The obvious problem to me (semi long)

[revjayp]

I know I bang this drum often but being in the health and wellness industry, it’s what stands out the most to me.

We haven’t had a genuine S&C program in over 10 years and it shows every week. It’s been said that Jones didn’t make them work out at all and all he ever asked them to do was check in from time to time. Lunacy.

Sure, we’ve had some players who value and understand they must get stronger and faster but for the most part, it was never emphasized by Jones or Dooley. Coaches all over the country take 2-3* players and develop them schematically but also physically so that by the time they have been in their program 3-4 years they have excelled beyond their initial rating. The NFL is littered with these guys. They had the IQ but needed the development physically to make it. And they did. Not saying you don’t need high rated guys because you absolutely do. But as we’ve witness firsthand with BJ’s recruits, the ratings don’t always tell the whole story. (See Drew Richmond for an example.)

Our boys are slow and weak. Many opponents have called us soft. They’re right. Blame Pruitt, blame Helton even blame the players but if we’re looking at the Bama model, look at what they pay their S&C coach and and measure good teams against that. I promise you theirs a corelation between the 2.

 

[GetYouSomeofThat]

I know I bang this drum often but being in the health and wellness industry, it’s what stands out the most to me.

We haven’t had a genuine S&C program in over 10 years and it shows every week. It’s been said that Jones didn’t make them work out at all and all he ever asked them to do was check in from time to time. Lunacy.

Sure, we’ve had some players who value and understand they must get stronger and faster but for the most part, it was never emphasized by Jones or Dooley. Coaches all over the country take 2-3* players and develop them schematically but also physically so that by the time they have been in their program 3-4 years they have excelled beyond their initial rating. The NFL is littered with these guys. They had the IQ but needed the development physically to make it. And they did. Not saying you don’t need high rated guys because you absolutely do. But as we’ve witness firsthand with BJ’s recruits, the ratings don’t always tell the whole story. (See Drew Richmond for an example.)

Our boys are slow and weak. Many opponents have called us soft. They’re right. Blame Pruitt, blame Helton even blame the players but if we’re looking at the Bama model, look at what they pay their S&C coach and and measure good teams against that. I promise you theirs a coloration between the 2.

Our guys were plenty strong enough to win this game.

CBJ hired a S&C coach from the NFL widely regarded as one of the best. To say there was no emphasis on it is simply more excuse making for the current staff.

 

[Roustabout]

I know I bang this drum often but being in the health and wellness industry, it’s what stands out the most to me.

We haven’t had a genuine S&C program in over 10 years and it shows every week. It’s been said that Jones didn’t make them work out at all and all he ever asked them to do was check in from time to time. Lunacy.

Sure, we’ve had some players who value and understand they must get stronger and faster but for the most part, it was never emphasized by Jones or Dooley. Coaches all over the country take 2-3* players and develop them schematically but also physically so that by the time they have been in their program 3-4 years they have excelled beyond their initial rating. The NFL is littered with these guys. They had the IQ but needed the development physically to make it. And they did. Not saying you don’t need high rated guys because you absolutely do. But as we’ve witness firsthand with BJ’s recruits, the ratings don’t always tell the whole story. (See Drew Richmond for an example.)

Our boys are slow and weak. Many opponents have called us soft. They’re right. Blame Pruitt, blame Helton even blame the players but if we’re looking at the Bama model, look at what they pay their S&C coach and and measure good teams against that. I promise you theirs a coloration between the 2.

S&C is about consistency and commitment.
I have a friend who is and Iowa State grad and knows Matt Campbell. He set a rule his first year that if you were late for 5:50 lifting, twice, you were off the team. He kicked his best RB off the team. Everyone else fell in line. Lawson was a good S&C coach. Butch fired him due players complaining.

Thats why we’re where we are. That defense is gassed.

 

[Cartervol]

Carolina ran for 224 yards. They pushed us around pretty much. That's with 4 senior dlinemen. Kentucky will go for 400. They might not attempt a pass all game.

