Tired of Comparing Dooley vs Butch

[Wylo]

Dooley was a winner, the current HC... not so much

You cannot be serious, didn't?

Please tell me you are just trolling.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Dooley had better hair. No homo.

Yeah.... if you are into the 12 year old boy from the 50's look.

No pedo.

 

[volfan002]

Wait... wasn't last year's OL junk? Weren't they infected with Dooley germs (or some idiocy along those lines)?


Dude. Jones has known this was coming since he took the job. I'm not against him in any way but don't fool yourself into thinking that there aren't coaches who would have made decisions that would have produced a better result right now than he made.


Yes you can. That O couldn't run the ball. They had a TE and two NFL caliber WR's. When Hunter went down... an O that flat laid it on a very good Jones coached Cincy team became easily defensible for most teams.


I didn't miss it. It has improved by about a TD per game so far. The problem.... is that it has not produced wins. I LOVE the stats part of football so I DO get some gratification out of seeing UT's D stats rank well against some great D's.

But the bottom line is wins.... not stats.


No. There isn't. All of the other things coaches do may look great but if they do not result in wins... they're meaningless. If wins didn't matter then poor ol' Charlie Weis should have coached ND forever. He was a champ on NSD. Ron Zook should have a street named for him at UF... he was an excellent recruiter. Mack Brown? He dominated Texas recruiting long after he started failing on the field.

The recruiting classes from 2005-2007 that effectively made up the team that Fulmer got fired with in 2008... ranked 3rd, 23rd, and 5th.

He didn't get fired for failing to have good rankings on NSD. He didn't get fired for not putting guys in the NFL. He got fired because the net result of his efforts was losing games.... many of them close ones too.


Deny all you want but here's another for you.... after his first 16 regular season games the abject failure of a HC Dooley was 9-7. Jones is 7-10.


There are unfortunately WAY too many ways that the results produced by the two CAN be compared.

I don't like it. I don't want it. But I'm not going to pretend that it isn't true.



He didn't inherit a situation any worse than Kiffin or Dooley.... much less Freeze or Mullen.



No magic wand required... just the right coach doing the right things and making the right decisions to produce the right results.

Which is what this staff is doing. Dooley never did that.

I have said MANY positive things about what he's done. His off-season development program to me is more impressive than his recruiting... everywhere except on the OL. Right now, the OL is a MAJOR shortcoming... and the staff owns it.

I've never said that last years o-line was bad. I have openly scoffed at people who said it was. I have defended last seasons o-line on air and on message boards. So that is a moot point to your argument.

Known what was coming? That the o-line was going to be bad? Well, yeah. And the staff is doing everything they can to fix it. The bummer of the the 2014 class is that Blair hasn't worked out, but out of the top 10 JUCO tackles taken in 2014 only 1 or 2 are starting.

O couldn't run the ball in 2011 mostly because it was a line that had one upper classmen. Dallas Thomas. Also, Poole was average at best. No vision when there were holes. The offense took a nose dive against UGA when Worley got hurt. They only played one game between UF and then, Buffalo. He didn't come back until the Vandy game. Simms and Worley took over the QB duties. You can't sit here and say that losing 1 receiver out of a group of really good pass catchers has the same impact as losing the starting QB. That just doesn't make any sense.

You said that you couldn't see on field improvements based on offensive stats. You didn't say anything about defense. So yeah, in your post you missed it. That is on field improvements. Wins will come with the roster improves across the lines of scrimmage.

Fulmer couldn't get and keep guys eligible at the end and whiffed on a number of big prospects. He was fired a year after an SEC Champ Game appearance. Way more to his firing than straight wins and losses.

Dooley's nine wins: UT Martin, UAB, Memphis, horrible Ole Miss with a QB (Mesoli) that never should have played, Vandy(CJF first season), UK, Montana, Cincy & Buffalo

No wins over a ranked team. No signature win. Nothing.

