The tired narrative that Tennessee fans are the most unreasonable and unrealistic

#51
#51
bigorangepoppa said:
I have said this before on here, but Fulmer was fortunate to be the coach at Tennessee when most every other team in the SEC was going through the same feeble coaching rotation that Tennessee has been in. He benefited from poor coaching hires by Florida, Alabama, LSU, and he had the alsorans of the conference in Kentucky, Georgia, Ole Miss, any other team you want to include. It was only after the other teams in the conference started to take their football coaching hires seriously that Fulmer's ability shown through. Spurrier embarrassed Fulmer when he coached Duke and soundly whipped Tennessee, Saban to LSU, Richt to Georgia, Stallings to Alabama, even Tuberville at Auburn. That's not to mention how poor his record was in bowl games for the most part. I was a Fulmer fan longer than I should have been, and even when he was brought in as the "interim" AD, I supported it, until he showed he was still living in the past, and then got an extension as the AD. Fouled his legacy badly.
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Spurrier didn’t coach against Fulmer while at Duke
 
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#53
#53
BTW. I know we all are fond of the 98 NC, but that Sugar Bowl win over Miami by Majors still ranks as the greatest Vol win of my lifetime as far as I am concerned. That was a team that was well led and well motivated and that overperformed like crazy that day.
 
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#55
#55
i mean there were riots and flaming mattresses on the campus when kiffin left... the social media and online outrage led to literal protests in the streets when schianno was selected to replace butch... and now this past weekend... we may overreact from time to time...
 
#56
#56
Woke said:
I kinda like the narrative that TN fans are tough, demanding and won’t roll over. I like the fact that we erupted when Kiffin bolted, ran off the milquetoast Schifano, and metaphorically set the house on fire last Saturday night (I’m not condoning violence or public drunkenness).

Instead the narrative I’m completely sick of hearing that continues to hold us back is the one where Phil Fulmer is the modern-era savior of Vol football.

Context matters. PF was a career underachiever who hit the lottery with Cut and Manning. When all that was gone he became lazy entitled and entrenched.

Majors was a career overachiever who rebuilt TN Vol football basically from scratch. From ashes really. Those of us who lived thru all that with eyes wide open know the truth.

I would hope that PF’s complete, utter, sheer incompetence and vapid judgment as AD would close the book on that virus forever.
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Haha well, we would all like for our worst to be looked at as our best. That said, Majors’ record was never good. Fulmer helped recruit Peyton and he inherited a team that went 4-4 before getting one of his 9 10+ win seasons that Majors. Not sure exactly what Majors built?

Also, he recruited mannnny more people than offensive players that helped us win that NC. In fact our defense was as responsible for the NC as anyone. The Auburn game which I was at was won by D. The Arkansas save. Remember the pick for a TD in the NC? By the way, he recruited Tee who almost took us to 2 back to back NCs.

The guy put us on the map in a way I have not seen in my lifetime before or after and in a big way. Did he do it alone? No. No one does anything alone and no one starts anything alone. Some previous labor always goes into our accomplishments. Someone has to make the crap we wear, use and learn for us to even walk out of the door dressed and on time and informed. But Tennessee was the SEC East champ one year before Fulmer was fired. We haven’t been that since. I will digress, but the facts are the facts. You can look at them however you want :)
 
#57
#57
Longsufferingvol said:
I'm getting so sick of the media coming after Tennessee fans. There's this narrative that we are the worst fans and think too highly of ourselves for a program that has only won 1 national title in the last 50 years.
Look at LSU. They just fired a coach after a win over Florida right after he won a national title there. And he was a Louisiana guy who loved LSU. Just let all that sink in.

We gave Phil a lot of leverage after his national title. We kept him for a decade after that despite the fact that he continued underachieve.

So, how exactly are we so unreasonable? We support this program through thick and thin and the program has the resources to succeed (money, facilities, tradition, and recruiting), so why is it so unreasonable and bad for us to have expectations? Seriously, why does the media have it out for us?
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Really sad knowing every coach LSU has hired this century won a national championship. Two of them probably have a hard time tying their shoes.
 
