The reason for the slide? It's simple. The strength of the SEC.

#1
VolInFlorida

VolInFlorida

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#1
Recruiting is the reason for the downfall. Some of that is on the coaches. Some of that is on the simple fact that the SEC is stronger than ever.

Look at Tennessee's recruiting. Tennessee is one of the few big college football programs that relies heavily on out of state recruiting. Yeah, I know the budget is huge. Still have to compete against top name football programs in other states.

Would Peyton Manning have gone to Tennessee or LSU?

Would Tee Martin have gone to Tennessee or Alabama/Auburn?

Would Jamal Lewis have gone to Tennessee or Georgia?

Would Peerless Price have gone to Tennessee or Ohio State?

Those are just a few of the many that you can look at.

There are numerous examples. The 90s made this fanbase delusional to an extent. Even myself. The SEC East was Tennessee vs. Florida every season. The SEC West was horrible for the most part. An up and down Alabama team was the big name over there.

Georgia had horrible coaching under Goff and Donnan. Were in the toilet for the most part.

LSU was up and down.

Auburn had a few decent seasons. Nothing great.

Alabama was great in the early 90s. Started a bit of a slide toward the mid-late 90s.

South Carolina was flatout horrible.

Tennessee (throughout the 90s) could go to Georgia, South Carolina, Alabama, Louisiana, etc. and get any recruit they wanted for the most part. Now? The SEC is stronger. Can't do that.

Now let's look at the other recruiting areas. That's mainly California. USC was mediocre at best during Tennessee's great run in the 90s. UCLA controlled that state and Cal was terrible. Would those great players have come cross country to play at Tennessee?

Look at the history of Tennessee football. There have been a handful of down periods like this.

Going into the homes of recruits in a different state and recruiting is far more difficult than some can imagine. Competing against the homestate school is tough.

It is beyond delusional to think that Gruden, Muschamp, or anyone else can step into this job and suddenly go into Georgia and beat Richt for recruits, Meyer at Florida, Miles at LSU, Saban at Alabama, and so forth. They are too strong. It's not the 90s anymore.

Coaches certainly deserve some of the blame. You also need to take a step back and look at the success this team had and why they were having success.

Fulmer, Chavis, etc. didn't forget how to coach. Complacent to an extent? I would say so. The SEC is far more difficult now. Recruiting dropped off because Tennessee couldn't go into Georgia, Lousiana, and so forth and get those recruits (because they became stronger). What you are watching is the result.

Winning at Tennessee is far more difficult than Georgia, Florida, and so forth because of the recruiting base. Fulmer (a Tennessee guy) knows what it takes. Simply not going his way right now. There is no quick fix.

Muschamp, Kiffin, Gruden, etc. would not be able to fix this overnight. Delusional to think otherwise.
 
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#3
#3
VolInFlorida said:
Kiffin, Gruden, etc. would not be able to fix this overnight. Delusional to think otherwise.
Click to expand...

The fact that these guys are good coaches and not just good recruiters like Phil would make this a major fix overnight. Not a complete fix - but we'd be competing to win the SEC instead of competing to win one SEC game.
 
#4
#4
I would be more willing to accept this argument if we looked like a well coached, prepared team that simply doesn't have as much talent as we used to. But we don't. No question that our talent level has declined relative to the rest of the league, but that doesn't explain stupid mistakes, horrific special teams play, a complete failure of OL blocking technique, playing 8 yards off the other team's receivers, wasting four games with a QB who clearly cannot play the position, etc. etc.

Good coaching could fix these problems almost overnight. They have absolutely nothing to do with our talent level or improvement in the rest of the conference. It's inexcusable.
 
#5
#5
VolInFlorida said:
Recruiting is the reason for the downfall. Some of that is on the coaches. Some of that is on the simple fact that the SEC is stronger than ever.

Look at Tennessee's recruiting. Tennessee is one of the few big college football programs that relies heavily on out of state recruiting. Yeah, I know the budget is huge. Still have to compete against top name football programs in other states.

Would Peyton Manning have gone to Tennessee or LSU?

Would Tee Martin have gone to Tennessee or Alabama/Auburn?

Would Jamal Lewis have gone to Tennessee or Georgia?

Would Peerless Price have gone to Tennessee or Ohio State?

Those are just a few of the many that you can look at.

There are numerous examples. The 90s made this fanbase delusional to an extent. Even myself. The SEC East was Tennessee vs. Florida every season. The SEC West was horrible for the most part. An up and down Alabama team was the big name over there.

Georgia had horrible coaching under Goff and Donnan. Were in the toilet for the most part.

LSU was up and down.

Auburn had a few decent seasons. Nothing great.

Alabama was great in the early 90s. Started a bit of a slide toward the mid-late 90s.