Kiffen had a very good defense, an awesome RB group, good young receivers and an o-line with experience. Dooley had a very young o-line but it was talented, he had a lot of experience on defense, and easy ooc schedule and lucked up against a pathetic Ole Miss team, plus he finished off a good 2010 class that Kiffin had mostly assembled or opened the door for. Did nothing to improve upon that though.

Which is what this staff is doing. Dooley never did that.

o-line lacks talent and tackles. Thomas is a center, not a tackle, Kerbyson is a guard and wouldn't start for any other team in the SEC save for maybe Vandy/UK, Jackson is good, Robertson will be good, Crowder wouldn't play for any other SEC team. It's a development position. Will be better next season with people playing in there natural positions and another season under their belt.

 

[dathcha]

Who has argued that he should be fired? How is pointing out setbacks and failures expecting "instant gratification"? He's been in K'ville two years. He's had 2 prime opportunities to beat UF at their low ebb... he's failed both games. We're not talking about him not beating a great UF team... last year they were 4-8 and lost to Ga Southern.

I never said anyone argued that he showed be fired. But people are wanting to do comparison to Dooley and saying that is where we are headed. All I'm saying if your going to compare Butch to Dooley - lets compare Butch to Johnny, Fulmer, Dickey, etc.... and build your opinions based on a whole and not just one coach

 

[sjt18]

I don't disagree with you on stuff Johnny did - but as a coach butch has a better record then he did by this time in 1 and 1/2 years. If your going to compare Butch to Dooley, let do an honest comparison and compare him to every coach not just the ones the suck - is all i'm saying

Dooley and Jones were UT coaches in the same era of CFB. Majors was not.

How badly would a decent FCS team from now beat a NC team from then? A "big" OL in that day might weigh 260 lbs without the athleticism of 320 lbers today. Media is different. Sports medicine. Size, speed, strength, complexity,.... It isn't the same game.

Back then, there was very little outside monitoring of academics and none of drug use.


Dooley vs Jones is pretty much an apples to apples comparison with regard to the nature of CFB. Majors is definitely an orange in that comparison.


No one here wants Jones to fail. I think we all want him to win. But the simple fact is that he's not producing the wins it will take for him to succeed in the job AND he's missed a couple of prime opportunities for meaningful wins. Dooley's record to this point was better. That's not a good sign.

 

[sjt18]

I never said anyone argued that he showed be fired. But people are wanting to do comparison to Dooley and saying that is where we are headed. All I'm saying if your going to compare Butch to Dooley - lets compare Butch to Johnny, Fulmer, Dickey, etc.... and build your opinions based on a whole and not just one coach

If you want to compare to Fulmer's last 4 years, I'd say that's fair. Going back to the days prior to ESPN... isn't.

 

[k-town_king]

Who is defending him?

People keep trying to act like Jones took over a situation worse than anyone has ever faced in CFB. I and others are pointing out that his situation wasn't very much different from the last UT coach.

Dooley inherited a tough situation. He failed to improve things and win. He was rightly fired. Now we are 17 games into Jones' tenure and his record as actually worse than Dooley's was at this point. That's not a defense of Dooley.... but it might turn into an indictment of Jones if he doesn't turn it around... against very difficult circumstances.

Dooley inherited a situation 10 times better than what Jones did. Dooley absolutely nuked the program.

 

[joevol33]

Dooley was a winner, the current HC... not so much

Every post from you is like this. Go away.

 

[dathcha]

Dooley vs Jones is pretty much an apples to apples comparison with regard to the nature of CFB. Majors is definitely an orange in that comparison.

You really didn't just say Dooley vs Jones is pretty much apples to apples - their is no way that is true: Different players, Different Schedules ect....

I think Dooley had easier schedules and while Butch's first 2 years where loaded with top 10 teams. There are 2 many difference to say that with a straight face:crazy:

And last time i looked Butch has only had one recruiting class he signed. His first one was a bunch of Dooley's kids. He will not have his second full signing class until this Feb.

 

[joevol33]

Dooley inherited a situation 10 times better than what Jones did. Dooley absolutely nuked the program.

Nuked is a little light

 

[Jtown]

Seems like thats right. We need to catch up sometime.

