The Present Could Destroy The Future

#1
DOCTORLOOMIS

DOCTORLOOMIS

Smith’s Grove - Warren County Sanitarium
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Sep 17, 2007
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#1
Hi everyone....I am brand new to these forums but not to UT football. I was born and raised in Tennessee and Vol football is a big part of my life. I will write more later...but in the meantime I want to make a valid point. If Fulmer and his band of morons are not ousted soon, we might fall to a low point that we cant recover from. As we all know, recruiting is the lifeblood of the program. Has anyone checked Rivals.com and looked at the top 100 players in the country. Not one of them is big on Tennessee. Now with Alabama making a possible comeback with Saban, as well as LSU and Florida showing their dominance, we simply are not going to attract the talent it will take to compete in our conference...much less nationally. I want everyone to think back to around the year 1994. We got Peyton to commit and the following year we got players such as Jamal Lewis, Peerless Price, Leonard Little, Travis Henry, Shawn Bryson, Terry Fair, and in my opinion the best defensive player ever at Tennessee, Al Wilson. The problem was, we DID NOT capitalize on the fame and the continuous television coverage we were getting during the Manning era. Sure we were good....but not great. We had superior talent and have zero to show for it except a beating at the hands of Nebraska in the Orange Bowl, an outright thrashing by Spurrier when he put 62 on us, and possibly the greatest upset in Vol history when we were ranked #6 in America and were beaten by Memphis. Do you people understand we had possibly the greatest NFL QB of all time on our team.....at least 10 NFL FIRST ROUND picks on our team.....and we lost to Memphis. I know everyone will point to the National Championship in 1998, but lets be honest here. If Clint Stoerner doesnt have one of the silliest fumbles in SEC history, we lose to Arkansas and never get to the game against Florida State. And also, lets be honest once more....FSU's starting QB had spinal/vertebra surgery and they played a quarterback that couldnt make some good high school teams. My point is this....we had a tremendous opportunity with those athletes and especially with Manning's publicity to really escalate ourselves into the elite echelon of college football. But we didnt. And I truly believe it has slowly caught up with us. Yes we have attracted some fine athletes since the Manning days....but either those players were not as good as advertised or the coaches ruined them....or a combination of both. The fact is kids see us getting blown out like Saturday. They see the old fashioned game-has-passed-us-by offense. They see us always coming up short in the big games...the fumbles, missed tackles, mistakes etc. I believe that if Fulmer is not gone this season and a new fresh coach is not brought in, we may not recover in the recruiting wars. Then it becomes a snowball effect....you lose games because you have no talent....and then you cant get talent because you lose games. It kills me to see us get embarassed like Saturday....and in my heart....until Fulmer is gone, I know we will always come up short.
 
#2
#2
You make some great points.I personally have never liked phil's conservative philosophy.I feel like you it has cost us chances to be great in the past.Oh and one more thing,they are going to get all over you for making this one big paragraph.
 
#3
#3
i agree 100%. I also think Fulmer is not much of a motivator in the locker room. Whenever i see the vols come out of the tunnel they are not as pumped up as our opponent. If you also look at some of Fulmer's pre game speeches on youtube, you will see that he's very soft spoken and reserved in the locker room.

On the other hand, look at the Urban Legend (yes we can call him a legend now). He fires his guys up every single game.

I don't know how much motivation plays a roll in our losses but i think it's very important in college football.
 
#4
#4
I will make sure to use paragraphs from now on....lol. And yes you are correct....Fulmer and his band of idiot coaches have cost us many games, titles, and championships. The kids on the field deserve so much more. On a side note...I truly believe that Fulmer and company personally cost Peyton Manning the Heisman trophy....possibly two of them.
 
#7
#7
I agree. For years I have thought that UT never attacked their opponent. Our defense used to be nasty. I mean... really nasty. Where are the hits? Gibril Wilson, Dion Grant and others would be ashamed.



