The myth that Dan Mullen is a great coach

#77
#77
Sub Par SUPERSTAR said:
1980 was WAYYYY longer ago.
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"Relevance" does not necessarily equal "having won a recent national championship." By that definition, very, very few teams are currently relevant, but that isn't the case.

Georgia is waaaaaay more relevant of a program right now even though Tennessee has a more recent national title. Georgia Tech has a more recent national title than Georgia does too. Nebraska has won multiple titles since Georgia won their last one. Does it means they're more relevant than Georgia?
 
#79
#79
05_never_again said:
In year 1. Then he went 12-2 in year 2 and almost won the SEC. Kind of a different situation.
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No actual elite coach in college football has lost at home as a 24 point favorite, I guarantee you..

So, Nick isn’t elite? Interesting.
I just simply reminded him that this statement was, False
 
#81
#81
secking said:
No actual elite coach in college football has lost at home as a 24 point favorite, I guarantee you..

So, Nick isn’t elite? Interesting.
I just simply reminded him that this statement was, False
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I know what you meant by that. People have been making an argument that Pruitt isn't elite because he lost to Georgia St. You're coming in and saying "Aha! But Saban lost to ULM, and he's elite! Gotcha!"

Saban lost to ULM in year 1 (not the year 2 season opener) and year 2 for Saban culminated in a 12-0 regular season and narrow loss to Urban in the SECCG, who went on to win the title. Saban also had already won a national title at LSU at that point and had a bunch of HC experience. So the situations are in no way comparable.
 
#83
#83
secking said:
You were wrong
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False equivalence...You know good and well Nick Saban losing to ULM in year one with an unranked Alabama is not in the same stratosphere as Kirby Smart losing to South Carolina at home in year four with arguably the most talented team in the country...I'm not falling for that crap, and no one else is either.
 
#84
#84
05_never_again said:
I know what you meant by that. People have been making an argument that Pruitt isn't elite because he lost to Georgia St. You're coming in and saying "Aha! But Saban lost to ULM, and he's elite! Gotcha!"

Saban lost to ULM in year 1 (not the year 2 season opener) and year 2 for Saban culminated in a 12-0 regular season and narrow loss to Urban in the SECCG, who went on to win the title. Saban also had already won a national title at LSU at that point and had a bunch of HC experience. So the situations are in no way comparable.
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I’m not justifying the loss, shouldn’t have happened. I can find inexplicable losses on every coach. I will ask, what should have the coaches done differently that day? You aren’t beating any team n the SEC with a turnover ratio of 4-0 and 2 missed FGs.

Better offense? Perhaps, but shouldn’t 500 yards be enough? Better defense? Perhaps, but giving up 10 points should be enough??

Start of 4th, the sequence was
Fumble inside the SC 30
Int inside the SC 25
TD
Int inside the SC 25
Missed FG

You deserve to lose with those stats.
 
#85
#85
Sub Par SUPERSTAR said:
False equivalence...You know good and well Nick Saban losing to ULM in year one with an unranked Alabama is not in the same stratosphere as Kirby Smart losing to South Carolina at home in year four with arguably the most talented team in the country...I'm not falling for that crap, and no one else is either.
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You stated an absolute. You were wrong. Just own it
 
#87
#87
Sub Par SUPERSTAR said:
It wasn't stated an "absolute" absolute, you know what I meant and I'm not gonna argue.
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LOL it wasn’t stated as an “absolute” absolute, think I’ll screenshot that. Let me ask you, is Mullen elite? An absolute yes or no will suffice.
 
#88
#88
secking said:
LOL it wasn’t stated as an “absolute” absolute, think I’ll screenshot that. Let me ask you, is Mullen elite? An absolute yes or no will suffice.
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Look back in this thread for the answer to that question...You comparing apples and oranges losses of Kirby and Saban is clownish though.
 
#91
#91
Sub Par SUPERSTAR said:
Again, look back in the thread and you'll see my answer...No point in repeating myself.
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Ok, you said maybe so I’ll help. If you go by your own definition of elite, the answer is No. Elite coach would never lose at home to 20+ underdog. Mullen lost to SOUTH Alabama at home while being a 28 point favorite in year 8? I think it was year 8?