South Carolina was flatout horrible.

Tennessee (throughout the 90s) could go to Georgia, South Carolina, Alabama, Louisiana, etc. and get any recruit they wanted for the most part. Now? The SEC is stronger. Can't do that.

Now let's look at the other recruiting areas. That's mainly California. USC was mediocre at best during Tennessee's great run in the 90s. UCLA controlled that state and Cal was terrible. Would those great players have come cross country to play at Tennessee?

Look at the history of Tennessee football. There have been a handful of down periods like this.

Going into the homes of recruits in a different state and recruiting is far more difficult than some can imagine. Competing against the homestate school is tough.

It is beyond delusional to think that Gruden, Muschamp, or anyone else can step into this job and suddenly go into Georgia and beat Richt for recruits, Meyer at Florida, Miles at LSU, Saban at Alabama, and so forth. They are too strong. It's not the 90s anymore.

Coaches certainly deserve some of the blame. You also need to take a step back and look at the success this team had and why they were having success.

Fulmer, Chavis, etc. didn't forget how to coach. Complacent to an extent? I would say so. The SEC is far more difficult now. Recruiting dropped off because Tennessee couldn't go into Georgia, Lousiana, and so forth and get those recruits (because they became stronger). What you are watching is the result.

Winning at Tennessee is far more difficult than Georgia, Florida, and so forth because of the recruiting base. Fulmer (a Tennessee guy) knows what it takes. Simply not going his way right now. There is no quick fix.

Muschamp, Kiffin, Gruden, etc. would not be able to fix this overnight. Delusional to think otherwise.
Click to expand...

I've made a lot of the same arguments myself so obviously I'm in agreement. We WILL NOT out recruit the schools you mention for precisely the reasons you set forth. What we can hope to do is recruit competetively and then coach them competently.
 
#6
#6
I posted this in the other thread but it bears repeating here. Despite all of your excuses the AD's expectations are:

"Hamilton is on record as saying his expectations at Tennessee are to win at least two SEC championships during a 10-year period and get to the SEC title game every three or four years, as well as play in BCS bowls with some regularity. "

ESPN - Vols hungry for first SEC title since '98 - College Football

No excuses, JUST DO IT!
 
#9
#9
VolDad said:
I posted this in the other thread but it bears repeating here. Despite all of your excuses the AD's expectations are:

"Hamilton is on record as saying his expectations at Tennessee are to win at least two SEC championships during a 10-year period and get to the SEC title game every three or four years, as well as play in BCS bowls with some regularity. "

ESPN - Vols hungry for first SEC title since '98 - College Football

No excuses, JUST DO IT!
Click to expand...

Those are just facts. There is too much parity in the SEC today. Heck, did you think South Carolina would be even mediocre at this point when the Vols were running through the East in the 90s? Did you think they would have Spurrier as well? How about Vanderbilt? Kentucky? There are no gimmes anymore. The Vols could take their foot off the pedal for a month or more during the season back then and still win games by three TDs.

Tennessee will be fine. Making a change could hurt this football program even more.
 
#10
#10
hndog609 said:
I've made a lot of the same arguments myself so obviously I'm in agreement. We WILL NOT out recruit the schools you mention for precisely the reasons you set forth. What we can hope to do is recruit competetively and then coach them competently.
Click to expand...

I agree and the coaches need to do a much better job of keeping the players disciplined and such. That's on them.
 
#11
#11
Sounds like we should quit football altogether since we never have a chance of outrecruiting these guys.
 
#12
#12
VolInFlorida said:
Tennessee will be fine. Making a change could hurt this football program even more.
Click to expand...

If fine is zero SEC titles in a decade and two losing seasons, then have at it. How is that acceptable? It's not. Yes, the SEC has improved... but we haven't, fix it.
 
#13
#13
VolInFlorida said:
Those are just facts. There is too much parity in the SEC today. Heck, did you think South Carolina would be even mediocre at this point when the Vols were running through the East in the 90s? Did you think they would have Spurrier as well? How about Vanderbilt? Kentucky? There are no gimmes anymore. The Vols could take their foot off the pedal for a month or more during the season back then and still win games by three TDs.

Tennessee will be fine. Making a change could hurt this football program even more.
Click to expand...

Please explain how your theory explains the UCLA game.
 
