to civil litigation from wrongful death. Just this firm alone averaged $40,000,000 a year from medical malpractice suits:

How Much Is A Wrongful Death Lawsuit Worth?

$2 billion over 50 years. Just one firm.

Here's a CNN article that says 10,739 lawsuits for medical malpractice had claims paid. On average $400,000 per case. Over $4 billion a year in settlements and lawsuits to the medical industry.

Harmed in the hospital? Should you sue? - CNN.com

Let that one sink in before you go all An-Cap about your tax dollars being paid for "armed thugs."
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gain, sounds like a lawyer problem.
 
#858
#858
orangeblood79 said:
People don't volunteer to die when they go into surgery. There's a risk associated with it, sure, but they don't go in wanting to be killed.

How many times in a year is there a suicide by cop incident?
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There's a big difference in a doctor possibly making a mistake about treating cancer or some other illness where the treatment and cure are not clearly known or defined in an attempt to save that person's life and a cop escalating a routine traffic stop into a civilian losing their life or liberties all because the cop chose to violate clearly known and defined rights of that civilian.
 
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#860
#860
You know Ras, you might make a better argument if you'd take the time to read everything instead of focusing on selective words through the entirety of the post.
 
#861
#861
Grand Vol said:
Did you miss the words "medical profession"?
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Compare that to the roughly 1,200 people killed by police, I'd say that ledger is way imbalanced. And how many of those medical professionals are brought to criminal trial?

970,000 doctors in the US alone

765,000 sworn officers in the US
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You're moving the goal posts. You were attempting to compare cops to doctors, but then skewed the numbers in your favor by lumping in "medical profession".

If you want to use data about the medical profession as a whole, wouldn't a better example be to compare that to the prison industrial complex, as a whole?

You may begin to see data then that stregthens the argument for An-Caps even more then...
 
#862
#862
Rasputin_Vol said:
You're moving the goal posts. You were attempting to compare cops to doctors, but then skewed the numbers in your favor by lumping in "medical profession".

If you want to use data about the medical profession as a whole, wouldn't a better example be to compare that to the prison industrial complex, as a whole?

You may begin to see data then that stregthens the argument for An-Caps even more then...
Click to expand...

Actually, I'm comparing the medical profession as a whole, and comparing the body count as a whole.

100,000 people are killed by the medical profession. 1,200 are killed by cops. And of course you missed where I removed the medication numbers because you just can't read. You can play this strawman argument and slice it any way you want, but the number are still going to come up sadly lacking in my favor.

Moving the goal posts, lol. You're a sad little man.
 
#863
#863
orangeblood79 said:
Go on a ride along in an urban setting and get some f'ing perspective because you have no f'ing clue what you're talking about.

I've been on welfare checks, traffic stops, domestics, CHILD CUSTODY SITUATIONS..each with assh*les who were armed. And have yet to have to use deadly force (thank God).

A girl I graduated the academy with was shot in the face because of a public drunk call.

So take your bullsh*t elsewhere.
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Why is govt involved with welfare in the first place? And howmany of the family or domestic issues are made worse by family court intervention, with the cops being the enforcement arm of the law? Let's not even get another discussion going about some of these ridiculous traffic stops.

Also, I really hope a "welfare check" isn't what I fear it may be...
 
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#868
#868
orangeblood79 said:
I'm done arguing with you. You spit on the Constitution as if it was just some piece of f'ing paper yet, it's the very foundation upon which you're freedom lies to say stupid, completely disrespectful sh** like this.

Grow the F up and be a man. If you don't like or want to pay taxes--DON'T. Go live off the land in the wilderness somewhere. Kill for your food. Get your own water. Build your own house, or whatever shelter you can manage and boom....off the grid, no taxes, no more b*tching...but I highly doubt the last part.
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He spit on the constitution (in your words) and cops violate it (my words).
 
#869
#869
Grand Vol said:
Actually, I'm comparing the medical profession as a whole, and comparing the body count as a whole.

100,000 people are killed by the medical profession. 1,200 are killed by cops. And of course you missed where I removed the medication numbers because you just can't read. You can play this strawman argument and slice it any way you want, but the number are still going to come up sadly lacking in my favor.

Moving the goal posts, lol. You're a sad little man.
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You did it again... comparing the entire medical profession to cops.

Why not doctors vs cops or medical profession vs prison industrial complex?
 
#871
#871
Rasputin_Vol said:
You did it again... comparing the entire medical profession to cops.

Why not doctors vs cops or medical profession vs prison industrial complex?
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Why not keep ignoring the base numbers like you keep doing?

100,000+ killed by the medical profession.

1,200 killed by cops.

You try to avoid the baseline numbers and I'm even omitting 100,000 dead off that list since sometimes medication conditions are out of control.

Classic troll tactic. Ignore the evidence smacking you in the face and try to divert attention onto minutia or numbers you just can't prove. "Prison industrial complex." Okay, just how many people have they killed?
 
#872
#872
Again, the cops/doctors comparison is silly. One is a voluntary association mostly through contract. The other is nothing but force.

You cannot accurately estimate how many people are killed in the prison industrial complex, as no records are kept or at least aren't available. (typical) Just as until recently no records are kept about how many people are killed by cops.
 
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#873
#873
Grand Vol said:
Why not keep ignoring the base numbers like you keep doing?

100,000+ killed by the medical profession.

1,200 killed by cops.

You try to avoid the baseline numbers and I'm even omitting 100,000 dead off that list since sometimes medication conditions are out of control.

Classic troll tactic. Ignore the evidence smacking you in the face and try to divert attention onto minutia or numbers you just can't prove. "Prison industrial complex." Okay, just how many people have they killed?
Click to expand...

And you want to compare a misdiagnosis that ends in death to a clear violation of someone's rights that ends in death.
 
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#874
#874
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Again, the cops/doctors comparison is silly. One is a voluntary association mostly through contract. The other is nothing but force.

You cannot accurately estimate how many people are killed in the prison industrial complex, as no records are kept or at least aren't available. (typical) Just as until recently no records are kept about how many people are killed by cops.
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It's only silly because you deem it to be silly. The idea was brought forth that no other profession kills people and gets away with it. To which I countered with facts showing the lie of that statement.

You deem it silly because you have no reliable argument to counter the facts of the matter.
 
#875
#875
Grand Vol said:
It's only silly because you deem it to be silly. The idea was brought forth that no other profession kills people and gets away with it. To which I countered with facts showing the lie of that statement.

You deem it silly because you have no reliable argument to counter the facts of the matter.
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Because it's stupid on its very face. The two do not even remotely relate.

For an equal assessment, let's compare people killed by the Detroit police department and those killed by the threat management center.
 
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