The Official Detroit Lions Den Thread
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The Lions Training Camp starts today. I have not done a Lions write up since President's Day. A lot has happen.
1. I'm a selfish human being. When I saw Frank Ragnow retire, I was thinking "Man, you couldn't have tried one more year?" But I know how tough Ragnow is and the fact he announced it in May tells me that he didn't have it anymore. He has an inoperable toe injury and his knees have been shot the last two years. He played last year with a partially torn pectoral muscle and was an All-Pro. It sucks but with how much these guys make I get it. It's not impossible to overcome (I remember the think pieces about Kelce retiring in Philly) but it's a tough blow with such an important season upcoming. We will see how Ratledge does and I get wanting him to be the C when his measurables after perfect for the position. Graham Glasgow was bad last year but he's got a ton of snaps at center and Trystan Colon can also fill that spot if need be. There's enough talent in the interior I think they can work around it. OL is tough because it's incredibly difficult to improve that position at the deadline or with training camp cuts. They need Mahogany to be healthy and a legit mauler, and they need Decker to be what he was in 2022-2023 after I thought he took a step back in 2024. They still have Penei Sewell, which means it's almost impossible to have a bad OL. But Hank Fraley has his work cut out for him in 2025.
2. I didn't do a draft recap so here's my overall thoughts. Tyleik Williams wasn't on my initial board but I think it was an overall good pick. Williams was a shutdown run defender with great size and solid production that was the anchor in the middle for Ohio State's defense. They needed a stout run defender with DJ Reader in his 30's and on a one year deal. Brodric Martin was a miss and they can't count on him to be anything moving forward. Williams has shown solid pass rushing capabilities as well but he should be an impact player day 1. He'll get a chance to start with McNeill out the first few weeks. If he can show the pass rushing capabilities from his first two years at Ohio State with that natural ability to blow up the interior, the Lions could have a steal on their hands. We will see what happens with Tate Ratledge at C but he will be a starting OL in the NFL. I loved that pick and I think he's a day one starter. Awesome measurables, constant production and a real mean streak everybody wants in their offensive lineman. He showed some real ability to pull and be used creatively at the guard position. This was my favorite pick of the draft and I won't be surprised if Ratledge is getting Pro Bowl votes by year 2.
3. Okay, so I still don't get the Isaac TeSlaa pick and I'll explain. The first is the asset management. I hate giving up two 3rd rounders in 2026 (their own and one of the comp picks for Glenn). I know they moved up 32 spots in the round and they got two 6th rounders with it. I just hate giving up that many picks when you need cheap complimentary pieces with all the contract extensions. It's one thing to give up a 4th and couple 5ths for Brodric Martin when you already had 5 players you drafted before Martin. But they also traded a 3rd rounder to move up for Giovani Manu the previous season. He played 0 snaps in the regular season. The second is I know TeSlaa has insane measurables and he blocks his ass off and is a great kid. I know Arkansas was not the pinnacle of passing success and he didn't play with an elite QB. He still didn't produce enough in college for the price. If you take him at 102 and do not trade any picks, sure that's fine. But giving up that many assets for that player at a position where they really don't need any WR help, is just a mistake to me. I thought it was a ridiculous trade up. If you are giving up that much for the #70 pick, it better for a projected day 1 starter and TeSlaa isn't that. But Brad Holmes is a top 5 NFL GM so maybe I should give him a break.
4. I thought Miles Frazier was exactly like the Mahogany pick, a top 100 prospect that fell to the fifth and too talented to pass up. Maybe it was the medicals, maybe it was the slew of interior lineman drafted on day 2, but it's insane he fell to the 5th round. He's was an elite pass protector at the guard spot and even played some tackle and center. He has to become a better run blocker and has some leverage issues but Hank Fraley can fix that. He probably won't start day 1, but with how bad Glasgow was last year and Zeitler leaving, they needed to take another interior lineman for depth. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a 2026 starter. Ahmed Hassanein quickly became a fan favorite with his personality and unique story. His measurables were fine but he had awesome production at Boise State and has great size for the position. He has a relentless motor and never takes a snap off. I don't know if he's athletic enough to be a pass rushing specialist but I think his background implies he can be a really nice depth piece. Nice 6th rounder. The two Georgia picks were classic Brad Holmes Special Teamers. Don't love taking another WR in Dominic Lovett but it's a 7th rounder so I don't really care that much. I actually think Dan Jackson can be fine as a 4th safety and won't kill you if he plays. Excellent instincts and improved every year. I don't think either guy will ever be a long-term solution at any point but you need depth and Special Teamers like them.