#14
#14
nice article.. But your beating a dead horse.. It's not recruiting.. We have talent.. We have loads if talent.. We were 2nd inthe nation 2 years ago in recruiting... We have just enough talent as anyone inthe sec if not more.. Fuller has become comfortable in his thrown that you people lay for him and no change is immenent with him at tv helm.. So keep doing your little loyal pieces.. If it makes out feel better.. Continue.. Your basically sayingthat one man us bigger than the whole program... While you are content wlith Tennessee being middle if bit below muddle if the pack.. I am not .. And therefore.. I support a change in the staff.. Thank you fuller.. But you need to
Go
 
#15
#15
No.........
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=
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which leads to this for Phil...
1184312071750.jpg
 
#17
#17
9296potsguy said:
Sounds like we should quit football altogether since we never have a chance of outrecruiting these guys.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming that was sarcasm. What we need to do is find ways to win even though the best we can hope for is to field comparable talent. Vandy's won several games against teams with more talent and Ole Miss doesn't even come close to the level of athletes that FL has.

We gotta find ways to win that go beyond out talenting people like we once did.
 
#18
#18
Bassmanbruno said:
If fine is zero SEC titles in a decade and two losing seasons, then have at it. How is that acceptable? It's not. Yes, the SEC has improved... but we haven't, fix it.
Click to expand...

You'll see terrible if Fulmer is let go after this season and a guy with zero Tennessee connections is brought in to lead this football program. It will be rock bottom if he can't recruit OOS. Not all coaches can do that like Fulmer can. That's where the delusion comes in.
 
#20
#20
Vercingetorix said:
I would be more willing to accept this argument if we looked like a well coached, prepared team that simply doesn't have as much talent as we used to. But we don't. No question that our talent level has declined relative to the rest of the league, but that doesn't explain stupid mistakes, horrific special teams play, a complete failure of OL blocking technique, playing 8 yards off the other team's receivers, wasting four games with a QB who clearly cannot play the position, etc. etc.

Good coaching could fix these problems almost overnight. They have absolutely nothing to do with our talent level or improvement in the rest of the conference. It's inexcusable.
Click to expand...

I'm in agreement with you. We may not have AS MUCH talent on our team as in years past but we have more than enough to be competitive if this were a well coached, well disciplined team. Before we start worrying about being out talented by other teams, we need to start with basics like not being out hustled, playing more hard-nosed, more disciplined, and with more heart and enthusiasm.

Was Ole Miss more talented than Florida? Was Vanderbilt more talented than Auburn or South Carolina?

Teams don't win simply by out talenting other teams. The teams that are truly great are the ones who are talented AND "bring it" consistently week in and week out. They play with heart, leadership, enthusasim, discipline, confidence, etc. The Vols are sorely lacking in every one of these things and it starts at the top. Fulmer has lost his team and his program.

I kindly refer everyone to Gen Robert Neyland's 7 maxims to winning.


1. The team that makes the fewest mistakes will win.
2. Play for and make the breaks and when one comes your way - SCORE.
3. If at first the game - or the breaks - go against you, don't let up... put on more steam.
4. Protect our kickers, our QB, our lead and our ball game.
5. Cover, block, cut and slice, pursue and gang tackle... for this is the WINNING EDGE.
6. Press the kicking game. Here is where the breaks are made.
7. Carry the fight to our opponent and keep it there for 60 minutes.

Now, is there anything in those 7 maxims that even mentions out "talenting" the opponent?
 
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#21
#21
hndog609 said:
I'm assuming that was sarcasm. What we need to do is find ways to win even though the best we can hope for is to field comparable talent. Vandy's won several games against teams with more talent and Ole Miss doesn't even come close to the level of athletes that FL has.

We gotta find ways to win that go beyond out talenting people like we once did.
Click to expand...
Yes it was sarcasm. Has Fulmer and Co. ever shown they can win games against teams that are more talented than us? Do you see Fulmer making any adjustments?
 
#23
#23
Our biggest problem that I've seen is that we are being manhandled on both lines. What happened to that returning OL that was supposed to be the best in the SEC was either never that good or badly coached. Might be a combination of both.
 
#24
#24
VolInFlorida said:
You'll see terrible if Fulmer is let go after this season and a guy with zero Tennessee connections is brought in to lead this football program. It will be rock bottom if he can't recruit OOS. Not all coaches can do that like Fulmer can. That's where the delusion comes in.
Click to expand...

So let's get this straight. Your argument is that

A) the slide of UT football was inevitable because we're not able to recruit as well out of state as we used to, so therefore

B) Fulmer is irreplaceable because he's the only one able to perform this now-inadequate job of recruiting.

Brilliant.
 
#25
#25
VolInFlorida said:
Cue the delusiondozer rolling in about now.
Click to expand...

There is absolutely zero logic behind the argument that the only coach who could recruit at Tennessee is Fulmer. Furthermore, a coach who knows how to win games would do much more for this program than a coach who is a decent recruiter but gets stomped each year by rival teams and mediocre teams like UCLA. Win games and recruits follow.

Tell me, what good is Fulmer's precious recruiting classes if he sends them out to get stomped each year? Or don't; I have a feeling this thread is just a troll because it's so ridiculous.
 
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