#59
#59
OrangeTsar said:
BTW. I know we all are fond of the 98 NC, but that Sugar Bowl win over Miami by Majors still ranks as the greatest Vol win of my lifetime as far as I am concerned. That was a team that was well led and well motivated and that overperformed like crazy that day.
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Once again it was Florida that kept us from a Natty that year.
 
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#60
#60
vegasvolfan said:
Haha well, we would all like for our worst to be looked at as our best. That said, Majors’ record was never good. Fulmer helped recruit Peyton and he inherited a team that went 4-4 before getting one of his 9 10+ win seasons that Majors. Not sure exactly what Majors built?

Also, he recruited mannnny more people than offensive players that helped us win that NC. In fact our defense was as responsible for the NC as anyone. The Auburn game which I was at was won by D. The Arkansas save. Remember the pick for a TD in the NC? By the way, he recruited Tee who almost took us to 2 back to back NCs.

The guy put us on the map in a way I have not seen in my lifetime before or after and in a big way. Did he do it alone? No. No one does anything alone and no one starts anything alone. Some previous labor always goes into our accomplishments. Someone has to make the crap we wear, use and learn for us to even walk out of the door dressed and on time and informed. But Tennessee was the SEC East champ one year before Fulmer was fired. We haven’t been that since. I will digress, but the facts are the facts. You can look at them however you want :)
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Sorry I can’t let this one go.

“Facts” mean nothing without context, To dismiss Majors like you did as “some previous labor” shows you have zero idea what you’re talking about.

Peyton Manning built Fulmer not the other way around. EVERYONE wanted to play on “Peyton’s team” including top D players who get fat on stats when their team has a future NFL HOF QB under center who keeps the other side off balance.

That “Manning Recruiting Effect” continued until Fulmer flopped like an Ole Miss linebacker in the ‘01 SECCG vs Saban/LSU when we had an engraved BCS NC invite to play Miami. Btw that was Saban’s FIRST SECCG win so Fulmer not only screwed the pooch he effectively launched Saban’s rise to SEC dominance.

Would anyone have beaten Miami in ‘01? Not likely but we were the only ones who could have done it. It would have been an EPIC BCS NC imo.

It’s SECCG’s and NC’s that matter, not W/L stats or winning the East which is nice but like winning Miss Congeniality.

Fulmer won exactly TWO SECCG’s in ‘97 and ‘98 and ONE BCS NC post-Manning in ‘98. That’s. It.

How many SECCG’s and NC’s do you suppose Spurrier, Saban, or Meyer just to name 3 could have won at TN with Peyton Manning under center?

Answer: With a top HC TN could have been where Alabama is today. That could be us in the record books instead of the Gumps. SECCG crowns in ‘96, ‘’97, ‘98, 01 AT A MINIMUM.

It absolutely amazes me that so many Vol fans can’t look past the surface “facts” and instead continue to revere arguably one of the most underachieving HC’s in the modern history of college football. SMH.

As our HC Fulmer was as in over-his-head as he was as our AD. But you keep on drinking from that Fulmer Cup.
 
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#61
#61
vegasvolfan said:
"We kept him for a decade after that despite the fact that he continued underachieve."

I am just answering your question, not being a smart@55. Comments like this that are why we catch that label. Until they stop, we continue to volunteer ourselves for it.

Fulmer had 4 10+ win seasons before that NC and 4 after. 9 10+ win seasons in 17 years is nothing to scoff at especially when his predecessor, Johnny Majors, had 2 in his entire career at Tennessee.

Not to put this on our fans, but our administration is another indication of what's been wrong not just in Knoxville, but in general. Wrong guys at the helm. They fired an HOF coach without a replacement in mind that could do much of anything.

