The QB Debate (Week 13)

AustinMem

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I'm critical of JG, but I am no where near that insane to say Shrout is the future. Does he have upside? Sure. But the right way to take him is redshirt entire first year and keep him in the S&C program non stop. Basically gym and playbook should be all he does. Then let him get mop up duty next year for his first game action. Take Dobbs and Worley as examples. Both had no business playing and wasting their redshirts their first year on the team. Remember Dools burning Worley's just to handoff 3 times to end the Bama game? That right there ruined any chance of a formidable career for Worley.

Dobbs didn't necessarily have a choice as Worley and Peterman ended up with freak injuries in back to back years and Ferguson wound up hurt from practice. It is catch 22 with Dobbs and his redshirt year. Yes we have him last year and he prolly gets to 6 wins at minimum because of his legs. However, we likely don't can Butch.

For QB's, the best thing you can ever do is sit them entirely their first year and beef them up on S&C and Playbook.

But Shrout is legit 2 years away (2020) season from any legit playing time at best. He will likely be the #2 next year and they will redshirt and beef up the other 2 guys coming in.

The pure lunacy that we should go to him if JG is injured is insane.
Even though you quoted me but didnt understand my point, just wanted to say I agree with this ppst. As pointed out, I was saying that some former Chryst people would move on to Shrout, which in fact has happened at least by Volman365 in his thread after the game. Best case, JG blows up next year and goes Pro and Shroud/Maurer/? take over, after being able to have time to develop.
When was the last time we actually "developed" a QB? Feels like forever ago. Dobbs seemed to do well in spite of the coaching, not because they really developed him. Bray was just thrown out there to sling it around pickup game style.
 

Zues1

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Even though you quoted me but didnt understand my point, just wanted to say I agree with this ppst. As pointed out, I was saying that some former Chryst people would move on to Shrout, which in fact has happened at least by Volman365 in his thread after the game. Best case, JG blows up next year and goes Pro and Shroud/Maurer/? take over, after being able to have time to develop.
When was the last time we actually "developed" a QB? Feels like forever ago. Dobbs seemed to do well in spite of the coaching, not because they really developed him. Bray was just thrown out there to sling it around pickup game style.
If JG survives another season he probably should move on an take what he can get in the league, while he can still walk.
 

sjt18

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I am going with the assumption that our line next year gives him at least 4 seconds to throw, compared to the 1-2 this year.
Cutcliffe taught QB's they should expect 2.5 seconds to throw the ball. He also taught them to do pre-snap reads and have a pretty good idea where they were going with the ball. JG hasn't mastered that. He's pretty poor at it. Not all of the hits he's taking are because he's getting an unreasonably small amount of time. Some are because he doesn't read D's well.
 

sjt18

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JG isn't as far along as he should be in his 3rd year.

We have never seen Shrout and know nothing of him except for a few vague comments by Pruitt.

KC is not the answer.


The answer at this moment in time is "none of the above".
 

sjt18

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50/50 balls that are so far behind our big receivers go up and make plays, most of them are not good throws
You will NEVER get that particular poster to admit in concrete terms anything that JG does wrong. He'll make some vague general comment about JG having weaknesses... but will never admit anything specific or meaningful.
 

lexkyvol

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JG isn't as far along as he should be in his 3rd year.

We have never seen Shrout and know nothing of him except for a few vague comments by Pruitt.

KC is not the answer.


The answer at this moment in time is "none of the above".
ignorance. so pruitt just snaps to no one....smmfh. JG is the obvious answer right now.

i see u couldn't pretend for too much longer
 

jasonvol18

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Considering we aren’t in on one and haven’t offered any, other than a 3 star kid that could pan out long term, I wouldn’t get your hopes up
I wouldn't make judgement on a HS QB based off his star ranking. The so called elite and Highly ranked HS QB's are wrongly evaluated more than any other position on the field. That includes the elite *5 rated guys and all the way down to the lower rated *3 recruits. You can't evaluate how the kid is mentally or how headstrong or lack of it he has in HS. So many peak in HS and aren't mentally strong enough to handle the pressure college QB's go through daily. Especially if they are at big time football schools and the microscope each is under their entire college career. So many QB's with elite skill sets and tools, but never live up to their ranking because they aren't mentally strong. Then lots of kids can't afford to go to these QB camps, which you gotta do these days to get your name out there. That's also where so many get put at elite status and get their ranking. Whiich is another reason so many highly rated players are rated higher than they should be. 7 on 7 and throwing in shorts, no pads and no 280+ pound defender coming at you. Then throw in guys like Shrout and Maurer for instance. Neither had much or any talent around them and played on really bad teams. These Elite 11 camps and other's that have NFL evaluators do benefit HS QB"s like Shrout and Maurer. It atleast let's them show off arm strength and accuracy. That's about the only benefit of those camps. Recruits like Taulia and others, who play for great HS programs and play with other good players could really skip most of the camps. But it's the trendy thing to do and helps your star ranking.