Sounds good

 

[EZE]

I get the easy comparison of records but I.don't understand people saying he's had 2 years. He was hired Dec. 2012. and only one recruiting class that is truly his. If we're having this conversation this time next year, then we have issues.

Thank you for posting this. You would think this would be readily apparent, though.

 

[dathcha]

Thank you for posting this. You would think this would be readily apparent, though.

I know right - wow - "HE HAD 2 YEARS!!!" - no he hasn't. He will have only signed his second full class in Feb!!! But you say that is it feel like i'm :banghead2:

 

[sjt18]

Known what was coming? That the o-line was going to be bad? Well, yeah. And the staff is doing everything they can to fix it.

That is a purely subjective statement. Are you really going to try and claim that no OL coach nor different personnel/recruiting decisions would have yielded a better result?

O couldn't run the ball in 2011 mostly because it was a line that had one upper classmen. Dallas Thomas. Also, Poole was average at best. No vision when there were holes.

Poole took alot of criticism.... but "average at best" RB's don't run for over 1000 yds vs the SEC... and especially when they have neither a great OL nor credible passing game to help.

You can't sit here and say that losing 1 receiver out of a group of really good pass catchers has the same impact as losing the starting QB. That just doesn't make any sense.

It is a matter of dependency. If Worley is lost... alot of things aren't going to work with this O that currently are. When Hunter was lost, alot of things didn't work that were working before. This team has more depth at QB than that one did at WR.... This team has a whole lot more depth at the skill positions to help a new QB. Bray had one SEC quality receiver left after Hunter went down... that just isn't enough to make an O.

. That is on field improvements. Wins will come with the roster improves across the lines of scrimmage.

That's a statement of faith. I'm not willing to take it on faith... much less let that faith blind me to shortcomings and failures. I see the positives. So far they have NOT outweighed the negatives resulting in meaningful wins.

Fulmer couldn't get and keep guys eligible at the end and whiffed on a number of big prospects. He was fired a year after an SEC Champ Game appearance. Way more to his firing than straight wins and losses.

Without 2005, Fulmer wouldn't have been fired in 2008. Some rightly saw that Cut carried him in between.

Dooley's nine wins: UT Martin, UAB, Memphis, horrible Ole Miss with a QB (Mesoli) that never should have played, Vandy(CJF first season), UK, Montana, Cincy & Buffalo

No wins over a ranked team. No signature win. Nothing.

Cincy finished that season ranked. UT should have beaten LSU and UNC... I believe the causes for the losses were such quirks that rules were changed, right?

How much different would it look if those games had been wins?

Kiffen had a very good defense,

They played Nelson and Mitchell-Thornton at LB out of desperation and still managed to stop teams. It was a great coaching job by Monte.

an awesome RB group,

They had one productive RB- Hardesty... running behind an OL that included 2 265 lb walk ons.

good young receivers

Who? They had Jones and Moore primarily.

and an o-line with experience.

No they didn't. They started the Sullins bros at 265 lbs each and then had a RS Fr at RT. They had zero depth.

Dooley had a very young o-line but it was talented,

That same "talented" OL as SR's last year.... didn't dominate under the current staff. How exactly was Dooley better off with the same guys only 2-3 years younger?

he had a lot of experience on defense,

Who would that be?

and easy ooc schedule and lucked up against a pathetic Ole Miss team,

Oregon that year was a better team than any of the teams Jones has lost to.

plus he finished off a good 2010 class that Kiffin had mostly assembled or opened the door for. Did nothing to improve upon that though.

That's true.... and it still doesn't change the fact that Jones isn't winning more games than Dooley did.

o-line lacks talent and tackles. Thomas is a center, not a tackle, Kerbyson is a guard and wouldn't start for any other team in the SEC save for maybe Vandy/UK, Jackson is good, Robertson will be good, Crowder wouldn't play for any other SEC team. It's a development position. Will be better next season with people playing in there natural positions and another season under their belt.

