The Official “Regular Posters of the Basketball Forum” Thread

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The discussion about offense/defense got me thinking about who we are similar to, so checked out Barttorvik because they have the model that will compare your team to past teams and match you with most similar profiles based on offense/defense/tempo.

Compare Efficiency Profiles - Customizable College Basketball Tempo Free Stats - T-Rank

Louisville under Rick Pitino is a common theme here, the 3 most similar are 2009, 2011 & 2015 Louisville, thought that was pretty interesting. The site only goes back to 2008, but from there…

Tennessee current numbers:
Offense: 108.0 for 85th nationally
Defense: 88.1 for 4th nationally
Tempo: 69.9 for 112th nationally



2009 Louisville: 1 seed Elite 8
Offense: 112.0 for 32nd nationally
Defense: 85.4 for 2nd nationally
Tempo: 68.2 for 105th nationally

2015 Louisville: 4 seed Elite 8
Offense: 109.4 for 59th nationally
Defense: 87.4 for 4th nationally
Tempo: 65.6 for 135th nationally

2011 Louisville: 4 Seed R64
Offense: 110.7 for 48th nationally
Defense: 89.1 for 3rd nationally
Tempo: 68.0 for 100th nationally
Wow, I'd like 2 of those 3 comparisons to come true.
 
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Wow, I'd like 2 of those 3 comparisons to come true.
The next 2 closest profiles were of Purdue teams 2009 & 2010 that both made the Sweet 16, 4 seed & 5 seed. So Top 5 similar teams were all 5 seeds or better, 2 E8’s, 2 S16’s and 1 R64 loss.

While you are here, curious of your thoughts on Ziegler with half the season gone?
 
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Discussion =/= handwringing

We have quite a few high rated recruits that aren't getting as many minutes as they probably expected/wanted. And the free transfer has changed things on if a player sticks around long enough to earn minutes.
Handwringing =/= literally twisting palms.

There are obviously concerns as evidenced by the discussion. That is the climate of the NCAA in 2022. I’m confident that if any low minute player leaves through the portal that the spot will be filled with a comparable player or even an upgrade is made by addressing a deficiency. If TN is loaded at the wing or guard and the 7th or 8th guy leaves, maybe a 3rd or 4th guy in the post replaces them.
 

MoCo_Vol

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Handwringing =/= literally twisting palms.

There are obviously concerns as evidenced by the discussion. That is the climate of the NCAA in 2022. I’m confident that if any low minute player leaves through the portal that the spot will be filled with a comparable player or even an upgrade is made by addressing a deficiency. If TN is loaded at the wing or guard and the 7th or 8th guy leaves, maybe a 3rd or 4th guy in the post replaces them.
Yeah hopefully...

Was curious so I looked up guys who have left

Drew Pember @ UNC Asheville: 11.6 ppg, 5.9 rbpg, 1.3 apg, 3.7 bpg
Davonte Gaines @ George Mason: 11.2 ppg, 8.1 rbpg, 1.2 apg, 0.9 spg
EJ Anosike @ Cal State Fullerton: 17.5 ppg, 7.3 rbpg, 1.3 apg, 0.6 bpg
Corey Walker @ USF: 3.0 ppg, 2.8 rbpg, 1.3 spg
DJ Burns @ Winthrop: 16.4 ppg, 4.8 rpbg, 1.0 apg, 0.7 spg
Derrick Walker @ Nebraska: 10.2 ppg, 6.3 rbpg, 1.3 apg, 1.1 spg, 1.2 bpg

Obviously they all stepped down in competition, but happy to see Gaines & Pember specifically doing well at their new spots.
 
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Yeah hopefully...

Was curious so I looked up guys who have left

Drew Pember @ UNC Asheville: 11.6 ppg, 5.9 rbpg, 1.3 apg, 3.7 bpg
Davonte Gaines @ George Mason: 11.2 ppg, 8.1 rbpg, 1.2 apg, 0.9 spg
EJ Anosike @ Cal State Fullerton: 17.5 ppg, 7.3 rbpg, 1.3 apg, 0.6 bpg
Corey Walker @ USF: 3.0 ppg, 2.8 rbpg, 1.3 spg
DJ Burns @ Winthrop: 16.4 ppg, 4.8 rpbg, 1.0 apg, 0.7 spg
Derrick Walker @ Nebraska: 10.2 ppg, 6.3 rbpg, 1.3 apg, 1.1 spg, 1.2 bpg

Obviously they all stepped down in competition, but happy to see Gaines & Pember specifically doing well at their new spots.
Transfers that’d still have eligibility had they stayed
 
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The next 2 closest profiles were of Purdue teams 2009 & 2010 that both made the Sweet 16, 4 seed & 5 seed. So Top 5 similar teams were all 5 seeds or better, 2 E8’s, 2 S16’s and 1 R64 loss.

