‘23 TN RB DeSean Bishop (Coastal Carolina commit)

GUNTERSVOL

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All that's fine. I have zero clue about any specific player and their usage. There's a positive correlation between usage and injury. I never made any other argument, but if anyone wants to argue against that then they can continue yelling at clouds if they want to
In a previous post you supported this by saying the risk for a RB is in being tackled. So all carries are not created equal, and a higher percentage of his carries do not end in tackles along the sidelines and another large quantity of carries end with him dictating glancing blows as he goes down. Very few significant or even average contact in most of his games, by design.
 

jtipto10

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In a previous post you supported this by saying the risk for a RB is in being tackled. So all carries are not created equal, and a higher percentage of his carries do not end in tackles along the sidelines and another large quantity of carries end with him dictating glancing blows as he goes down. Very few significant or even average contact in most of his games, by design.
I mean, everything is on a bell curve. If he slides before every tackle then yeah, of course he's gonna be on the lower end of that curve. It literally changes nothing about what I said. More carries are directly correlated to higher injury risk. I'm not sure how plainly I can say this, and yet people still seem to be getting confused. Every set of data is related to some sort of standardized population. If a single individual falls outside of that it's not evidence that the data is incorrect
 

GUNTERSVOL

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I mean, everything is on a bell curve. If he slides before every tackle then yeah, of course he's gonna be on the lower end of that curve. It literally changes nothing about what I said. More carries are directly correlated to higher injury risk. I'm not sure how plainly I can say this, and yet people still seem to be getting confused. Every set of data is related to some sort of standardized population. If a single individual falls outside of that it's not evidence that the data is incorrect
How many carries have been missed due to exceeding a statistical average? I might buy it if you calculate the injury data for each RB. Everybody's bones, ligaments and cartilage is not created equal. Same for the discipline used for strength training and nutrition. I doubt his methods for mitigating those risks at Karns work at the next level and he would have to change them and his risk will go up. I am sure there are stats for the number of carries between non-contact season ending injuries, but I don't see a lot of value in them either.
 

jtipto10

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How many carries have been missed due to exceeding a statistical average? I might buy it if you calculate the injury data for each RB. Everybody's bones, ligaments and cartilage is not created equal. Same for the discipline used for strength training and nutrition. I doubt his methods for mitigating those risks at Karns work at the next level and he would have to change them and his risk will go up. I am sure there are stats for the number of carries between non-contact season ending injuries, but I don't see a lot of value in them either.
So stats are worthless in the individual level. Cool 👍
 

GUNTERSVOL

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Anybody go to his game last night? Had a really bad streaming night trying to check in on my cheap computer. But the last couple of plays were bizarre. The other team took the lead with .7 seconds on the clock. Kicked a squib kick that was smothered at the 50 by a Karns player while already down. The officials had not a clue what to do. They seemingly declared the game over when the Carter coach had the floor, then they convened for a while for a while and looked to spot the ball at the 50, then they seemed to be calling for a do over kick, then they finally lined up at the 50 to run one play. Of course fate really jumped on board and the QB ran around for a while and then uncorked a hail Mary to the endzone where several players elevated, the ball seemed to be controlled by someone one yard deep in the endzone, they fell to the ground in what appeared to possibly be joint possession and rolled around for a while, until you guessed it, our star emerged from the pile raising the ball above his head. Not a lot of camera angles, but I did not see a signal for catch (TD), interception , or incomplete pass, the did not acquire the ball and do the game over thing with the ball above the head, all I could see was them running off the field, and they broadcast ended 5 seconds later. SO.... just wondered if there was anybody there that could have seen more of the play or a call or heard an explanation. Wide angle cameras are not great in these situations.

First screenshot shows the Karns players seeing something.

1664016621780.png


I cannot see who actually possessed the ball touching the ground first, but I did not see the ball hit or not hit the ground, BUT after the scrum Bishop emerges with the ball. Sure would like to have seen one of the three valid signals, and maybe it was out of camera range. I would add that all the nearby players of both teams were looking to see who had possession and there was not celebration of an incomplete pass by the defense at all.

1664017023144.png


Edited to add one more shot.... which crack official do you think made the call? See any close enough to do so? On a pretty predictable chunk it to the endzone play.

1664017836530.png
 
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cdr4ut

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I was there. A Carter player had the ball 1st, then Bishop got his hands on it, then they both land in the end zone and fight for the ball for several seconds, then Bishop gets up with the ball. The refs gave no signal of td, interception or incomplete, they just ran off the field. IMO the Carter player had possession 1st, thus I thought it was an interception, this is coming from a Karns supporter. The biggest issue I had with it was the refs gave no signal as to what the ruling was they just left.
 