5. I think the defense has a chance to be top 10 in the 2025 season. I think that having Kelvin Sheppard incorporate more zone is going to benefit the defense in general. I think the stringent man-to-man coverage Glenn demanded was too easy to scout. I think Sheppard bringing in different looks and being more unpredictable will improve Detroit from there. The other thing is this back 7 has a chance to be absolutely special. DJ Reed is a slight upgrade from Carlton Davis and I think his signing showed Detroit will play more zone. Brian Branch and Kerby Joseph is the best safety tandem in the NFL. Amik Robertson showed he was an extremely valuable slot CB and can play outside. Terrion Arnold survived as a rookie and was much better in the second half of the year. This secondary has a chance to take another leap and be special. I also like the depth with Ennis Rakestraw finally healthy, Avante Maddox and Rock Ya-Sin being brought in as legitimate depth was a good sign. I just think this unit can be elite. The linebacking corps is a top 10 in the NFL IMO. Derrick Barnes was really productive before his injury. Jack Campbell went to a Pro Bowl level in 2024. The next step is All-Pro. Alex Anzalone (potential holdout???) is a staple of the defense. Trevor Nowaske did admirable as an UDFA in 2024 and should be better. Getting Rodrigo back in the second half of 2025 will be nice. I just think this back 7 could be top 5 overall with how deep the group is and the potential. Also, some fun odds for Brian Branch as DPOY.
6. The one thing that could prevent this Lions defense from being elite is the depth of the front 4. There are so many questions regarding this group. Can Aidan Hutchinson regain his DPOY form from last year? How long will Alim McNeill be out and can be the pro bowl DT he was pre-ACL injury? Can Josh Paschal stay healthy? Can Marcus Davenport play more than 3 games? How good is Tyleik Williams from day 1? Can one of Brodric Martin (lol) or Mekhi Wingo provide depth while Alim is out? Can the Lions get something from the other EDGE spot consistently? If Hutchinson is 100% from day 1 and Reader/Williams are healthy, they should be stout against the run. I just have a lot of concerns about the pass rush outside of Hutch. When McNeil comes back, I will feel better. I don't think ZaDarius Smith fixes everything if they bring him back. I do like how many bodies there are but I will feel better when I see #97 lining up for the first snap of the year.
7. I think we could see some massive, massive seasons from the Lions skill positions. Gibbs is being used more as a slot WR, which could bring some nightmare matchups for opposing defense. Jameson Williams had a breakout 2024 season and is ready to take another leap. Amon-Ra St.Brown will continue to be a top 5 WR in the league and we know David Montgomery will churn yards and TD's. I think Sam LaPorta is due for a breakout. He suffered an injury in the year and it seemed to slow him down. I think teams were so concerned about defending between the numbers against Detroit that the game script just phased LaPorta out some. He has 37 less targets than his rookie year and I think Morton is going to work more towards giving LaPorta a bigger share of targets.
8. Three players need to step up for the Detroit Lions in 2025. The first one is Christian Mahogany. It was only two starts but holy hell did he look like a future monster at the OG position. He was awesome in the playoff game against the Commanders and he will have a full offseason to be the RG. I actually think he can be better than Zeitler was last year which would be a huge win with replacing Ragnow. The second one is Terrion Arnold. I think the penalties overshadowed that he rarely got outright burned as a rookie CB. There wasn't much playmaking but he did exactly what needed as a run defender and he was much better the second half of the year. D.J. Reed will probably take #1 guys but they need Arnold to be consistent and lay off the penalties. The third player I would throw in is Mekhi Wingo. Probably not fair but with Alim McNeill and Levi Onwuzurike missing (at minimum) the first month of the year, they need a real interior pass rusher. Wingo didn't jump out as a rookie in 2024 but brought pressure in the interior. D.J. Reader isn't an every down player anymore and Tyleik Williams will have an adjustment period. Pat O'Connor is heart and hustle but he's not going to make noise. They need somebody they can bring in on obvious passing downs to help generate pressure inside and Wingo showed he could do that.
9. As we get more and more into the summer, I am starting to become less concerned about the actual offensive structure. It's possible the Lions offense isn't as explosive as the previous 2 years with the OL concerns and just the natural regression expected with a new play caller. But, I think the offense will be top 10. This is Dan Campbell's baby, he designed the overall offensive philosophy and he is still here. Jared Goff has been successful with multiple playcallers, so a new OC isn't a major adjustment. The skill position group might be the best in the NFL (ok, 2nd best behind Philly). And the Lions are going to have a massive chip on their shoulders because every single pundit has brought up Ben Johnson is no longer there. John Morton is a Sean Payton guy, has been in the building with a significant portion of the offense and has experience calling plays. Plus at 55, he's probably not going to be one foot out the door in January. Even if Detroit isn't as fancied, I wouldn't mind working their strengths better and stop being so flashy in the passing game. The offense is too talented to be bad.