You are throwing players under the bus with very subjective and imo false statements... all to avoid placing even a smidge of responsibility on the guys who are paid to be responsible.

Assuming everything you said were true which I don't... YOU STILL haven't dealt with the fact that THIS staff has now had two years to make decisions that would effect a different outcome. Many of the guys being beaten out by the two Fr are guys Jones signed in '13 and has had in development for 2 years now. What happened?

 

[Volswagg1017]

The comparison is in the most important thing of all.... wins. Dooley inherited a wreck. He failed to turn it around. Jones inherited a very tough draw as well.... and so far he hasn't turned it around to start winning meaningful games either.

All the stuff you site is good. Planting seeds, making investments, and all that are good. I won't stop being a Vol fan and doubt many here will. But at some point you have to make a quantitative.... qualitative judgment on whether your "gardener" has planted and tended the garden correctly.

The thing that I am most critical of and disappointed with is that Jones has been on the job for two years, known that he would be replacing the entire OL this season, and hasn't produced a better result than we've seen. They've had time to prepare. They certainly had time to ID and recruit JUCO's if they didn't think they had the bodies. Are none of the guys who've been around since Jones arrived or came in his first class good enough to be contributing after two years in his development program?

I am also frankly disappointed with his continuing reference to "name someone else starting two Fr on the OL". No one is forcing him to start them. He's decided that they are better options than the guys who have been around longer. He had a two year window to get those guys ready. The choice to start those young guys belonged to no one but Jones himself.

I understand where your coming from but u gotta look at it like this....dobbs got the last 7 starts or something like that last year and right now he redshirting we got players on the line that are redshirt and guarantee to play a lot next year like big Charles he probably would have started ol if he didnt get into that wreak also gotta think it wasnt like that if we didnt have players getting hurt

 

[DD4ME]

I look forward to the distinctions between the 2 continuing to grow. Sadly this year may not be the best example in wins and losses.

 

[NoNameYet]

Dooley was a winner, the current HC... not so much

Just exactly what is going up the pipe of your stove?

 

[sjt18]

You really didn't just say Dooley vs Jones is pretty much apples to apples - their is no way that is true: Different players, Different Schedules ect....

With respect to playing in the same era of college football, yes.

An honest comparison of the rosters they inherited and schedules they faced... do not help your argument. If Jones situation is any worse... it is only by a slim margin.

I think Dooley had easier schedules and while Butch's first 2 years where loaded with top 10 teams. There are 2 many difference to say that with a straight face:crazy:

I could post the proof that this isn't exactly so... but really you should inform yourself. Very succinctly... You are incorrect.

And last time i looked Butch has only had one recruiting class he signed. His first one was a bunch of Dooley's kids. He will not have his second full signing class until this Feb.

No he wasn't set up well. Yes he chose who he would sign and in fact found some pretty good players.

But he owns it either way... He signed the contract. Fulmer screwed Kiffin too... but the 2009 class will forever be tagged to Kiffin.

 

[dathcha]

With respect to playing in the same era of college football, yes.

only thing that is apples to apples is the coached in the 2000's but even then it wasn't the same team with the same players (not apples to apples)

Wrong - your comparison wouldn't hold up - your comparison only holds up if they play the same team with the same players (which last i checked they didn't) so go ahead a post your prof and back up my statement.

The roster were different (not apples to apples), played different teams (not apples to apples) the teams they played and had different player (not apples to apples)

 

[landscapingvol]

Wait... wasn't last year's OL junk? Weren't they infected with Dooley germs (or some idiocy along those lines)?

Dude. Jones has known this was coming since he took the job. I'm not against him in any way but don't fool yourself into thinking that there aren't coaches who would have made decisions that would have produced a better result right now than he made.

Yes you can. That O couldn't run the ball. They had a TE and two NFL caliber WR's. When Hunter went down... an O that flat laid it on a very good Jones coached Cincy team became easily defensible for most teams.

I didn't miss it. It has improved by about a TD per game so far. The problem.... is that it has not produced wins. I LOVE the stats part of football so I DO get some gratification out of seeing UT's D stats rank well against some great D's.