 

[General_Neyland]

We have the same team we had last year. S&C or a lack of is not all it is. It's lack of SEC level talent. We are a Butch Jones assembled team. University of Cincinnati @knoxville

 

[revjayp]

Our guys were plenty strong enough to win this game.

CBJ hired a S&C coach from the NFL widely regarded as one of the best. To say there was no emphasis on it is simply more excuse making for the current staff.

Forget about last nights game. Look at this from the past 3-5 years. Soft. We’ve been consistently destroyed at the LOS.

Also, BJ hired him in what year of his tenure? Year 5. And yes, he was a great hire. But it takes 2 years to see major results. An OLmen isn’t going to gain 20lbs of muscle and put on massive strength in a few months. It hasn’t been an emphasis until Fitz was hired-in year 1.

 

[maotai]

I saw a team that was a little more physical than South Carolina last night. I also saw a defensive minded coach that was unable to figure out how to stop an offense that just made one adjustment. Once South Carolina put two tight ends into the game Pruitt did not have an answer and it showed in the team as the game wore on.

 

[Boca Vol]

Our guys were plenty strong enough to win this game.

CBJ hired a S&C coach from the NFL widely regarded as one of the best. To say there was no emphasis on it is simply more excuse making for the current staff.

Exactly. Many on here thought Rock was the missing piece. Also, Pruitt's S&C coach can very highly regarded.

We have the same team we had last year. S&C or a lack of is not all it is. It's lack of SEC level talent. We are a Butch Jones assembled team. University of Cincinnati @knoxville

I just don't understand how all of those recruiting services were so wrong for so many years regarding UT! LOL!

 

[revjayp]

Guys, stop looking at last night. If you don’t, you’re completely missing my point of emphasis. Scheming, outcoached, execution, whatever. Not my point.

We have weak minded and weak bodied players. I coach amateur golfers on the mental approach to the game. Golf is hard enough physically but if you go into each tournament expecting to lose or dreading certain shots, you will not compete at the highest level.

Our boys have a defeated mindset and feel like losers. They are getting beat physically and have been beat mentally for years. That has to change in the entire locker room. I believe that’s what Pruitt means when he says “play the right way”. He sees that there are guys who’ve been able to slide by without any accountability in the gym and on the field.

 

[revjayp]

Exactly. Many on here thought Rock was the missing piece. Also, Pruitt's S&C coach can very highly regarded.

He was and given them time it takes, would’ve been able to work his program. But it takes more than 1 off season. And in all likelihood, BJ tried to control that as well. Word is all he asked them to do is “sign in”. Work outs were an option.

 

[rusty11]

I saw a team that was a little more physical than South Carolina last night. I also saw a defensive minded coach that was unable to figure out how to stop an offense that just made one adjustment. Once South Carolina put two tight ends into the game Pruitt did not have an answer and it showed in the team as the game wore on.

We lost because we played a team that shouldn't be on our schedule anymore last week. Still, we had somebody come back to beat us after leading the whole game. I would say that's an improvement, but until we wise up and make Arkansas or Ole Miss our permanent opponent from the West, we will continue to struggle after that 3rd Saturday in October. We'll all see that fact kill our chances of a Division title some day in the future. Freaken UF will go to Atlanta because we just had to have that 3rd Saturday ass whoopin that leads to another loss shortly thereafter.

 

[JMSqb11]

Once again, let’s judge when Pruitt’s recruits make up the majority of the roster aka 3 recruiting classes.

A lot of the Butch holdovers are Snakebit. I can’t say I blame because they are victims of the awfulness of Butch. Will just be happy when the majority of the roster has only had one S&C and System to go thru.

 

[tennesseeduke]

Exactly. Many on here thought Rock was the missing piece. Also, Pruitt's S&C coach can very highly regarded.



I just don't understand how all of those recruiting services were so wrong for so many years regarding UT! LOL!

It takes more than spring and summer to catch up after 3 yrs of not doing anything. Go lay on the couch for a few weeks and then run a 5k and see how you feel.

