This Team has Talent...

#52
#52
Well, the losses this year were a combination of bad coaching calls, injury, and way too many 3 and outs by the offense, which left the defense out there way too long. My hope is that we return to a more traditional offense with some new wrinkles so we can start to move the chains, which will in turn help our defense stay fresh. There will be some growing pains, but I do believe if the in game decisions are there, and we start to get some confidence, we could beat the teams we are supposed to and also beat a team we aren't supposed to. I won't go much past that without some serious luck. But I'm all Vol! And we're ready.
 
#54
#54
Some talent but not enough and not elite. Gotta flip this roster and change the culture. 2-3 years before we start seeing a return to 8-9 wins. Next year will be 5-7 or 6-6.
 
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#56
#56
ru4real-really? said:
I think after we watched Missouri and Vandy absolutely pound us, that the "we got the talent" argument goes away.
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Vandy and Kentucky are about to start their new 20+ year losing streaks against UT. It will be back to reality for them real quick now that we finally have real UT caliber coaches in charge. Thank GOD our great fans were smarter than our AD and talking heads on espn and did what was necessary to finally turn this ship around. :the_finger:
 
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#57
#57
If top coaches at top programs across the country would be honest and tell their secrets to success, all would say the same thing as the most important thing...DEPTH!

Not just any depth but to WIN consistently in the SEC and against top programs across the country you must have STARTER quality depth 2 deep with Sr, Jr and So class and redshirt and true freshmen players still being fairly decent to good starter depth.

After a program has built up with high quality players then every year many or most of your true freshmen should be able to redshirt for their 1st year just to work hard to learn their position and to eat and get faster and stronger to get ready to play some as a redshirt freshman in their 2nd year.

2 deep with all starter level and 3 deep with mostly starter level talent is now what it takes to WIN the SEC or make the playoffs.

Even being able to consistently recruit this much talent to a Team still requires those elite kids to constantly be coached up very well.

THAT is why we see little nicky saTan and other top coaches throwing a screaming fit on the sidelines during a game even if they have a 4 TD lead.

Somebody did make a mistake so coach them up NOW so that mistake doesn't happen again in this game.

3 deep with quality depth, never stop coaching them up and demand the best from every kid all the time.

Do something for more recruiting every single minute that it's legal and never stop recruiting.

We still have a few really good players but they still need lots of serious coaching.

Reality is that right now we don't even have top SEC or playoff quality starters at every position for our 1st string of starters much less 2nd or 3rd string depth.

We're way behind the likes of Bama, UGa, Clemson, OSU or Okla.

The good news is that I believe we finally have a HC and a staff of top notch recruiters and Teaching coaches that can, and will, turn our beloved Vols around if all of us stay positive and give them a few years to recruit the types of elite players that we must have.

I see some light at the end of the tunnel finally.

VFL...GBO!!!
 
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#58
#58
Duckyvol59 said:
Please someone tell me why everyone thinks we get a L against WV next season. Yes they had a good season in 2017. They beat 2 teams with winning records opps were 26-48 . I know that was more then we did but not a automatic L as most seem to say
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Grier is a legit QB, he threw for over 300 yards in every game he played in last year. It doesn’t matter if they mostly beat bad teams last year because we are a bad team. We couldn’t even beat the bad teams on our schedule. WV will put up at least 30 points on us and I’m not sure we have a QB on roster than can lead this team to 20 points.
 
#60
#60
08Vol said:
Grier is a legit QB, he threw for over 300 yards in every game he played in last year. It doesn’t matter if they mostly beat bad teams last year because we are a bad team. We couldn’t even beat the bad teams on our schedule. WV will put up at least 30 points on us and I’m not sure we have a QB on roster than can lead this team to 20 points.
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I posted this on the other thread too but I watched that Utah/WVU game yesterday and West Virginia was not impressive at all. Remember, that Utah was 7-6, 3-6 in the Pac 12 so not exactly a giant of the game. Maybe Grier will make some difference but I am starting to think that game is very winnable.
 
#63
#63
illinoisvolfan1 said:
Sums it up. We’re so soft there now (outside a few guys) it’s almost pathetic.
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Or a complete scheme and system change.

Stop lining up 1 yard of the ball.

Stop finesse blocking crap.