I wouldn’t hold that against him, honestly. It’s hard enough to get 1 teenager to something right every time for 3 hours, good luck with 85 of them. They read their clippings, feel entitled, girlfriend problems, school problems, etc. Point is, they aren’t always focused on the task at hand or take the other team lightly, as I’m sure MSU didn’t against S AL. So, even a “good” coach still has these type of games.

Btw, Urban Meyer has lost them too. Remember 08 and the speech? Yep 23 point underdogs was the mighty men of Ole Miss.
 
#92
#92
Dudleys87 said:
The problem is with all that talent he’s done nothing. It’s not like Kirby has to reach very far outside the state to get what he doesent have. Most is right in his back yard. Continually loaded with talent and they’ve beat Bama once to my knowledge.

So yes I’d say Kirby underachieves.
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Kirby has never beaten Bama/Saban.

Since we've established that beating Bama/Saban is the benchmark for being an elite coach, then these coaches are in the Elite Club:
  • Mark Richt (what? that can't be)
  • Bobby Bowden
  • Les Miles (3)
  • Sylvester Croom
  • Charlie Weatherbie (a good man)
  • Tommy Tuberville
  • Urban Meyer (2)
  • Kyle Whittingham
  • Steve Spurrier
  • Gene Chizik
  • Kevin Sumlin
  • Gus Malzahn (2)
  • Bob Stoops
  • Hugh Freeze (2) --can coach from a hospital bed, if needed
  • Dabo Swinney (2)
While it's fair to say that there may be a HOF coach or two in this list, beating Bama/Saban
is not a requisite for elite-ness and does not necessarily ensure elite status. But I'm sure all these guys enjoy telling their grandsons about the time they beat Saban.
 
#93
#93
secking said:
Ok, you said maybe so I’ll help. If you go by your own definition of elite, the answer is No. Elite coach would never lose at home to 20+ underdog. Mullen lost to SOUTH Alabama at home while being a 28 point favorite in year 8? I think it was year 8?

I wouldn’t hold that against him, honestly. It’s hard enough to get 1 teenager to something right every time for 3 hours, good luck with 85 of them. They read their clippings, feel entitled, girlfriend problems, school problems, etc. Point is, they aren’t always focused on the task at hand or take the other team lightly, as I’m sure MSU didn’t against S AL. So, even a “good” coach still has these type of games.

Btw, Urban Meyer has lost them too. Remember 08 and the speech? Yep 23 point underdogs was the mighty men of Ole Miss.
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Oh I remember, bud...That Ole Miss team that we lost to in 08' was absolutely putrid and did nothing the rest of the year.
 
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#94
#94
BAMA-DAWG said:
Kirby has never beaten Bama/Saban.

Since we've established that beating Bama/Saban is the benchmark for being an elite coach, then these coaches are in the Elite Club:
  • Mark Richt (what? that can't be)
  • Bobby Bowden
  • Les Miles (3)
  • Sylvester Croom
  • Charlie Weatherbie (a good man)
  • Tommy Tuberville
  • Urban Meyer (2)
  • Kyle Whittingham
  • Steve Spurrier
  • Gene Chizik
  • Kevin Sumlin
  • Gus Malzahn (2)
  • Bob Stoops
  • Hugh Freeze (2) --can coach from a hospital bed, if needed
  • Dabo Swinney (2)
While it's fair to say that there may be a HOF coach or two in this list, beating Bama/Saban
is not a requisite for elite-ness and does not necessarily ensure elite status. But I'm sure all these guys enjoy telling their grandsons about the time they beat Saban.
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Is Kirby an elite coach?
 
#95
#95
Sub Par SUPERSTAR said:
Is Kirby an elite coach?
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No, elite recruiter, good coach. Even then, the good coaches evolve and learn, they all have things they can learn from. I think Kirby still needs to get better at time management. He will do well, then you are scratching your head (not as bad as Charlie Strong last night) but still. As for Urban, at least that OM game was close and not like the Purdue or Iowa games where he just got his doors blown off. It happens.
 
