The laughable recruiting paradox of Butch Haters

[PagingDrVol]

Four years ago, when Hurd, Dobbs, JRM, TKJ, etc. we're all true freshmen, and the cupboard was otherwise bare, the Butch Haters were up in arms because we didn't go to a bowl game with "all that talent." When it was pointed out that that "talent" had no experience, the haters told us that talent was talent, and if Butch was a decent coach at all he'd coach them up to at least Citrus Bowl status after years of 5-6 records.

The underlying whine: Butch Sucks (we should have hired Charlie Strong!!)

Fast forward to today. We come off two consecutive years of 9-4 (we are beating NU) and are loaded with 4/5 star freshmen and are headed to a top 10 recruiting class to back them up. But now we hear from the Butch Haters that JG, Callaway, Fils-Aime, etc. won't be ready to beat Mizzou next year, Trey Smith needs eons of time to develop, and we are doomed to go 6-6.

The underlying whine: Butch Sucks (I want to hire a mythical fairy who will never come here).

Which one is it, whiners?

 

[TNDeb3]

Four years ago, when Hurd, Dobbs, JRM, TKJ, etc. we're all true freshmen, and the cupboard was otherwise bare, the Butch Haters were up in arms because we didn't go to a bowl game with "all that talent." When it was pointed out that that "talent" had no experience, the haters told us that talent was talent, and if Butch was a decent coach at all he'd coach them up to at least Citrus Bowl status after years of 5-6, 4-7 records.

The underlying whine: Butch Sucks (we should have hired Charlie Strong!!)

Fast forward to today. We come off two consecutive years of 9-4 (we are beating NU) and are loaded with 4/5 star freshmen and are headed to a top 10 recruiting class to back them up. But now we hear from the Butch Haters that JG, Callaway, Fils-Aime, etc. won't be ready to beat Mizzou next year, and we are doomed to go 6-6.

The underlying whine: Butch Sucks (I want to hire a mythical fairy who will never come here).

Which one is it, whiners?

:thumbsup:Good question! Can't wait to read their replies.


:rock:
GBO!!!

 

[grobin4300]

Four years ago, when Hurd, Dobbs, JRM, TKJ, etc. we're all true freshmen, and the cupboard was otherwise bare, the Butch Haters were up in arms because we didn't go to a bowl game with "all that talent." When it was pointed out that that "talent" had no experience, the haters told us that talent was talent, and if Butch was a decent coach at all he'd coach them up to at least Citrus Bowl status after years of 5-6, 4-7 records.

The underlying whine: Butch Sucks (we should have hired Charlie Strong!!)

Fast forward to today. We come off two consecutive years of 9-4 (we are beating NU) and are loaded with 4/5 star freshmen and are headed to a top 10 recruiting class to back them up. But now we hear from the Butch Haters that JG, Callaway, Fils-Aime, etc. won't be ready to beat Mizzou next year, and we are doomed to go 6-6.

The underlying whine: Butch Sucks (I want to hire a mythical fairy who will never come here).

Which one is it, whiners?

The mark of a GREAT coach is winning the games your supposed to win and 1 or 2 that you are NOT supposed to win............recruit well (he has done), coach them up (he is fair at best), ... all I have to say in 2017 is "PUT UP or SHUT UP" w/ all the cliché's, just roll your sleeves up and say "watch me work"......

 

[Titan05]

The mark of a GREAT coach is winning the games your supposed to win and 1 or 2 that you are NOT supposed to win............recruit well (he has done), coach them up (he is fair at best), ... all I have to say in 2017 is "PUT UP or SHUT UP" w/ all the cliché's, just roll your sleeves up and say "watch me work"......

This

 

[zeppelin128]

I think most people question some of Butch's gameday coaching decisions, not his ability to recruit talent. And there is nothing wrong with that, healthy criticism is a good thing.

We also never went 4-7.

 

[landscapingvol]

Butch deserves to be criticized over the defensive performance this year. It was unacceptable and I hope CBJ takes the steps to correct it. If he does, then he deserves a chance to fix it. If he does not, then his seat will get much hotter. I don't think people realize just how costly it was to lost all four starting d-tackles and JRM.

 

[PagingDrVol]

I think most people question some of Butch's gameday coaching decisions, not his ability to recruit talent. And there is nothing wrong with that, healthy criticism is a good thing.

We also never went 4-7.

Fixed. My bad.