10. It was not a splashy offseason nor was I expecting one. Despite dreams of Myles Garrett or TJ Watt in Honolulu blue, the Lions went about the offseason trying to find the holes in a 15-2 season. They got stronger at DT, upgraded the secondary depth and went younger at OL. The Ragnow retirement was not shocking based off how Detroit handled it. The infrastructure and core of this organization is sound. Brad Holmes is still the GM and Dan Campbell is still the head coach. With those two in place, I will not be worried about the franchise, they've earned my trust. But I think expectations have (rightfully) changed. No longer is this the cute underdog. This is a program that has won 29 games the last 2 years with playoffs included. That's T-2nd in the NFL. They lead the league in regular season wins the last two years. Last year's playoff loss was understandable despite the unforced errors they made. Losing the two coordinators has been discussed ad nauseum but sometimes getting fresh ideas is a good thing. The goal is the Super Bowl. If they can stay healthy and the interior of the OL can be steady, a parade in February could be very possible.
1. I'm a selfish human being. When I saw Frank Ragnow retire, I was thinking "Man, you couldn't have tried one more year?" But I know how tough Ragnow is and the fact he announced it in May tells me that he didn't have it anymore. He has an inoperable toe injury and his knees have been shot the last two years. He played last year with a partially torn pectoral muscle and was an All-Pro. It sucks but with how much these guys make I get it. It's not impossible to overcome (I remember the think pieces about Kelce retiring in Philly) but it's a tough blow with such an important season upcoming. We will see how Ratledge does and I get wanting him to be the C when his measurables after perfect for the position. Graham Glasgow was bad last year but he's got a ton of snaps at center and Trystan Colon can also fill that spot if need be. There's enough talent in the interior I think they can work around it. OL is tough because it's incredibly difficult to improve that position at the deadline or with training camp cuts. They need Mahogany to be healthy and a legit mauler, and they need Decker to be what he was in 2022-2023 after I thought he took a step back in 2024. They still have Penei Sewell, which means it's almost impossible to have a bad OL. But Hank Fraley has his work cut out for him in 2025.
2. I didn't do a draft recap so here's my overall thoughts. Tyleik Williams wasn't on my initial board but I think it was an overall good pick. Williams was a shutdown run defender with great size and solid production that was the anchor in the middle for Ohio State's defense. They needed a stout run defender with DJ Reader in his 30's and on a one year deal. Brodric Martin was a miss and they can't count on him to be anything moving forward. Williams has shown solid pass rushing capabilities as well but he should be an impact player day 1. He'll get a chance to start with McNeill out the first few weeks. If he can show the pass rushing capabilities from his first two years at Ohio State with that natural ability to blow up the interior, the Lions could have a steal on their hands. We will see what happens with Tate Ratledge at C but he will be a starting OL in the NFL. I loved that pick and I think he's a day one starter. Awesome measurables, constant production and a real mean streak everybody wants in their offensive lineman. He showed some real ability to pull and be used creatively at the guard position. This was my favorite pick of the draft and I won't be surprised if Ratledge is getting Pro Bowl votes by year 2.
3. Okay, so I still don't get the Isaac TeSlaa pick and I'll explain. The first is the asset management. I hate giving up two 3rd rounders in 2026 (their own and one of the comp picks for Glenn). I know they moved up 32 spots in the round and they got two 6th rounders with it. I just hate giving up that many picks when you need cheap complimentary pieces with all the contract extensions. It's one thing to give up a 4th and couple 5ths for Brodric Martin when you already had 5 players you drafted before Martin. But they also traded a 3rd rounder to move up for Giovani Manu the previous season. He played 0 snaps in the regular season. The second is I know TeSlaa has insane measurables and he blocks his ass off and is a great kid. I know Arkansas was not the pinnacle of passing success and he didn't play with an elite QB. He still didn't produce enough in college for the price. If you take him at 102 and do not trade any picks, sure that's fine. But giving up that many assets for that player at a position where they really don't need any WR help, is just a mistake to me. I thought it was a ridiculous trade up. If you are giving up that much for the #70 pick, it better for a projected day 1 starter and TeSlaa isn't that. But Brad Holmes is a top 5 NFL GM so maybe I should give him a break.