 

[Boca Vol]

Why? It's not like these players are all couch potatoes. Plus, there was plenty of booms on here during the '16 off-season with players hitting new marks in S&C. I would say the the aTm game that season showed the conditioning wasn't as bad as many want to say.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Rev, I get it, and I think that's probably one element (out of many) that need to improve for us to get back to championship football.

But it's amazing how, as long as a coach is in favor, he's the one with the S&C staff who are leading all the players to personal bests, and incredible workouts. Then as soon as that head coach is out of favor, it turns out he wasn't emphasizing S&C at all, the players were just paying lip service to the weight room, and often they just signed in every day without doing any work.

Mark these words: if Pruitt doesn't work out, it will become evident to all of Vol Nation that his S&C program was slack, turrible, and inexcusable. But whoever replaces him will have, at least temporarily, one of the best S&C programs going.

Fact is, we fans just don't know. S&C is simply another aspect to question when things aren't going well. We're like mechanics who aren't allowed to lift the hood or crank the motor, but insist we can diagnose the engine's problems anyway.

 

[Boca Vol]

It takes more than spring and summer to catch up after 3 yrs of not doing anything. Go lay on the couch for a few weeks and then run a 5k and see how you feel.

That is such BS!

 

[Boca Vol]

Rev, I get it, and I think that's probably one element (out of many) that need to improve for us to get back to championship football.

But it's amazing how, as long as a coach is in favor, he's the one with the S&C staff who are leading all the players to personal bests, and incredible workouts. Then as soon as that head coach is out of favor, it turns out he wasn't emphasizing S&C at all, the players were just paying lip service to the weight room, and often they just signed in every day without doing any work.

Mark these words: if Pruitt doesn't work out, it will become evident to all of Vol Nation that his S&C program was slack, turrible, and inexcusable. But whoever replaces him will have, at least temporarily, one of the best S&C programs going.

Fact is, we fans just don't know. S&C is simply another aspect to question when things aren't going well. We're like mechanics who aren't even allowed to lift the hood or crank the motor, but insist we can diagnose the engine's problems anyway.

Exactly!

 

[YankeeVol]

It takes more than spring and summer to catch up after 3 yrs of not doing anything. Go lay on the couch for a few weeks and then run a 5k and see how you feel.

Pretty good actually. A 5K is nothing

 

[kiddiedoc]

This is a nonsense argument. All we heard about in the off-season was how great our strength training was under the prior regime. Weight room pics, videos of Hurd running 50 miles an hour on an uphill treadmill and squatting a Mack truck, yada yada yada... I just don't buy it.

Mentality? Coaching? Sheer talent? Sure, I can buy all three of those. But, we sure as heck haven't been sitting on the couch for four years.

 

[revjayp]

Rev, I get it, and I think that's probably one element (out of many) that need to improve for us to get back to championship football.

But it's amazing how, as long as a coach is in favor, he's the one with the S&C staff who are leading all the players to personal bests, and incredible workouts. Then as soon as that head coach is out of favor, it turns out he wasn't emphasizing S&C at all, the players were just paying lip service to the weight room, and often they just signed in every day without doing any work.

Mark these words: if Pruitt doesn't work out, it will become evident to all of Vol Nation that his S&C program was slack, turrible, and inexcusable. But whoever replaces him will have, at least temporarily, one of the best S&C programs going.

Fact is, we fans just don't know. S&C is simply another aspect to question when things aren't going well. We're like mechanics who aren't allowed to lift the hood or crank the motor, but insist we can diagnose the engine's problems anyway.

JP, while we agree on almost everything, I’ll have to disagree on this. I know from firsthand knowledge how inept Dooley and Jones we’re as it pertained to S&C. I’m not just guessing or assuming. For most programs, the S&C is run like a separate entity. Many say the S&C coach is the most important because he gets to be with the players the most. Go back and look at the hires made by Dooley and Jones. Zero effort was made until Rock was hired. All i have to do is look how bad we’re blown off the line all season to see our deficiencies.