But the bottom line is wins.... not stats.

No. There isn't. All of the other things coaches do may look great but if they do not result in wins... they're meaningless. If wins didn't matter then poor ol' Charlie Weis should have coached ND forever. He was a champ on NSD. Ron Zook should have a street named for him at UF... he was an excellent recruiter. Mack Brown? He dominated Texas recruiting long after he started failing on the field.

The recruiting classes from 2005-2007 that effectively made up the team that Fulmer got fired with in 2008... ranked 3rd, 23rd, and 5th.

He didn't get fired for failing to have good rankings on NSD. He didn't get fired for not putting guys in the NFL. He got fired because the net result of his efforts was losing games.... many of them close ones too.

Deny all you want but here's another for you.... after his first 16 regular season games the abject failure of a HC Dooley was 9-7. Jones is 7-10.

There are unfortunately WAY too many ways that the results produced by the two CAN be compared.

I don't like it. I don't want it. But I'm not going to pretend that it isn't true.



He didn't inherit a situation any worse than Kiffin or Dooley.... much less Freeze or Mullen.

No magic wand required... just the right coach doing the right things and making the right decisions to produce the right results.

I have said MANY positive things about what he's done. His off-season development program to me is more impressive than his recruiting... everywhere except on the OL. Right now, the OL is a MAJOR shortcoming... and the staff owns it.

The fact that you are trying to justify the comparison speaks volumes. Are you trying to suggest that he didn't try to recruit offensive lineman? Dontavious Blair ring a bell, highly rated juco? Simply because UT needs offensive lineman doesn't automatically qualify it as the primary destination for quality lineman or quality any position for that matte which makes CBJ's recruiting results even more impressive. Talent wins ball games and championships, coaching is a small matter in the grand scheme of things unless you are using some gimmick offense that leads to short term success. The long term successful programs have consistently recruited at a top notch level over a sustained period of time. However, the one thing that can kill CBJ's recruiting momentum is not wins and losses, barring some disastrous loss, it is questions or uncertainty about his future. You mopes don't realize that continued criticism of CBJ leads to questions about his future which is precisely what this board has become.

 

[volfan002]

That is a purely subjective statement. Are you really going to try and claim that no OL coach nor different personnel/recruiting decisions would have yielded a better result?

Poole took alot of criticism.... but "average at best" RB's don't run for over 1000 yds vs the SEC... and especially when they have neither a great OL nor credible passing game to help.

It is a matter of dependency. If Worley is lost... alot of things aren't going to work with this O that currently are. When Hunter was lost, alot of things didn't work that were working before. This team has more depth at QB than that one did at WR.... This team has a whole lot more depth at the skill positions to help a new QB. Bray had one SEC quality receiver left after Hunter went down... that just isn't enough to make an O.

That's a statement of faith. I'm not willing to take it on faith... much less let that faith blind me to shortcomings and failures. I see the positives. So far they have NOT outweighed the negatives resulting in meaningful wins.

Without 2005, Fulmer wouldn't have been fired in 2008. Some rightly saw that Cut carried him in between.

Cincy finished that season ranked. UT should have beaten LSU and UNC... I believe the causes for the losses were such quirks that rules were changed, right?

How much different would it look if those games had been wins?

They played Nelson and Mitchell-Thornton at LB out of desperation and still managed to stop teams. It was a great coaching job by Monte.

They had one productive RB- Hardesty... running behind an OL that included 2 265 lb walk ons.

Who? They had Jones and Moore primarily. No they didn't. They started the Sullins bros at 265 lbs each and then had a RS Fr at RT. They had zero depth.

That same "talented" OL as SR's last year.... didn't dominate under the current staff. How exactly was Dooley better off with the same guys only 2-3 years younger?

Who would that be?

Oregon that year was a better team than any of the teams Jones has lost to.

That's true.... and it still doesn't change the fact that Jones isn't winning more games than Dooley did.



You are throwing players under the bus with very subjective and imo false statements... all to avoid placing even a smidge of responsibility on the guys who are paid to be responsible.

