'Tis the season: Guns ! Guns ! Guns!

#351
#351
therealUT said:
If you want to get into a semantic debate, have at it. Both myself and plenty of my friends consider ourselves social liberals (hell, I live mere blocks away from Cambridge). While some also consider themselves fiscal liberals, they distinguish spending from non-intervention. Spending goes on the fiscal liberal side; non-intervention goes on the social side. There are certainly some social liberals who are also fiscal liberals. However, being a social liberal is not a logical correlative to being a fiscal liberal. These are independent and distinct notions.
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Agreed. I'm socially liberal...keep government out of my personal decisions in the bedroom and how I make moral decisions regarding a number of things. But I'm all for small government and fiscal conservatism. Liberals and conservatives tend to get a lot right on different issues, it just seems neither get everything right.
 
#352
#352
Our founding fathers established principles of government to preserve freedoms won by long and hard war.

Adam Lanza has undone them. His power is greater than theirs.
 
#354
#354
Gannon Goodson said:
True, but the two of those go hand in hand. You can't be socially liberal without being fiscally liberal. How else can you support the government welfare state without fiscal liberalism?
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therealUT said:
You can certainly be socially liberal without being fiscally liberal. Being socially liberal entails keeping the government out of the private affairs of individuals; it does not necessarily entail a welfare state.
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therealUT said:
If you want to get into a semantic debate, have at it. Both myself and plenty of my friends consider ourselves social liberals (hell, I live mere blocks away from Cambridge). While some also consider themselves fiscal liberals, they distinguish spending from non-intervention. Spending goes on the fiscal liberal side; non-intervention goes on the social side. There are certainly some social liberals who are also fiscal liberals. However, being a social liberal is not a logical correlative to being a fiscal liberal. These are independent and distinct notions.
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Thank you TRUT. You articulated our shared position better than I could have. :hi:
 
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#356
#356
PKT_VOL said:
Thank you TRUT. You articulated our shared position better than I could have. :hi:
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You and TRUT have modern liberalism confused with classical liberalism. The modern liberal supports government intervention in every aspect of life. That's how you get a leg up -- through government. You and TRUT are libertarian in that sense, not social liberals. Social liberals advocate the "social"/"collective" aspect of society (i.e. socialism), although there are several varieties of socialism.

Mises and Hayek understood this distinction, and I hope -- considering you both have strong educational backgrounds -- that both of you would, too.
 
#357
#357
Vol Main said:
Our founding fathers established principles of government to preserve freedoms won by long and hard war.

Adam Lanza has undone them. His power is greater than theirs.
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LOL

:lolabove:
 
#358
#358
panic.gif
 
#360
#360
PKT_VOL said:
?
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I think we all know what's about to happen. Because a parent allowed her mentally ill child access to high capacity firearms, the Second Amendment rights of people who are not mentally ill will be infringed. The murders were so wrong and terrible that people feel something must change. Expect to see legislation banning certain types of guns, magazines, and ammunition sales.
 
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#361
#361
Vol Main said:
I think we all know what's about to happen. Because a parent allowed her mentally ill child access to high capacity firearms, the Second Amendment rights of people who are not mentally ill will be infringed. The murders were so wrong and terrible that people feel something must change. Expect to see legislation banning certain types of guns, magazines, and ammunition sales.
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Expect to see legislation drafted; do not expect it to be passed.
 
#364
#364
lawgator1 said:
Not even a ban on assault weapons ? Come on, that has plenty of support.
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The magazine capacity part might actually be easier to enact though, particularly when handguns are considered. If you really look at it for all the histrionics some display towards so called "assault weapons" (which is in fact almost never used correctly BTW) the AR/AK/etc platforms really aren't statistically used very often in crimes. Still, hysteria and ignorance can make for another opportunity for those trying to bring back the so called Assault Weapons Ban.

Note I'm not really supportive of such efforts, merely my take on the matter.
 
#368
#368
therealUT said:
No. The House will not pass it.
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Legislation is already on the books which gives the President authority to ban importation of any firearm and ammunition. All he has to do is tell a secretary what he wants banned and then sign the document.