I agree that LSU may be may be end up taking that title and that's one I think we would all invite, but there are a BUNCH of attractive candidates out there today that LSU can get. We shall see how it all unfolds.
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Fulmer had two losing seasons in his last 4 years. No coach at any highly prestigious program would ever retain their job if they have 2 losing seasons in 4 years.

Florida fired McElwain in less than 3 seasons, and he went to the SEC championship game 2 years in a row. LSU just fired Orgeron after he beat Florida and only 21 months after he went 15-0 and won a national championship in one of the most dominant seasons of all-time. Auburn fired Gene Chizik about in about the same time frame as Orgeron after winning a national title. Mark Richt won 2 SEC championships and had 6 seasons finishing in the top 10 with Georgia, and he got fired after two consecutive 10-3 seasons in ‘14 and ‘15. Tommy Tuberville won an SEC championship and had an undefeated season. He was fired from Auburn after his very first losing season. We have not done anything with our coaches that is more unreasonable than any other SEC program has done.
 
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#62
#62
Longsufferingvol said:
I'm getting so sick of the media coming after Tennessee fans. There's this narrative that we are the worst fans and think too highly of ourselves for a program that has only won 1 national title in the last 50 years.
Look at LSU. They just fired a coach after a win over Florida right after he won a national title there. And he was a Louisiana guy who loved LSU. Just let all that sink in.

We gave Phil a lot of leverage after his national title. We kept him for a decade after that despite the fact that he continued underachieve.

So, how exactly are we so unreasonable? We support this program through thick and thin and the program has the resources to succeed (money, facilities, tradition, and recruiting), so why is it so unreasonable and bad for us to have expectations? Seriously, why does the media have it out for us?
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Some of it is true. I go back to the Fulmer firing, there were a lot of door knobs running around thinking we would be 11-1/12-0 every year "if only we would farh Fulmer". Those views were naive and stupid. Then when the Fulmer firing was badly handled and Lane stiffed us, a too-large percentage of the fanbase were unrealistic about what coach would then want to come to UT (Gruden anyone? rolling eyes). Having said that, I still think Hamilton could have done better than Dooley, but even as bad as Dooley was (we hired a coach who had just gone 4-8 at La Tech!!!) , what little chance he might have had was drowned in ridiculous negativity coming from that same fanbase. Which continued through the Jones era. This didn't really start to change until the Pruitt era following the Schiano controversy. I think after last season, Vol fans for the most part are finally reasonable about where we are.

So my take is that some of the criticism was warranted in the past, but not today.
 
#63
#63
volbound1700 said:
Fulmer worked well when he had both David Cutcliffe and John Chavis. Whenever the three headed monster wasn't together, things started to unravel.

When Cutcliffe returned in 2016 and 2017, we started trending back up again only to fall off hard once he left. Interestingly, had 2008 gone better, I think Dave Clawson might have turned around our offense.

The game started to leave Chavis behind in the 2010s. This is why he struggled at Arkansas and LSU later. We would have started to have issues on defenses in the 2010s had Fulmer stayed but may have figured out how to have great offenses with Clawson.

If only Arian Foster had not fumbled at UCLA, things may have been totally different. (Fulmer was always a great recruiter but mediocre gameday coach).
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How has Dave Clawson done since then? And Cut started up at Duke in 2007. You really should proof read your messages before posting.
 
#64
#64
KoachKrab127 said:
Fulmer had two losing seasons in his last 4 years. No coach at any highly prestigious program would ever retain their job if they have 2 losing seasons in 4 years.

Florida fired McElwain in less than 3 seasons, and he went to the SEC championship game 2 years in a row. LSU just fired Orgeron after he beat Florida and only 21 months after he went 15-0 and won a national championship in one of the most dominant seasons of all-time. Auburn fired Gene Chizik about in about the same time frame as Orgeron after winning a national title. Mark Richt won 2 SEC championships and had 6 seasons finishing in the top 10 with Georgia, and he got fired after two consecutive 10-3 seasons in ‘14 and ‘15. Tommy Tuberville won an SEC championship and had an undefeated season. He was fired from Auburn after his very first losing season. We have not done anything with our coaches that is more unreasonable than any other SEC program has done.
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I can’t even have this conversation any longer. It’s insulting to myself.
 