Assuming everything you said were true which I don't... YOU STILL haven't dealt with the fact that THIS staff has now had two years to make decisions that would effect a different outcome. Many of the guys being beaten out by the two Fr are guys Jones signed in '13 and has had in development for 2 years now. What happened?

You are obviously intent on arguing no matter what. I'm not saying that this staff doesn't get any blame. Never said that. The comparisons to Dooley are ridiculous though. Kiffen had a much better situation than what Dooley or Butch had.

As far as an 0-line not dominating last season, this is where most people are wrong. Did they get beat on some 3rd and inches/4th and inches stuff? Yes. But, they also posted better rushing numbers than any other Vols team since 2004.

Poole gained the bulk of his yards on 1 or two plays per game then disappeared for the majority of each games and racked up some yards in garbage time at the end of others in 2010. He never came close to those numbers again.

Yes, wins and losses matter, but they matter more when you have the bullets in the gun to get the job done and you miss.

As far as what I said about the o-line, it's 100% fact. Go look at offer sheets. Also, I know for a fact that this staff doesn't want Kerbyson playing at tackle or Thomas playing at tackle. Horses mouth on that one.

This staff hasn't had two years. They haven't even been here two years. December of 2012 to Oct 2014 isn't two years. They signed 3 o-linemen in 2013, a class that was thrown together with who they could get in a short period. Thus the "two recruiting classes behind" comment you hear. They are playing the guys who are performing the best. I see it with my own two eyes, in person twice a week and again on Saturday. My co-host sees even more than me.

Not sure what you mean by "no Oline coach" but as far as personnel decisions with the linemen, they are playing their best 5 right now. Not sure what recruiting decisions you would have made differently with the 2013 class. They had around 2 months to figure that out.

Again, yeah, the staff gets some blame, but to compare Jones to Dooley is asinine. Y'all related or something?

 

[Treesus]

I just want to say that I am disappointed on how some of you have reacted to our loss. I thought we were going to win, and we should have. The fact of the matter is that most everyone on these forums took a 3pt loss to GA as a sign that "we are back." Our boys played our heart out in Athens as well as last week in Knoxville. We should have won, yes, but we didn't. Am I happy? No. I'm not, but to think that CBJ isn't doing a damn good job is ridiculous. So ridiculous that after 3 years of just passively reading the forums I have broken my silence. Every one of you who thought we were "back" 2 weeks ago because we played well in losses are just plain idiots. We are on the way, but are team is young. Calm down! CBJ is not CDD and drooley will never be the coach Butch is.

Brick by Brick.....

 

[sjt18]

only thing that is apples to apples is the coached in the 2000's but even then it wasn't the same team with the same players (not apples to apples)

Not sure if you really aren't getting it or are intentionally obtuse. The "game" is similar when the two coached at UT... The "game" was totally different when Majors coached at UT.... even at the end.

Wrong - your comparison wouldn't hold up - your comparison only holds up if they play the same team with the same players (which last i checked they didn't) so go ahead a post your prof and back up my statement.

So you can never establish a standard for any coach because their circumstances aren't exactly the same, right? You can never hold anyone accountable for anything, correct? Sorry.... just not buying that. You account for the differences but you still apply standards. Both inherited tough and similar situations. Dooley failed pretty magnificently. Jones has not succeeded yet.

The roster were different (not apples to apples), played different teams (not apples to apples) the teams they played and had different player (not apples to apples)

The rosters had comparable weaknesses. The schedules were comparably difficult.

So by saying "different" you are definitely leaving open the possibility that Dooley faced more difficult circumstances, right?.... Nah, didn't think so. You wouldn't have actually looked at any facts or compared anything before drawing a conclusion, would you?