#96
#96
secking said:
No, elite recruiter, good coach. Even then, the good coaches evolve and learn, they all have things they can learn from. I think Kirby still needs to get better at time management. He will do well, then you are scratching your head (not as bad as Charlie Strong last night) but still. As for Urban, at least that OM game was close and not like the Purdue or Iowa games where he just got his doors blown off. It happens.
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And if he doesn't adapt, is too stubborn to adapt, or just really isn't good enough as an in game coach to make it happen, then what?
 
#97
#97
Sub Par SUPERSTAR said:
And if he doesn't adapt, is too stubborn to adapt, or just really isn't good enough as an in game coach to make it happen, then what?
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EVERY coach I know is stubborn to some degree, from HS coaches to college, even peewee and little league are to some extent. You have to believe in yourself or no one will but same advice Bowden gave Richt, Saban gave all his coaches, etc. you have to be yourself. The ones who do grow/learn/adapt last longer...
 
#98
#98
secking said:
EVERY coach I know is stubborn to some degree, from HS coaches to college, even peewee and little league are to some extent. You have to believe in yourself or no one will but same advice Bowden gave Richt, Saban gave all his coaches, etc. you have to be yourself. The ones who do grow/learn/adapt last longer...
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I realize that you didn't start this thread but because the clown who did certainly won't respond, I'd like to know why it's okay to insinuate that Kirby Smart is a good coach and Dan isn't when there's evidence in every direction to prove both, neither, or a mixture of, are true?
 
#99
#99
secking said:
I’m not justifying the loss, shouldn’t have happened. I can find inexplicable losses on every coach. I will ask, what should have the coaches done differently that day? You aren’t beating any team n the SEC with a turnover ratio of 4-0 and 2 missed FGs.

Better offense? Perhaps, but shouldn’t 500 yards be enough? Better defense? Perhaps, but giving up 10 points should be enough??

Start of 4th, the sequence was
Fumble inside the SC 30
Int inside the SC 25
TD
Int inside the SC 25
Missed FG

You deserve to lose with those stats.
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Of course you can find inexplicable losses with any coach. But if a coach has inexplicable losses coupled with a bunch of huge wins, then you can conclude he's an elite coach. I wouldn't say that no elite coach would lose as a huge underdog because, as you've point out, there are elite coaches out there with plenty of inexplicable losses.

Pruitt, on the other hand, has multiple inexplicable (like Georgia St) or bad (like Mizzou and Vandy last year) losses, and, needless to say, hasn't contrasted them with a bunch of huge victories or hardware. When Saban lost to ULM, he had already won a title, and in year 2 Saban went 12-0 and almost won the SEC/had a chance to play for a title. Pruitt, to put it mildly, isn't close to those feats in year 2.
 
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#100
#100
Sub Par SUPERSTAR said:
Is Kirby an elite coach?
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Time will tell, dude. Time will tell. No one said Kirby is elite because he beat Mullen. It appears that you're bashing Kirby because you're chapped that your guy lost the game Saturday.
I believe the original premise of the thread is that many in the media and elsewhere thought Mullen was the better coach in the East because of his relative success in year one at FL and the fact that the Dawgs lost to a 24-point USCe dog at home. Maybe the programs were on two different trajectories.
The result in JAX last Saturday afternoon dispelled that line of thinking. Mullen, who lost his starting QB early in the season and was amazingly able to plug in a more-than-capable backup, probably had his best chance to beat the Dawgs Saturday considering the talent he has leaving at the end of the season. UGA is a very young team. There are kids on the roster that you have never heard of who would start at any other SECEast school. Just as Bama has been light years ahead of everyone else in the conference because of the embarrassment of riches at virtually every position, UGA has strung together consecutive top tier recruiting classes which will only make the hill tougher to climb for East opponents. in the years to come.
As I've said before, there are a handful of really good teams at the top and UGA is one of them. Will Kirby win a Natty soon? I think so. Before Mullen? Probably.
 
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