Volnatic

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I was there. A Carter player had the ball 1st, then Bishop got his hands on it, then they both land in the end zone and fight for the ball for several seconds, then Bishop gets up with the ball. The refs gave no signal of td, interception or incomplete, they just ran off the field. IMO the Carter player had possession 1st, thus I thought it was an interception, this is coming from a Karns supporter. The biggest issue I had with it was the refs gave no signal as to what the ruling was they just left.
So…who won
 

GUNTERSVOL

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I was there. A Carter player had the ball 1st, then Bishop got his hands on it, then they both land in the end zone and fight for the ball for several seconds, then Bishop gets up with the ball. The refs gave no signal of td, interception or incomplete, they just ran off the field. IMO the Carter player had possession 1st, thus I thought it was an interception, this is coming from a Karns supporter. The biggest issue I had with it was the refs gave no signal as to what the ruling was they just left.
Thanks for the response.

Don’t know HS rules, but in college if the ball is in joint possession WHILE IN THE AIR, the catch goes to the the first one to touch the ground. Don’t know how they could tell from what I saw, but possible.

I was concerned that no official was in the picture, and that not one came to see who has the ball IF IF IF there was no clear incomplete pass call out of camera range. We have all seen those calls made to see who has the ball on the bottom of a pile. If not ruled an interception or incomplete tie goes to the passing team if both have the ball. Once again I don’t know HS RULES.
 

Tennessee Golfer

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Thanks for the response.

Don’t know HS rules, but in college if the ball is in joint possession WHILE IN THE AIR, the catch goes to the the first one to touch the ground. Don’t know how they could tell from what I saw, but possible.

I was concerned that no official was in the picture, and that not one came to see who has the ball IF IF IF there was no clear incomplete pass call out of camera range. We have all seen those calls made to see who has the ball on the bottom of a pile. If not ruled an interception or incomplete tie goes to the passing team if both have the ball. Once again I don’t know HS RULES.
Simultaneous catch always goes to the offense in every level.
 

GUNTERSVOL

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Simultaneous catch always goes to the offense in every level.
Yes, so unless they both were in the air when both gained joint possession AND the defender was ruled to have completed a catch by returning to ground first, then it should have been a Karns TD if in continuous joint possession in the end zone. No call either way is just a bad look IF that is what really happened.
 

cdr4ut

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I did read the 5 Star Preps article on the game they stated it was ruled incomplete. Not sure how they know that, maybe they were able to talk to a ref following the game, because there was no signal.
 

cdr4ut

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The article also said the Karns qb was beyond the line of scrimmage when he threw it. I don't know if was or not as I couldn't tell, but there was no flag for it.
 

Tennessee Golfer

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Anybody go to his game last night? Had a really bad streaming night trying to check in on my cheap computer. But the last couple of plays were bizarre. The other team took the lead with .7 seconds on the clock. Kicked a squib kick that was smothered at the 50 by a Karns player while already down. The officials had not a clue what to do. They seemingly declared the game over when the Carter coach had the floor, then they convened for a while for a while and looked to spot the ball at the 50, then they seemed to be calling for a do over kick, then they finally lined up at the 50 to run one play. Of course fate really jumped on board and the QB ran around for a while and then uncorked a hail Mary to the endzone where several players elevated, the ball seemed to be controlled by someone one yard deep in the endzone, they fell to the ground in what appeared to possibly be joint possession and rolled around for a while, until you guessed it, our star emerged from the pile raising the ball above his head. Not a lot of camera angles, but I did not see a signal for catch (TD), interception , or incomplete pass, the did not acquire the ball and do the game over thing with the ball above the head, all I could see was them running off the field, and they broadcast ended 5 seconds later. SO.... just wondered if there was anybody there that could have seen more of the play or a call or heard an explanation. Wide angle cameras are not great in these situations.

First screenshot shows the Karns players seeing something.

View attachment 493569


I cannot see who actually possessed the ball touching the ground first, but I did not see the ball hit or not hit the ground, BUT after the scrum Bishop emerges with the ball. Sure would like to have seen one of the three valid signals, and maybe it was out of camera range. I would add that all the nearby players of both teams were looking to see who had possession and there was not celebration of an incomplete pass by the defense at all.

View attachment 493571


Edited to add one more shot.... which crack official do you think made the call? See any close enough to do so? On a pretty predictable chunk it to the endzone play.

View attachment 493577
Well the backjudge would be the only official back there and he’s in the middle of the field outside the camera shot.
 

GUNTERSVOL

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I did read the 5 Star Preps article on the game they stated it was ruled incomplete. Not sure how they know that, maybe they were able to talk to a ref following the game, because there was no signal.
I would like to hear an official say he saw the ball hit the ground. All the players seemed to be looking to see who had the ball and no celebration by defense and no disappointment but TD signals from offense and they were within feet of play. Not a clue on past LOS, but no flag is bad if true. Should hit the ground before the long pass did. Throwing only after a TD call would be weak.
 

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