Like the some other dominant powers in the 90s (FSU, Miami, Michigan) we have failed to adapt, or even stay in tune with what made us elite. And we have fallen by the wayside.
 
#8
#8
DC Vol said:
I agree. For years I have thought that UT never attacked their opponent. Our defense used to be nasty. I mean... really nasty. Where are the hits? Gibril Wilson, Dion Grant and others would be ashamed.



Like the some other dominant powers in the 90s (FSU, Miami, Michigan) we have failed to adapt, or even stay in tune with what made us elite. And we have fallen by the wayside.
Click to expand...

true...the coaching staff has grown soft...where is the fear in our opponents these days when they come to neyland? where has our smash-mouth running game where we used to kill people with the run gone?
 
#9
#9
Just to add a little to the recruiting subject, we got Eric Berry ONLY because of family ties. We got Chris Donald ONLY because of in state family pressure. We were damn lucky to get them both. But, does anyone remember us losing Patrick Turner to USC? The NUMBER ONE receiver in America....and he leaves to go to California. You can NOT lose players like that and hope to win. Impossible.
 
#10
#10
Welcome to the board, and thanks for sharing a little different perspective than much of the short-sighted commentary that is abundant around here. It seems obvious that our performance Saturday and (another) sub-par season will definitely have a negative effect on recruiting. Fulmer and his "family appeal" can only go so far when athletes are looking to win championships, trophies, and make the big bucks. Quite frankly, we have become irrelevant on the National Scene, and that will surely plague us when it comes time for commitments.

On a side note, I'd stay away from incendiary adjectives when describing the coaches. That will not sit well with some people around here and might interfere with your very valid point being taken seriously.
 
#11
#11
I will say this in defense of Cutcliffe:

Specifically in the Florida game, I don't think many people could have called better plays in regards to passing. The O-Line executed all night protecting Ainge, who made good reads and very good passes. The receivers did NOT help him, but that has almost always been a problem with us. I remember that Shuler had that problem against Georgia in '93, unless I am mistaken. Crucial drops. Drive stalling drops. I think those just built a level on anxiety in our team that capitulated in the 4th Quarter. I honestly feel that even with a broken finger, Ainge could have led that team.


However:
Cutcliffe has said "you don't need to worry about throwing past the sticks. Just get the ball to our guys and let them make the play". I think that is Cutcliffe calling it like he sees it. Our WRs stand a better chance to make the 1st on their feet, than they do with their hands making a tough downfield catch.


I would ask anyone on here to honestly say they disagree with that. The Offense was in absolute shambles when Cutcliffe took over. I say keep him at OC and QB coach. RBs and WRs don't even have the fundamentals down yet. (catching the ball, receiving a hand-off/not fumbling)


Comments?
 
#12
#12
Hi Kiddiedoc....point taken. I just hope that our football program doesnt become what our basketball program used to be. Anyone remember Anfernee Hardaway....number one player in America from Memphis. We lose him to Memphis State. Tony Delk....McDonalds all american from Brownsville....lose him to Kentucky. I could go on and on but these examples prove what happens when pitiful coaching causes/allows players to leave home. It is devastating.
 
#14
#14
DOCTORLOOMIS said:
Just to add a little to the recruiting subject, we got Eric Berry ONLY because of family ties. We got Chris Donald ONLY because of in state family pressure. We were damn lucky to get them both. But, does anyone remember us losing Patrick Turner to USC? The NUMBER ONE receiver in America....and he leaves to go to California. You can NOT lose players like that and hope to win. Impossible.
Click to expand...

We lost an in city player in Harrison Smith, who went to Notre Dame (palpable decision). He was a 4-star Safety from Knoxville Catholic. His father knew that UT was on the decline. Also, Chad Pennington went to Webb School of Knoxville, and we didn't look at him, unless I'm mistaken.

And you're right, we got lucky with Al Wilson who was also an in-state guy. UT is one of the biggest national recruiters in the country, and usually has good luck recruiting... but our dissapearance off of the national scene is going to dishearten recruits. With Fulmer at the reins, how are you going to convince a competitive 18 year old to play for us, when we can't even beat teams in our back yard. The SEC is getting tremendously better. We're getting worse. I hate to sound pessimistic though.



