'Tis the season: Guns ! Guns ! Guns!

Vol Main

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1. There is cheap American made ammunition. Winchester is not the only American manufacturer of ammunition.

2. While plenty of idiots will choose cheap, many enthusiasts will avoid cheap ammunition at all costs, and for good measure. Cleaning weapons is already a pain in the ass; cleaning weapons after firing cheap ass rounds is ridiculous.
I am not aware of inexpensive centerfire American rifle ammunition in today's market. That is why people are willing to use the dirtier and less accurate Russian stuff for target shooting. You might see someone turning loose some surplus for two or three times the cost of Russian, but don't hold your breath for that. BTW, commie guns are made to use the commie ammo. They can shoot Western bullets, but there are problems. The flip side is that American guns were not designed to shoot commie bullets. Some of them will do it, but again, there are problems.
 
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I am not aware of inexpensive centerfire American ammunition in today's market. That is why people are willing to use the dirtier and less accurate Russian stuff for target shooting. You might see someone turning loose some surplus for two or three times the cost of Russian, but don't hold your breath for that.

I can buy a 100-round box of .45 ACP for $40 and a 20-round box of 30-30 for $17. Buy in bulk and it's even cheaper.
 

Vol Main

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I can buy a 100-round box of .45 ACP for $40 and a 20-round box of 30-30 for $17. Buy in bulk and it's even cheaper.
.30-.30 is the cheapest American centerfire rifle ammo that I've seen. A good quality box of imports costs ten bucks. Try buying a box of American made 7.62 or .308. It ain't cheap. Generally, imported ammunition is significantly less expensive than American. That is why a lot of sport shooters mail order it in bulk for shooting paper targets.

I expect the Democrats to push for a ban on mail order ammunition. That would do nothing to prevent the terrible murders, but that is one of the first things they will try to do. Republicans might go along with it.
 
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dreVol

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.30-.30 is the cheapest American centerfire rifle ammo that I've seen. A box of imports cost ten bucks. Try buying a box of American made 7.62. It ain't cheap. Generally, imported ammunition is significantly less expensive than American. That is why a lot of shooters mail order it in bulk for shooting paper targets.

I expect the Democrats to push for a ban on mail order ammunition. That would do nothing to prevent the terrible murders, but that is one of the first things they will try to do. Republicans might go along with it.
so you're admitting that democrats will exploit this tragedy by introducing legislation that would have had zero impact preventing said tragedy? at least you're honest.
 

Vol Main

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so you're admitting that democrats will exploit this tragedy by introducing legislation that would have had zero impact preventing said tragedy? at least you're honest.
I am not admitting it; I am alleging it. Most of their proposals will have almost no effect on the murders. They will make costs go up for sport shooters, but higher costs won't top murderers.
 

PKT_VOL

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You and TRUT have modern liberalism confused with classical liberalism. The modern liberal supports government intervention in every aspect of life. That's how you get a leg up -- through government. You and TRUT are libertarian in that sense, not social liberals. Social liberals advocate the "social"/"collective" aspect of society (i.e. socialism), although there are several varieties of socialism.

Mises and Hayek understood this distinction, and I hope -- considering you both have strong educational backgrounds -- that both of you would, too.
I do understand this distinction; I have a political science minor.

However, we talk in general (public) political terminology on VN. The terminology you are citing is purely academic.

I catch enough flak for being "academic" already without using such terminology.
 

PKT_VOL

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I think we all know what's about to happen. Because a parent allowed her mentally ill child access to high capacity firearms, the Second Amendment rights of people who are not mentally ill will be infringed. The murders were so wrong and terrible that people feel something must change. Expect to see legislation banning certain types of guns, magazines, and ammunition sales.
Not even a ban on assault weapons ? Come on, that has plenty of support.
"Expect to see" is very different than passage of such legislation. It will almost certainly be pushed for and even presented in Congress, however it will not pass.
 

tim

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I am not admitting it; I am alleging it. Most of their proposals will have almost no effect on the murders. They will make costs go up for sport shooters, but higher costs won't top murderers.
You're a liar. Democrats want more regulation and since you're a democrat you want more regulation. See how that works.
 

tim

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You may as well put me on ignore and never read any of my posts again.
Why? Im not pissed, I disagree with you. I dont ignore things I dont agree with I can be swayed if convinced. I doubt you have the ability to convince very many of anything, but theres always an outside possibility.
 

Vol Main

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Why? Im not pissed, I disagree with you. I dont ignore things I dont agree with I can be swayed if convinced. I doubt you have the ability to convince very many of anything, but theres always an outside possibility.
My opposing many Republican policies does not make me a Democrat any more than my opposing many Democrat policies makes me a Republican. As far as I'm concerned, both national parties are crooked as a dog's hind legs. So kindly sway yourself to the fact that I am not a Democrat. I'm a pretty good authority on me, so the convincing should not be difficult.
 

Carl Pickens

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I am about to get lynched for this...

but Norway does not have a large African American and Latino population that is living near or below the poverty line.

Those two groups help inflate our numbers largely.

Then you throw in the white people near poverty and bingo we are number 1.
You'll be labeled but the truth is the truth
 

bluetickhound16

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Reload your own and outsave everybody.
This, but only to a point... I handload several different calibers but i use top grade components... The main reason I reload is to be able to precisely load my rounds to maximize accuracy. When I load 41 grains of Hodgdon 4895 into a .308 case with a Nosler 165g ballistic tip boattail, i know i can expect the same performance round after round.... The ONLY factory ammo i have come close to duplicating the accuracy i can achieve with my handloads is (surprisingly!!!) the Remington 150g Core Lokt .308. Everything else (in any caliber I reload) doesn't come close. The only exception i make for factory ammo is in my carry weapons... I din't need the legal headache of having to defend not only my decision to shoot but my ammo also... Using factory ammo should help avoid that hassle in the event I ever have to make that decision...
 

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