Sorry for rambling but my point is QB is the one recruiting ranking I don't put a much stock in. Players have no clue Until they get on campus, go through a college football camp and practice, then realize..the pressure and stress is unlike anything they could have ever imagined. I posted a list months ago about all the high *4 and *5 QB's who never lived up to their ranking or even played any meaningful time in college. I went back 10-12 years and the QB's, who never did much or anything in college is abnormally high for the most important position in football. So Many posters, who are self proclaimed QB Guru's talk bad about Shrout and claim he's just a body for QB depth. Which contradicts what NFL scouts and Coach's, who rely on their evaluation to keep them employed think. Put Shrout or Maurer on great teams like Taulia and other's have had and their stats and recruiting hype would be and have been similar. So I wouldn't overlook Shrout or Maurer just yet. Maurer could and should end up a *4 on 247 and Rivals and he's already a *4 on ESPN. So Maurer is a *4 if that's how you judge his talent. Not to mention Florida and Ohio St are still recruiting Maurer as we speak. Shrout was also as close to a *4 on Rivals as you can get. A little side note for you, Shrout was a ahigher rated QB on the top 20 Pro Style QB board than a certain former Vol QB that is currently backing up Big Ben at Pittsburgh. Just saying, I wouldn't base a HS QB recruit's football career based off what a few guys at rsome ecruiting service's think. They are wrong way more than they are right on QB recruiting Rankings. We have 2 high character, high ceiling QB's in JG Shrout and Brian Maurer. Plus I'm still hoping JT lives up to his high ranking and #1 DT QB ranking he had. Would be good if Shrout and Maurer don't have to be thrown into the fire so early into their college career's.
 

jasonvol18

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wonder what the 2 have in common?
Lord it had zero to do with race. Worley,Peterman, Bray,Crompton and Ainge each took more criticism from some Vol fans than Dobb's or JG ever have. Only Criticism I ever had about Dobb's was his inconsistency. He had some really bad games against teams like Vandy and a few others we lost to that weren't near as talented. And he could be reckless with the ball at times and turn the ball over. Can't tell you how many fumbles he had that we were able to recover the ball. I've seen a select few poster's who wanna cry racism' when anything negative was said about Dobb's or JG. Anything negative said about either was justified. This isn't the 1800's, nobody is against a certain race playing QB, Coaching or anything else. Like I said earlier, Ainge, Bray, Worley, Peterman and Dormady were criticized more than Dobb's or JG have ever been. Guess we have a board full of racist's and against both black and white QB's. Guess we need to recruit QB's who are Polynesian, Hispanic, Middle Eastern or throw in some albino or maybe some little people QB recruits. Good lord there's some sensitive a$$ poster's that badly need numerous psych evaluations. I
 

sjt18

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ignorance. so pruitt just snaps to no one....smmfh. JG is the obvious answer right now.

i see u couldn't pretend for too much longer
No. Pruitt is just trying to choose the best tasting turd out of a pile of turds.

No idea about Shrout… but neither KC nor JG are the "answer". In his last 7 drives, JG has led the Vols to 68 yards and no points. That's anemic and it isn't just because of the OL. Bad decisions manifest themselves in lots of ways... like throwing into a crowd to a TE for no gain on 3rd down. Like breaking the pocket with no pressure.
 

sjt18

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wonder what the 2 have in common?
Both struggled with reading D's. Dobbs improved. JG hasn't.

If you are calling someone a racist... just how stupid is that? We're pulling for a team whose most glorious season in the last 30 years was led by a black QB. We're pulling for a team with a handful of players in the two deep who aren't black. We're pulling for a program that helped pull the race barrier down in the 70's and 80's with some of the first black QB's in the SEC.