Honestly? I think that UT should try to convince Al Wilson to be a LB Coach/Assistant DC and Recruiter for us. He has a huge name in the football world, and would do a lot of good for us. I know he loves the game, and we'd better snatch him up before someone else does.
 
#15
#15
You guys really need to quit having these pity partys. Being 1 - 2 isn't that bad. You will get used to it after a few more years.
 
#16
#16
HI DC....I think I can argue that point about Cutcliffe. Let us not forget he was the play caller on that fateful day in Memphis. I was there....and I remember Peyton handing the ball off to Jay Graham time after time up the middle. We allowed an inferior team the chance to beat us..and they did.

As far as allowing our "playmakers" to get the first down, who are these playmakers? Briscoe? Rogers? Taylor? No way...these guys are average...no where near the caliber of a Meachem, Price, Stallworth etc.

And finally, am I the only one that is sick and tired of that play we run where Ainge throws the ball down the line of scrimmage....only to see our receiver tackled for a 4 yard loss? How about when it is 3rd and 9 to go and we throw a 2 yard out pattern?
 
#17
#17
DC Vol said:
I will say this in defense of Cutcliffe:

Specifically in the Florida game, I don't think many people could have called better plays in regards to passing. The O-Line executed all night protecting Ainge, who made good reads and very good passes. The receivers did NOT help him, but that has almost always been a problem with us. I remember that Shuler had that problem against Georgia in '93, unless I am mistaken. Crucial drops. Drive stalling drops. I think those just built a level on anxiety in our team that capitulated in the 4th Quarter. I honestly feel that even with a broken finger, Ainge could have led that team.


However:
Cutcliffe has said "you don't need to worry about throwing past the sticks. Just get the ball to our guys and let them make the play". I think that is Cutcliffe calling it like he sees it. Our WRs stand a better chance to make the 1st on their feet, than they do with their hands making a tough downfield catch.


I would ask anyone on here to honestly say they disagree with that. The Offense was in absolute shambles when Cutcliffe took over. I say keep him at OC and QB coach. RBs and WRs don't even have the fundamentals down yet. (catching the ball, receiving a hand-off/not fumbling)


Comments?
Click to expand...

I think you're right. his playing calling is not bad, but it's too conservative IMO. I like short pass plays where it allows the reciever to make the play, but when we're down, he continues to call these plays. I cant remember one play this season where we went all out on a deep post route. We have the most accurate and experienced QB in the SEC. And don't say we have inexperienced recievers because we are tennessee...we're supposed to reload not rebuild.
 
#18
#18
Hi utvolpj....Penny was not a good example? he was the finest high school player in the United States. His NBA career is not the point.....but in high school he was a man among boys...and we lost him. Nevermind losing David Vaughn...another McDonalds all american. How about Sylvester Ford? Marlon Townes? Vincent Rainey??? All of these kids were Street and Smith all americans...and Larry Finch and Nolan Richardson took them all.
 
#19
#19
DOCTORLOOMIS said:
HI DC....I think I can argue that point about Cutcliffe. Let us not forget he was the play caller on that fateful day in Memphis. I was there....and I remember Peyton handing the ball off to Jay Graham time after time up the middle. We allowed an inferior team the chance to beat us..and they did.

As far as allowing our "playmakers" to get the first down, who are these playmakers? Briscoe? Rogers? Taylor? No way...these guys are average...no where near the caliber of a Meachem, Price, Stallworth etc.

And finally, am I the only one that is sick and tired of that play we run where Ainge throws the ball down the line of scrimmage....only to see our receiver tackled for a 4 yard loss? How about when it is 3rd and 9 to go and we throw a 2 yard out pattern?
Click to expand...