Except for shotguns, everything from China is already banned. Russia could be next. American content requirements on parts already restrict the importation of all military style AKs; they could be totally banned with one signature. If Russian imports are banned, target shooters will pay four or five times as much for American ammo, if they can find it. Scarcity will increase prices. If the only action is a ban on internet sales of ammunition, target shooting will become a very expensive hobby above .22 caliber. A mere hundred round trip to the firing range could cost well over a hundred dollars.
 
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#369
#369
Vol Main said:
Legislation is already on the books which gives the President authority to ban importation of any firearm and ammunition. All he has to do is tell a secretary what he wants banned and then sign the document.

Except for shotguns, everything from China is already banned. Russia could be next. American content requirements on parts already restrict the importation of all military style AKs; they could be totally banned with one signature. If Russian imports are banned, target shooters will pay four or five times as much for American ammo, if they can find it. Scarcity will increase prices. If the only action is a ban on internet sales of ammunition, target shooting will become a very expensive hobby above .22 caliber. A mere hundred round trip to the firing range could cost well over a hundred dollars.
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Most guns and ammo are made in the U.S., so I don't see how banning importation from foreign countries would have a significant effect on prices.
 
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#372
#372
therealUT said:
Great link...
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The information in that one post would require a lot of links. The fact that I've already covered the material doesn't make me Pepe's librarian, but I will give an example.

You can mail order a box of Russian 7.62 for under five bucks. High quality Russian soft point for hunting is available for under eight bucks. NATO quality Czech or Italian ranges around ten to thirteen bucks. If you walk into a store to buy a box of Winchester 7.62, expect to pay around twenty five bucks for FMJ or SP. That is three to five times more for the American made ammunition compared to Russian. The 7.62 is plentiful and inexpensive; that is one reason why shooters buy those guns. But foreign manufacturers also produce other sizes of ammunition for the American market, from .22 through .30-.06, etc.
 
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#373
#373
Vol Main said:
The information in that one post would require a lot of links. The fact that I've already covered the material doesn't make me Pepe's librarian, but I will give an example.

You can mail order a box of Russian 7.62 for under five bucks. High quality Russian soft point for hunting is available for under eight bucks. NATO quality Czech or Italian ranges around ten to thirteen bucks. If you walk into a store to buy a box of Winchester 7.62, expect to pay around twenty five bucks. That is three to five times more for the American made ammunition compared to Russian. The 7.62 is plentiful and inexpensive; that is one reason why shooters buy those guns. But foreign manufacturers also produce other sizes of ammunition for the American market, from .22 through .30-.06, etc.
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1. There is cheap American made ammunition. Winchester is not the only American manufacturer of ammunition.

2. While plenty of idiots will choose cheap, many enthusiasts will avoid cheap ammunition at all costs, and for good measure. Cleaning weapons is already a pain in the ass; cleaning weapons after firing cheap ass rounds is ridiculous.
 
#374
#374
TheDeeble said:
Assault weapons haven't been legal for the general population for decades.

You can get a license to own full auto weapons, but those are registered.
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national firearms act of 1934. the "gun control" group should be honest and admit that (a) they are willfully ignorant with respect to firearms and current regulations of firearms and/or (b) their end game is to prohibit law abiding citizens from owning firearms.
 
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#375
#375
Vol Main said:
The information in that one post would require a lot of links. The fact that I've already covered the material doesn't make me Pepe's librarian, but I will give an example.

You can mail order a box of Russian 7.62 for under five bucks. High quality Russian soft point for hunting is available for under eight bucks. NATO quality Czech or Italian ranges around ten to thirteen bucks. If you walk into a store to buy a box of Winchester 7.62, expect to pay around twenty five bucks for FMJ or SP. That is three to five times more for the American made ammunition compared to Russian. The 7.62 is plentiful and inexpensive; that is one reason why shooters buy those guns. But foreign manufacturers also produce other sizes of ammunition for the American market, from .22 through .30-.06, etc.
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Again, there is plenty of American-made ammo. So how would banning importation of foreign-made ammo have a significant impact on ammo prices?

All the ammo I buy is made in the U.S. and I have no problem affording it.
 
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