4. I thought Miles Frazier was exactly like the Mahogany pick, a top 100 prospect that fell to the fifth and too talented to pass up. Maybe it was the medicals, maybe it was the slew of interior lineman drafted on day 2, but it's insane he fell to the 5th round. He's was an elite pass protector at the guard spot and even played some tackle and center. He has to become a better run blocker and has some leverage issues but Hank Fraley can fix that. He probably won't start day 1, but with how bad Glasgow was last year and Zeitler leaving, they needed to take another interior lineman for depth. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a 2026 starter. Ahmed Hassanein quickly became a fan favorite with his personality and unique story. His measurables were fine but he had awesome production at Boise State and has great size for the position. He has a relentless motor and never takes a snap off. I don't know if he's athletic enough to be a pass rushing specialist but I think his background implies he can be a really nice depth piece. Nice 6th rounder. The two Georgia picks were classic Brad Holmes Special Teamers. Don't love taking another WR in Dominic Lovett but it's a 7th rounder so I don't really care that much. I actually think Dan Jackson can be fine as a 4th safety and won't kill you if he plays. Excellent instincts and improved every year. I don't think either guy will ever be a long-term solution at any point but you need depth and Special Teamers like them.
5. I think the defense has a chance to be top 10 in the 2025 season. I think that having Kelvin Sheppard incorporate more zone is going to benefit the defense in general. I think the stringent man-to-man coverage Glenn demanded was too easy to scout. I think Sheppard bringing in different looks and being more unpredictable will improve Detroit from there. The other thing is this back 7 has a chance to be absolutely special. DJ Reed is a slight upgrade from Carlton Davis and I think his signing showed Detroit will play more zone. Brian Branch and Kerby Joseph is the best safety tandem in the NFL. Amik Robertson showed he was an extremely valuable slot CB and can play outside. Terrion Arnold survived as a rookie and was much better in the second half of the year. This secondary has a chance to take another leap and be special. I also like the depth with Ennis Rakestraw finally healthy, Avante Maddox and Rock Ya-Sin being brought in as legitimate depth was a good sign. I just think this unit can be elite. The linebacking corps is a top 10 in the NFL IMO. Derrick Barnes was really productive before his injury. Jack Campbell went to a Pro Bowl level in 2024. The next step is All-Pro. Alex Anzalone (potential holdout???) is a staple of the defense. Trevor Nowaske did admirable as an UDFA in 2024 and should be better. Getting Rodrigo back in the second half of 2025 will be nice. I just think this back 7 could be top 5 overall with how deep the group is and the potential. Also, some fun odds for Brian Branch as DPOY.
6. The one thing that could prevent this Lions defense from being elite is the depth of the front 4. There are so many questions regarding this group. Can Aidan Hutchinson regain his DPOY form from last year? How long will Alim McNeill be out and can be the pro bowl DT he was pre-ACL injury? Can Josh Paschal stay healthy? Can Marcus Davenport play more than 3 games? How good is Tyleik Williams from day 1? Can one of Brodric Martin (lol) or Mekhi Wingo provide depth while Alim is out? Can the Lions get something from the other EDGE spot consistently? If Hutchinson is 100% from day 1 and Reader/Williams are healthy, they should be stout against the run. I just have a lot of concerns about the pass rush outside of Hutch. When McNeil comes back, I will feel better. I don't think ZaDarius Smith fixes everything if they bring him back. I do like how many bodies there are but I will feel better when I see #97 lining up for the first snap of the year.
7. I think we could see some massive, massive seasons from the Lions skill positions. Gibbs is being used more as a slot WR, which could bring some nightmare matchups for opposing defense. Jameson Williams had a breakout 2024 season and is ready to take another leap. Amon-Ra St.Brown will continue to be a top 5 WR in the league and we know David Montgomery will churn yards and TD's. I think Sam LaPorta is due for a breakout. He suffered an injury in the year and it seemed to slow him down. I think teams were so concerned about defending between the numbers against Detroit that the game script just phased LaPorta out some. He has 37 less targets than his rookie year and I think Morton is going to work more towards giving LaPorta a bigger share of targets.