Well, Cutcliffe's play calling is eerily like Randy Sanders. I'm sorry, but I think Sanders was made into the bad guy. Fulmer, from what I understand, will do his "play call by committee". I don't think that Cutcliffe is totally at the helm. Also, I wouldn't trust Ainge and his finger, and the receivers hands to be a good combination. In all honesty, I think that is the best of a bad situation. If the reciever pops it in the air, that's an INT. I know I'd rather have a failed 3rd Down conversion than an INT. And those dump offs were only accentuated because Fla moved up on the ball to shut off our running attack. I think later in the season as the young kids know their routes and Ainge's hand is healthy, we'll see a resurgence of the passing attack. I know Ainge has the arm for it, but what good is that without speedy route runners?
 
#20
#20
Sudeepvol said:
I think you're right. his playing calling is not bad, but it's too conservative IMO. I like short pass plays where it allows the reciever to make the play, but when we're down, he continues to call these plays. I cant remember one play this season where we went all out on a deep post route. We have the most accurate and experienced QB in the SEC. And don't say we have inexperienced recievers because we are tennessee...we're supposed to reload not rebuild.
Click to expand...

I think we were conservative because we had to control the ball to keep their offense off of the field. It was mostly successful in the 1st Half. We didn't execute in the Red Zone, and Cutcliffe blamed himself for that. Also, I think too little is made of Ainge's ability to throw. Manning himself said he couldn't throw the long ball with the cast effectively. Would YOU want to risk an errant throw? I think not. I don't blame Cutcliffe for the Florida game. His system is complicated, but Manning had a LOT of good to say about Cutcliffe, and I think his system is effective, but it takes time to implement. He certainly righted the passing game. Note: I think that if we had a legit down-field threat (such as Meachem) the game would have been a lot different. Our offense wasn't dynamic, but like I said, I think there was more to Ainge's hand than what was made of it.


We used to be "Wide Receiver U"... not anymore.
 
#21
#21
DOCTORLOOMIS said:
Hi Kiddiedoc....point taken. I just hope that our football program doesnt become what our basketball program used to be. Anyone remember Anfernee Hardaway....number one player in America from Memphis. We lose him to Memphis State. Tony Delk....McDonalds all american from Brownsville....lose him to Kentucky. I could go on and on but these examples prove what happens when pitiful coaching causes/allows players to leave home. It is devastating.
Click to expand...

Don't forget Ron Mercer, Brandan Wright, Thadeus Young, Corey Brewer.....Jesus, that list goes on and on and on...

Let's hope those days are over for the basketball team...but I agree with the beginning of those days being upon us in football.

I mean...c'mon...who in the world would want to play for a team like what we fielded Saturday. If I'm a top recruit Tennessee is nowhere near the top of my list.
 
#22
#22
DC Vol said:
I think we were conservative because we had to control the ball to keep their offense off of the field. It was mostly successful in the 1st Half. We didn't execute in the Red Zone, and Cutcliffe blamed himself for that.


We used to be "Wide Receiver U"... not anymore.
Click to expand...

i understand the conservative approach early on, but when we're 28-6, you can't play conservative. The only reason why we were able to score before halftime was because fla was playing a zone in order to prevent the big plays.
 
#23
#23
johnchavisfan said:
You make some great points.I personally have never liked phil's conservative philosophy.I feel like you it has cost us chances to be great in the past.Oh and one more thing,they are going to get all over you for making this one big paragraph.
Click to expand...


At least he puts spaces after sentences. :lolabove:
 
#25
#25
Have you guys noticed great teams of the past and how they got the ball to their playmaker in many different ways? Even as far back as the 80s....Notre Dame got the ball to Tim Brown...period. Hand it to him....throw it to him...pitch it to him....and then you had to kick it to him. How about Michigan and Desmond Howard? Same thing. Florida State and Peter Warrick? And now look at what Florida is doing with Harvin??? Arkansas and McFadden? We have had those type athletes in the past....and we NEVER EVER got the ball to them over and over. And right now, I feel that Vinson and O'Neal mght be that type of athlete....and they are on the pine.
 
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