 

[GAVOL1973]

I just want to say that I am disappointed on how some of you have reacted to our loss. I thought we were going to win, and we should have. The fact of the matter is that most everyone on these forums took a 3pt loss to GA as a sign that "we are back." Our boys played our heart out in Athens as well as last week in Knoxville. We should have won, yes, but we didn't. Am I happy? No. I'm not, but to think that CBJ isn't doing a damn good job is ridiculous. So ridiculous that after 3 years of just passively reading the forums I have broken my silence. Every one of you who thought we were "back" 2 weeks ago because we played well in losses are just plain idiots. We are on the way, but are team is young. Calm down! CBJ is not CDD and drooley will never be the coach Butch is.

Brick by Brick.....

I am the one who started this thread....you were spot on..on what I was trying to say....:good!:

 

[sjt18]

You are obviously intent on arguing no matter what.

Hello Pot.... :hi:

I'm not saying that this staff doesn't get any blame. Never said that.

It has certainly been insinuated multiple times here... I'm pretty sure you have.

The comparisons to Dooley are ridiculous though.

I guess that's why I've posted reasons why it is not ridiculous only to have folks like you handwave denials.

Kiffen had a much better situation than what Dooley or Butch had.

I loath Kiffin... but no he didn't. If you are old enough to actually remember all of the particulars... it was bad. Discipline was so bad that Kiffin (yep, that thug) kicked players off the team. I've covered his OL issues... it was worse than this year or last overall. His best option at QB was Crompton. We can go position by position if you like but it was not a deep team and had some significant holes in the starting line up as well.

As far as an 0-line not dominating last season, this is where most people are wrong. Did they get beat on some 3rd and inches/4th and inches stuff? Yes. But, they also posted better rushing numbers than any other Vols team since 2004.

Which was good enough for 9th in the SEC... That's dominating?

Poole gained the bulk of his yards on 1 or two plays per game then disappeared for the majority of each games and racked up some yards in garbage time at the end of others in 2010. He never came close to those numbers again.

Because I've had this argument here before... I know you are incorrect. Please feel welcome to go back and find the play by plays.

Yes, wins and losses matter, but they matter more when you have the bullets in the gun to get the job done and you miss.

Who is responsible for putting bullets in the gun? Is two years long enough to put bullets in the OL gun? Why does there appear to be so many defective bullets that a Fr DL switched in mid-August who was not an EE and managed to become a starter?

As far as what I said about the o-line, it's 100% fact. Go look at offer sheets. Also, I know for a fact that this staff doesn't want Kerbyson playing at tackle or Thomas playing at tackle. Horses mouth on that one.

Crowder had a very good offer sheet. Rivals doesn't show an offer but UT's main competition at the end came from UF. Jackson had a very strong offer list. Kerbyson had a very good offer list.

Kendrick was offered by Jones. It appears he had an offer from Arkansas as well.

Sanders was a 4* Rivals 250 OL.

Wiesman's offers weren't overly impressive but did include OSU and Cincy.

This staff hasn't had two years. They haven't even been here two years. December of 2012 to Oct 2014 isn't two years.

They've had two full off-seasons. That's 2 years when the primary development of a team occurs.

They signed 3 o-linemen in 2013, a class that was thrown together with who they could get in a short period.

So that is an excuse, correct? So if someone else was "two classes behind" they also should have had an excuse, right?

They are playing the guys who are performing the best.

They're playing the guys they believe in. That's what they should do... that doesn't make them right nor does it mean nothing could have been done previously to make the situation better. Maybe they should have gone after more JUCO's?

Not sure what you mean by "no Oline coach"

There's no OL coach in CFB that would be getting more out of the group? Absolutely positively not?

but as far as personnel decisions with the linemen, they are playing their best 5 right now. Not sure what recruiting decisions you would have made differently with the 2013 class. They had around 2 months to figure that out.

Maybe you should stop with the auto-excuse and think a little more outside of the box?

Again, yeah, the staff gets some blame, but to compare Jones to Dooley is asinine. Y'all related or something?

Again, no it isn't. Both were hired in difficult situations.

I have stated that Dooley was a failure as a coach. That is PRECISELY why it makes me so uncomfortable that in spite of the recruiting, cliches, and everything else.... Jones isn't winning any more than Dooley did.