8. Three players need to step up for the Detroit Lions in 2025. The first one is Christian Mahogany. It was only two starts but holy hell did he look like a future monster at the OG position. He was awesome in the playoff game against the Commanders and he will have a full offseason to be the RG. I actually think he can be better than Zeitler was last year which would be a huge win with replacing Ragnow. The second one is Terrion Arnold. I think the penalties overshadowed that he rarely got outright burned as a rookie CB. There wasn't much playmaking but he did exactly what needed as a run defender and he was much better the second half of the year. D.J. Reed will probably take #1 guys but they need Arnold to be consistent and lay off the penalties. The third player I would throw in is Mekhi Wingo. Probably not fair but with Alim McNeill and Levi Onwuzurike missing (at minimum) the first month of the year, they need a real interior pass rusher. Wingo didn't jump out as a rookie in 2024 but brought pressure in the interior. D.J. Reader isn't an every down player anymore and Tyleik Williams will have an adjustment period. Pat O'Connor is heart and hustle but he's not going to make noise. They need somebody they can bring in on obvious passing downs to help generate pressure inside and Wingo showed he could do that.
9. As we get more and more into the summer, I am starting to become less concerned about the actual offensive structure. It's possible the Lions offense isn't as explosive as the previous 2 years with the OL concerns and just the natural regression expected with a new play caller. But, I think the offense will be top 10. This is Dan Campbell's baby, he designed the overall offensive philosophy and he is still here. Jared Goff has been successful with multiple playcallers, so a new OC isn't a major adjustment. The skill position group might be the best in the NFL (ok, 2nd best behind Philly). And the Lions are going to have a massive chip on their shoulders because every single pundit has brought up Ben Johnson is no longer there. John Morton is a Sean Payton guy, has been in the building with a significant portion of the offense and has experience calling plays. Plus at 55, he's probably not going to be one foot out the door in January. Even if Detroit isn't as fancied, I wouldn't mind working their strengths better and stop being so flashy in the passing game. The offense is too talented to be bad.
10. It was not a splashy offseason nor was I expecting one. Despite dreams of Myles Garrett or TJ Watt in Honolulu blue, the Lions went about the offseason trying to find the holes in a 15-2 season. They got stronger at DT, upgraded the secondary depth and went younger at OL. The Ragnow retirement was not shocking based off how Detroit handled it. The infrastructure and core of this organization is sound. Brad Holmes is still the GM and Dan Campbell is still the head coach. With those two in place, I will not be worried about the franchise, they've earned my trust. But I think expectations have (rightfully) changed. No longer is this the cute underdog. This is a program that has won 29 games the last 2 years with playoffs included. That's T-2nd in the NFL. They lead the league in regular season wins the last two years. Last year's playoff loss was understandable despite the unforced errors they made. Losing the two coordinators has been discussed ad nauseum but sometimes getting fresh ideas is a good thing. The goal is the Super Bowl. If they can stay healthy and the interior of the OL can be steady, a parade in February could be very possible.
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Also, my projected 53 man roster
QB: Goff, Hooker (2)
RB: Gibbs, Montgomery, Reynolds, Vaki (4)
WR: St. Brown, Williams, Patrick, Raymond, TeSlaa, Lovett (6)
TE: LaPorta, Wright, Zylstra (3)
OT: Sewell, Decker, Manu, Skipper (4)
IOL: Glasgow, Mahogany, Rutledge, Colon, Frazier (5)
EDGE: Hutchinson, Davenport, Paschal, Muhammad, Hassanein (5)
IDL: Reader, Williams, Lopez, O'Connor, Wingo (5)
LB: Campbell, Anzalone, Barnes, Nowaske, Stuard, Pittman (6)
CB: Reed, Arnold, Robertson, Rakestraw, Ya-Sin, Dorsey (6)
S: Joseph, Branch, Maddox, Jackson (4)
Special Teams: Bates, Fox, Hatten (3)
PUP: McNeill, Onwuzurike, Rodriguez
QB: Goff, Hooker (2)
RB: Gibbs, Montgomery, Reynolds, Vaki (4)
WR: St. Brown, Williams, Patrick, Raymond, TeSlaa, Lovett (6)
TE: LaPorta, Wright, Zylstra (3)
OT: Sewell, Decker, Manu, Skipper (4)
IOL: Glasgow, Mahogany, Rutledge, Colon, Frazier (5)
EDGE: Hutchinson, Davenport, Paschal, Muhammad, Hassanein (5)
IDL: Reader, Williams, Lopez, O'Connor, Wingo (5)
LB: Campbell, Anzalone, Barnes, Nowaske, Stuard, Pittman (6)
CB: Reed, Arnold, Robertson, Rakestraw, Ya-Sin, Dorsey (6)
S: Joseph, Branch, Maddox, Jackson (4)
Special Teams: Bates, Fox, Hatten (3)
PUP: McNeill, Onwuzurike, Rodriguez
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