#65
#65
Woke said:
Sorry I can’t let this one go.

“Facts” mean nothing without context, To dismiss Majors like you did as “some previous labor” shows you have zero idea what you’re talking about.

Peyton Manning built Fulmer not the other way around. EVERYONE wanted to play on “Peyton’s team” including top D players who get fat on stats when their team has a future NFL HOF QB under center who keeps the other side off balance.

That “Manning Recruiting Effect” continued until Fulmer flopped like an Ole Miss linebacker in the ‘01 SECCG vs Saban/LSU when we had an engraved BCS NC invite to play Miami. Btw that was Saban’s FIRST SECCG win so Fulmer not only screwed the pooch he effectively launched Saban’s rise to SEC dominance.

Would anyone have beaten Miami in ‘01? Not likely but we were the only ones who could have done it. It would have been an EPIC BCS NC imo.

It’s SECCG’s and NC’s that matter, not W/L stats or winning the East which is nice but like winning Miss Congeniality.

Fulmer won exactly TWO SECCG’s in ‘97 and ‘98 and ONE BCS NC post-Manning in ‘98. That’s. It.

How many SECCG’s and NC’s do you suppose Spurrier, Saban, or Meyer just to name 3 could have won at TN with Peyton Manning under center?

Answer: With a top HC TN could have been where Alabama is today. That could be us in the record books instead of the Gumps. SECCG crowns in ‘96, ‘’97, ‘98, 01 AT A MINIMUM.

It absolutely amazes me that so many Vol fans can’t look past the surface “facts” and instead continue to revere arguably one of the most underachieving HC’s in the modern history of college football. SMH.

As our HC Fulmer was as in over-his-head as he was as our AD. But you keep on drinking from that Fulmer Cup.
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As I said to the other, I insult myself every time I entertain this conversation.
 
#66
#66
VFL-82-JP said:
Well, you can understand what causes them to have that perspective, though, right? I mean, if you look at us from the outside.

The coaching search 3.5 years ago was driven in part by us fans demanding an acceptable new coach. Most fan bases have never done that.

And Saturday's pelting of the field was beyond most "throw things on the field" incidents in its duration and volume. I mean, how often do you see the HOME team pull its cheerleaders and band off the field for their safety? Even if you know fans sometimes throw things at other places, this was well beyond the norm for that.

So we've got a reputation. Not a good one. We can live it down, by being less hoodlum-y.

I have no regrets at all about protesting Currie's efforts, particularly Schiano. But the other night was, well, it was the straw that broke the camel's back.
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I agree. The constantly getting screwed over by officials that once again was on exhibit against OM was the straw that broke the camel's back.
 
#67
#67
Vol865 said:
I agree. The constantly getting screwed over by officials that once again was on exhibit against OM was the straw that broke the camel's back.
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If you go through life moaning about how persecuted you are, you'll die bitter.

Why not make the most out of whatever situation you find yourself in. You have control over exactly one person in this wide world. Worry about that one.
 
#69
#69
VFL-82-JP said:
If you go through life moaning about how persecuted you are, you'll die bitter.

Why not make the most out of whatever situation you find yourself in. You have control over exactly one person in this wide world. Worry about that one.
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I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. Nothing changes if you accept the status quo.
 
#72
#72
I used to think that the anti-Tennessee narrative was mostly in our minds. But I look at things like the Ole Miss game crap, and I now wonder. When Kiffin was at Tennessee he was toasted consistently. Now he gets kid glove treatment - The flopping disgrace would have been every headline had we done that, with or without a trash-throwing episide from the other side.

Tennessee fans are the best in the country. We have stood with this team as the program was destroyed from within by incompetence on a Biblical scale. The fact we still show up after enduring this cavalcade of ineptitude is proof.
 
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