Hit someone in the mouth HARD.

Act like you got a pair attack the guy in front of you don't stop until he And the guy behind hin are picking themselves up off the ground.
 
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#64
#64
Duckyvol59 said:
Please someone tell me why everyone thinks we get a L against WV next season. Yes they had a good season in 2017. They beat 2 teams with winning records opps were 26-48 . I know that was more then we did but not a automatic L as most seem to say
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With how much Pruitt and the players will feel like they need to prove that they can actually play hard / coach hard and WIN I think they'll play/coach their hearts out and pull off a victory.

Way too much on the line on the first game, Pruitt wants a win and I think he'll make it happen.

ETA: Probably not a very pretty win, but a win nonetheless.
 
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#65
#65
With all the incoming talent on the O and D line coming in how many times will you hear, "Well our team is young. None have ever played in the SEC"? I'm going to guessing it's a 1/10 ratio compared to Butch if you ever even hear it.
 
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#66
#66
SaintLouisVol said:
You could select an all-star team of 5 star recruits, and if they were not properly trained and developed, they'd get absolutely blown off the field by a team of 2-3 star players from a well coached program.

There's very, very few players, even the most coveted five stars, that can just walk on the field and be great.

Saying there is talent on this team is no different than saying there is potential on the team. It's all about how quickly the new staff and install and teach their system along with the new staff's general leadership ability to motivate the existing players to drive themselves to their max potential.
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Hello Volnation. Long time lurker but 1st time poster. Disclaimer: I have posted on other boards over the years under the same moniker but it has been a while but I won't rule out posting on those boards again though I've only posted on one for many years.

I believe what the poster is saying that you responded to is that it would be wise to pump the brakes on the amount of talent many believe is on this roster. There is not enough empirical evidence supporting this idea.

In general, many fans would like to look at the recruiting rankings to back the assertion that this roster has talent or enough talent. There is talent on the roster but we have seen time and time again where this has failed to produce wins on the field if you don't bring in the right players to fit your system, if the class doesn't fill legitimate needs, if there is a lack of coherent position distribution over a 4-5 year period, if turnover seems higher than a normal attrition rate or if it is normal but the vast number that leave the program are considered your 4 and 5 star (LWS would have data on this), etc.

Clearly, there was a lack of development in many players during the Jones era. That is if you want to believe that Jones and staff brought in good recruiting classes. The other argument would be that the players were not as good as their ranking or not what was needed to be able to compete against the type of teams the Vols were playing.

The reality is a root cause is never really just one thing but the is always a primary reason for failure - the ignition. Was it misevaluations? Was it player development? Was it incompetent coaching? Other? Probably a little bit of all of that.

Having monitored this season without posting a single word about it leaves me with a lot I can say about including some worrisome player evaluations with guys getting blown off the ball, guys getting dragged for 5-10 additional yards, guys running up the back of players and filling the wrong gaps, lack of speed and some selfish me 1st attitudes but of course much of this could be the lack of coaching they appeared to have received or accepted. That is just the defensive side of the ball I vented about.

Getting back to original point, I think most would like to see wins right away but this roster appears to have a lot of problems due to the last staff. It would be unrealistic to think the Vols will compete at a high level in just 9 months. That is just reality. It slid that far, that fast. If they get to 6 wins and a bowl that would be successful given where Jones put the program in the end. And no, 6 wins is not accepting medocrity it's just being leveled headed about a team that just did the unthinkable.


Go Vols!
 
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#67
#67
Hey BreathUT. I was a longtime lurker myself but had to join and post during the coaching search craziness. I hope you post more. Well thought out post and good reasoning.

In response to your post even though I completely agree we saw nothing to make us think we have any SEC talent last year it seems with so many high ranked classes there has to be something there. Maybe wishful thinking at best.
 
#68
#68
BreatheUT said:
Hello Volnation. Long time lurker but 1st time poster. Disclaimer: I have posted on other boards over the years under the same moniker but it has been a while but I won't rule out posting on those boards again though I've only posted on one for many years.

I believe what the poster is saying that you responded to is that it would be wise to pump the brakes on the amount of talent many believe is on this roster. There is not enough empirical evidence supporting this idea.