 

[NighthawkVol]

I know I bang this drum often but being in the health and wellness industry, it’s what stands out the most to me.

We haven’t had a genuine S&C program in over 10 years and it shows every week. It’s been said that Jones didn’t make them work out at all and all he ever asked them to do was check in from time to time. Lunacy.

Sure, we’ve had some players who value and understand they must get stronger and faster but for the most part, it was never emphasized by Jones or Dooley. Coaches all over the country take 2-3* players and develop them schematically but also physically so that by the time they have been in their program 3-4 years they have excelled beyond their initial rating. The NFL is littered with these guys. They had the IQ but needed the development physically to make it. And they did. Not saying you don’t need high rated guys because you absolutely do. But as we’ve witness firsthand with BJ’s recruits, the ratings don’t always tell the whole story. (See Drew Richmond for an example.)

Our boys are slow and weak. Many opponents have called us soft. They’re right. Blame Pruitt, blame Helton even blame the players but if we’re looking at the Bama model, look at what they pay their S&C coach and and measure good teams against that. I promise you theirs a coloration between the 2.

This is as spot on as any post I’ve seen in awhile.

 

[savannahfan]

I know I bang this drum often but being in the health and wellness industry, it’s what stands out the most to me.

We haven’t had a genuine S&C program in over 10 years and it shows every week. It’s been said that Jones didn’t make them work out at all and all he ever asked them to do was check in from time to time. Lunacy.

Sure, we’ve had some players who value and understand they must get stronger and faster but for the most part, it was never emphasized by Jones or Dooley. Coaches all over the country take 2-3* players and develop them schematically but also physically so that by the time they have been in their program 3-4 years they have excelled beyond their initial rating. The NFL is littered with these guys. They had the IQ but needed the development physically to make it. And they did. Not saying you don’t need high rated guys because you absolutely do. But as we’ve witness firsthand with BJ’s recruits, the ratings don’t always tell the whole story. (See Drew Richmond for an example.)

Our boys are slow and weak. Many opponents have called us soft. They’re right. Blame Pruitt, blame Helton even blame the players but if we’re looking at the Bama model, look at what they pay their S&C coach and and measure good teams against that. I promise you theirs a coloration between the 2.

In your first "blame" paragraph you call out prior coaches.
In your second "blame" paragraph you now blame the current staff. Which is it? The players seem to be way ahead of last year in development. I don't think you can "build" supermen in one off season. Are we not paying our s&c coach pretty good now?

 

[revjayp]

In your first "blame" paragraph you call out prior coaches.
In your second "blame" paragraph you now blame the current staff. Which is it? The players seem to be way ahead of last year in development. I don't think you can "build" supermen in one off season. Are we not paying our s&c coach pretty good now?

I’m 100% blaming the administration of the past 10 years. All of them. I’m NOT blaming the current staff at all. They’ve not even been here a full year so the gains aren’t going to be as significant yet. We ARE paying them good and I believe we will see a significant difference next year. Problem is, it takes 2-3 years of this to have a solid base. It can’t just be our starters. To me, there’s 3 aspects to building a strong program:
-recruiting
-development
-strength and conditioning.
Hopefully we will achieve all of this with Pruitt.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Butch is a complete idiot but I'd like to see where it's been reported that he didn't make the team work out at all and just check in occassionally.

 

[savannahfan]

I’m 100% blaming the administration of the past 10 years. All of them. I’m NOT blaming the current staff at all. They’ve not even been here a full year so the gains aren’t going to be as significant yet. We ARE paying them good and I believe we will see a significant difference next year. Problem is, it takes 2-3 years of this to have a solid base. It can’t just be our starters. To me, there’s 3 aspects to building a strong program:
-recruiting
-development
-strength and conditioning.
Hopefully we will achieve all of this with Pruitt.

Sorry!
I meant to add "if I understand you right" Which I didn't... Your response mirrors pretty much how I feel...