I could care less what color someone is. My understanding is that JG is biracial. If you are that fixated on race... then just imagine that I'm criticizing his "white" half.
 

marcusluvsvols

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Anybody still pulling for UT after the last decade is a Vol through and through, and likely wouldnt care if our best players were Chinese muslims fresh from internment if they could get us out of the basement of the SEC...we are about to lose to freakin vandy for the 3rd straight year, and have them knock us out of a bowl game for the 2nd time in recent memory. Vandy. Freakin vandy....so glad I dont live in nashville, i would definitely catch a charge soon.

Protip: any team that has been this bad, for this long, has no bandwagon fans left. None. You might not agree with what other posters here say...but they are real Vol fans or they would have quit following years ago. This crap is pathetic.
 

GAVol

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No. Pruitt is just trying to choose the best tasting turd out of a pile of turds.

No idea about Shrout… but neither KC nor JG are the "answer". In his last 7 drives, JG has led the Vols to 68 yards and no points. That's anemic and it isn't just because of the OL. Bad decisions manifest themselves in lots of ways... like throwing into a crowd to a TE for no gain on 3rd down. Like breaking the pocket with no pressure.
I don't know how anybody can reach any conclusion but this. JG has played his heart out, but he's just not going to make plays outside of the offense.
 

sjt18

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Anybody still pulling for UT after the last decade is a Vol through and through, and likely wouldnt care if our best players were Chinese muslims fresh from internment if they could get us out of the basement of the SEC...we are about to lose to freakin vandy for the 3rd straight year, and have them knock us out of a bowl game for the 2nd time in recent memory. Vandy. Freakin vandy....so glad I dont live in nashville, i would definitely catch a charge soon.

Protip: any team that has been this bad, for this long, has no bandwagon fans left. None. You might not agree with what other posters here say...but they are real Vol fans or they would have quit following years ago. This crap is pathetic.
Not exactly true. I think there are a few guys here who showed up when JG did and will disappear when he's gone. D4H seems to be gone or else has switched his screen name and cult allegiance.... but he was a Dobbs fan rather than a UT fan.
 

shotgun83

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Another season over. I can honestly say it ended as I expected. Pruitt has his work cut out for him this offseason. Since we lack talent, I would go heavy on fundamentals and s&c.
 

BeardedVol

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Not exactly true. I think there are a few guys here who showed up when JG did and will disappear when he's gone. D4H seems to be gone or else has switched his screen name and cult allegiance.... but he was a Dobbs fan rather than a UT fan.
D4H is stl here beating his Dobbs drum in the NFL forum.
 

sjt18

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Another season over. I can honestly say it ended as I expected. Pruitt has his work cut out for him this offseason. Since we lack talent, I would go heavy on fundamentals and s&c.
S&C can make it a good bit better. Tatum and Ryan Johnson IMO can be good players with more size and power. Hard to see Jahmir Johnson putting 30-40 lbs on his frame to become an SEC caliber OG. I'm personally not counting on Smith. Hopefully he makes it back and they resolve his issues... but who knows? Niehaus is a 3rd year player and well under 300 lbs. Hard to see him gain and sustaining weight and power. Calbert and Carvin have some potential but weren't ready this year.

Some of the 1st and 2nd year guys could still become good players. OL's are as often built as they are found. Mizzou's best OL's have been low rated guys who didn't really make an impact until their 3rd or 4th year. This is one of the things that will determine Pruitt's fate.

Jones left the OL situation significantly worse than he found it... and remember that Dooley skipped a whole class of OL's.
 

sjt18

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I don't know how anybody can reach any conclusion but this. JG has played his heart out, but he's just not going to make plays outside of the offense.
If they could just get him to do the simple reads that Cut taught Ainge... I'd be happy. I really would.

This is one criticism I'll go ahead and toss out against Pruitt. Cut took an OL at least as bad and probably worse than the 2018 OL. He had very little talent at WR (Lucas Taylor, Austin Rogers, and Josh Briscoe were the top 3 receivers). He had one good RB (Foster). IIRC, the Vols scored over 400 pts that year. The much maligned "dink and dunk" kept D's off or Ainge. They gave him mostly simple reads according to what they said at the time. A short lateral passing game opened up running lanes... pass to set up the run. UT ran 54% of the time but most of the throws were less than 10 yards.

So why didn't UT resurrect a version of this O this year? I've criticized JG but surely he could run that? If not and a decision had been made before the season, they probably could have taught it to KC or even Maurer.
 

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