In general, many fans would like to look at the recruiting rankings to back the assertion that this roster has talent or enough talent. There is talent on the roster but we have seen time and time again where this has failed to produce wins on the field if you don't bring in the right players to fit your system, if the class doesn't fill legitimate needs, if there is a lack of coherent position distribution over a 4-5 year period, if turnover seems higher than a normal attrition rate or if it is normal but the vast number that leave the program are considered your 4 and 5 star (LWS would have data on this), etc.

Clearly, there was a lack of development in many players during the Jones era. That is if you want to believe that Jones and staff brought in good recruiting classes. The other argument would be that the players were not as good as their ranking or not what was needed to be able to compete against the type of teams the Vols were playing.

The reality is a root cause is never really just one thing but the is always a primary reason for failure - the ignition. Was it misevaluations? Was it player development? Was it incompetent coaching? Other? Probably a little bit of all of that.

Having monitored this season without posting a single word about it leaves me with a lot I can say about including some worrisome player evaluations with guys getting blown off the ball, guys getting dragged for 5-10 additional yards, guys running up the back of players and filling the wrong gaps, lack of speed and some selfish me 1st attitudes but of course much of this could be the lack of coaching they appeared to have received or accepted. That is just the defensive side of the ball I vented about.

Getting back to original point, I think most would like to see wins right away but this roster appears to have a lot of problems due to the last staff. It would be unrealistic to think the Vols will compete at a high level in just 9 months. That is just reality. It slid that far, that fast. If they get to 6 wins and a bowl that would be successful given where Jones put the program in the end. And no, 6 wins is not accepting medocrity it's just being leveled headed about a team that just did the unthinkable.


Go Vols!
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While I agree that there is some lack of depth on the team, I really believe that our biggest problem is a lack of intensity. I really believe that Coach Pruitt is going to bring an attitude to the team like John Kelly had last year and the beginning of this year. Trey Smith showed it. I was listening to one of the talk radio shows and they brought up that other coaches said that when Coach Fulmer was the HC, when Tennessee wanted to run the ball they did. One thing that many of the successful o-line coaches have is somewhat of a "defensive" mind set. If you do not have this and the other team does, it will make you look "soft".
 
#69
#69
Cartervol said:
No QB, no OL, one decent WR, Suspect LB's, and Charmin soft DL= 0-8 in the SEC. Pruitt has a lot of work to do.

There is some talent in spots, but just not enough.. Maybe they can at least fix the injury deal. The last two years have been ridiculous.
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This is reality. The lack of SEC quality OL and DL is shocking.
 
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#71
#71
CAVPUT said:
Some talent but not enough and not elite. Gotta flip this roster and change the culture. 2-3 years before we start seeing a return to 8-9 wins. Next year will be 5-7 or 6-6.
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Bingo. People talking about what a good to great roster this is. Those same players just went 4-8 and the best one of them just declared for the nfl draft and won’t be back next year.

People need to wake up. Outside of 8-10 players, we better flip this roster as quickly as possible with JPs players if we want to have a prayer to win anything of consequence anytime soon. Given what he and his staff have done so far, I’m very confident that’s exactly what he’s doing/will do.
 
#72
#72
KBVol said:
Bingo. People talking about what a good to great roster this is. Those same players just went 4-8 and the best one of them just declared for the nfl draft and won’t be back next year.

People need to wake up. Outside of 8-10 players, we better flip this roster as quickly as possible with JPs players if we want to have a prayer to win anything of consequence anytime soon. Given what he and his staff have done so far, I’m very confident that’s exactly what he’s doing/will do.
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I think many are caught up by the stars besides these guys names. Well that dont mean jack when they havent been developed. Pruitt has a herculean task ahead of him. Trying to get the guys already entrenched with Butchs mentality fixedis going to be tough. Butch turned massively talented guys into massive busts like nobody's business.

I think its going to take a couple of years before Pruitt gets his mentality established.
 
#73
#73
I would love to hear what Coach Gillespie thinks after spring practice. He will be the best source of how things are different.
 
#74
#74
And it could have been all the new assistant coaches
Butch micromanaging
Players not trained and developed
Problems in locker room
Players not respecting butch


I believe butch would be mediocre with bammer talent. That's how bad and toxic he is as a HC.
 
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