While you are here, curious of your thoughts on Ziegler with half the season gone?
Sorry, just saw your response.

First off, LOVE HIM. I think I was pretty spot on in pre-season expectations. He doesn't finish all that much around the basket when contested due to his size but as a freshman I don't think that's any kind of a shocker. He shoots decently but not stellar. His defense is tenacious and he plays so dang hard at all times. Better passer and takes care of the ball better than I expected as a first year player too which is a major pleasant surprise. To me, the last two points (taking care of the ball and overall effort/D) are why he's seeing the minutes he's seeing. He's had a couple solid scoring outbursts which were greatly needed and I hope to see that happening more as the season develops.

I expected Powell/Santi to have to take more of the backup PG roles this year and that still happens with Santi but what I didn't expect was an enjoyable 2-guard lineup with either Santi/ZZ or Chandler/ZZ. ZZ's ability to play off ball in this offense as a secondary ballhandler in those lineups is definitely something I don't think anyone quite saw coming and therefore allows his minutes to be much higher.

What has changed for me is that I see a fire and competitiveness that gives me confidence that he will improve all those areas as he continues to develop physically and mature his body. If he's the same player by Year 4 I will be insanely disappointed. He's not only solidified himself as a role player, but as a possible starter in the future on an SEC team.
 

cncchris33

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Remember when UK allegedly stopped recruiting Hatfield because of his lack of motor? They were probably right.
I certainly remember, because I believe I'm the one that brought it up, IIRC.

Of course, I was met with contention because it wasn't sunshine and rainbows, but the book on him was always "tremendous talent, questionable effort".

Kentucky had other options and didn't feel the risk was worth the reward.

Tennessee felt like they could coach effort out of him, and frankly, Barnes has a history of doing that before (see Schofield, Admiral), and he's failed to do it with a few others. Time will tell which camp BHH falls into. Tennessee also had fewer options having missed on several post targets, and a bigger need in the post, so BHH was more of a priority than he was for UK. And if we're honest with ourselves, Tennessee has to take more risks than Kentucky does because of brand and name recognition.
 

cncchris33

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Yeah, I’ve wondered about that a lot. Still, it’s interesting that Barnes does say he’s come a long, long way.
Which likely tells you where he was at the time, and probably lends additional credence to schools like UK who allegedly questioned his motor and effort.
 

berryvol

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I certainly remember, because I believe I'm the one that brought it up, IIRC.

Of course, I was met with contention because it wasn't sunshine and rainbows, but the book on him was always "tremendous talent, questionable effort".

Kentucky had other options and didn't feel the risk was worth the reward.

Tennessee felt like they could coach effort out of him, and frankly, Barnes has a history of doing that before (see Schofield, Admiral), and he's failed to do it with a few others. Time will tell which camp BHH falls into. Tennessee also had fewer options having missed on several post targets, and a bigger need in the post, so BHH was more of a priority than he was for UK. And if we're honest with ourselves, Tennessee has to take more risks than Kentucky does because of brand and name recognition.
I remember this, and also remember tons pushing back because of the idea that cal will take any 5 star. One thing that cal and Barnes have in common, is they will not tolerate a half-assed effort out of anyone. Cal teams play very hard on both ends, just like Barnes teams do. I also remember people refuting this idea because UK took Oscar T. when WVU was putting out there that he lacked consistent effort. Everyone has seen how that has shaken out too. I’m not sure there’s another player in NCAAB that puts out the effort on both ends that Oscar does.
 

MoCo_Vol

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I remember this, and also remember tons pushing back because of the idea that cal will take any 5 star. One thing that cal and Barnes have in common, is they will not tolerate a half-assed effort out of anyone. Cal teams play very hard on both ends, just like Barnes teams do. I also remember people refuting this idea because UK took Oscar T. when WVU was putting out there that he lacked consistent effort. Everyone has seen how that has shaken out too. I’m not sure there’s another player in NCAAB that puts out the effort on both ends that Oscar does.
We've got 2 on our team that do...:cool:

Honestly I think Barnes & the culture here is the best situation for BHH to learn how to put the effort in constantly if his goal is to get to the NBA. But my biggest worry is if he's mentally not tough enough for it. I don't think DJ Burns was and that's why he is where he is. Sure his stat line looks great, now in year 3 there (and his 4th year in college) but he still is only getting 21 minutes a game and isn't a full effort end to end guy.
 
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