 

[93TNVol]

Four years ago, when Hurd, Dobbs, JRM, TKJ, etc. we're all true freshmen, and the cupboard was otherwise bare, the Butch Haters were up in arms because we didn't go to a bowl game with "all that talent." When it was pointed out that that "talent" had no experience, the haters told us that talent was talent, and if Butch was a decent coach at all he'd coach them up to at least Citrus Bowl status after years of 5-6, 4-7 records.

The underlying whine: Butch Sucks (we should have hired Charlie Strong!!)

Fast forward to today. We come off two consecutive years of 9-4 (we are beating NU) and are loaded with 4/5 star freshmen and are headed to a top 10 recruiting class to back them up. But now we hear from the Butch Haters that JG, Callaway, Fils-Aime, etc. won't be ready to beat Mizzou next year, and we are doomed to go 6-6.

The underlying whine: Butch Sucks (I want to hire a mythical fairy who will never come here).

Which one is it, whiners?

Good luck bro! You would get better answers if you asked a bunch of monkeys to explain quantum physics.

 

[Behr]

This is not the best way to get them to " stop" which is what a lot of people want. There are plenty of threads on this subject, I'm guessing in at least 3 different forums.

Jmo.

 

[Volst53]

Four years ago, when Hurd, Dobbs, JRM, TKJ, etc. we're all true freshmen, and the cupboard was otherwise bare, the Butch Haters were up in arms because we didn't go to a bowl game with "all that talent." When it was pointed out that that "talent" had no experience, the haters told us that talent was talent, and if Butch was a decent coach at all he'd coach them up to at least Citrus Bowl status after years of 5-6, 4-7 records.

The underlying whine: Butch Sucks (we should have hired Charlie Strong!!)

Fast forward to today. We come off two consecutive years of 9-4 (we are beating NU) and are loaded with 4/5 star freshmen and are headed to a top 10 recruiting class to back them up. But now we hear from the Butch Haters that JG, Callaway, Fils-Aime, etc. won't be ready to beat Mizzou next year, Trey Smith needs eons of time to develop, and we are doomed to go 6-6.

The underlying whine: Butch Sucks (I want to hire a mythical fairy who will never come here).

Which one is it, whiners?

Butch is an average coach that has left wins on the table every year he's been here. I don't think that's good enough, but you're more than welcome to believe otherwise.

He is putting in the work and time in recruiting but he's also not killing it either.

 

[PagingDrVol]

Good luck bro! You would get better answers if you asked a bunch of monkeys to explain quantum physics.

They're already running and hiding from the question by focusing on game day decision making.

Never mind that BY FAR the reason most often given for their expected slide in record next year is "we will be too inexperienced."

Should be fun!

 

[Volst53]

They're already running and hiding from the question by focusing on game day decision making.

Never mind that BY FAR the reason most often given for their expected slide in record next year is "we will be too inexperienced."

Should be fun!

The schedule will be harder next year, while having to replace a lot of production. This was the perfect mix of having a really talented roster and a pretty easy schedule this year.

The expectation should have been 10 wins. Tennessee dropped the ball and is a middle of a pack team in a down SEC.

 

[KBVol]

Four years ago, when Hurd, Dobbs, JRM, TKJ, etc. we're all true freshmen, and the cupboard was otherwise bare, the Butch Haters were up in arms because we didn't go to a bowl game with "all that talent." When it was pointed out that that "talent" had no experience, the haters told us that talent was talent, and if Butch was a decent coach at all he'd coach them up to at least Citrus Bowl status after years of 5-6, 4-7 records.

The underlying whine: Butch Sucks (we should have hired Charlie Strong!!)

Fast forward to today. We come off two consecutive years of 9-4 (we are beating NU) and are loaded with 4/5 star freshmen and are headed to a top 10 recruiting class to back them up. But now we hear from the Butch Haters that JG, Callaway, Fils-Aime, etc. won't be ready to beat Mizzou next year, Trey Smith needs eons of time to develop, and we are doomed to go 6-6.

The underlying whine: Butch Sucks (I want to hire a mythical fairy who will never come here).

Which one is it, whiners?

Last time we had a team go 4-7 was 1977....39 years and 5 head coaches/staffs ago. Also, despite your projection, we're currently 8-4....haven't won that 9th game quite yet.

I'll just say this. As happy as I was that Butch landed Trey Smith yesterday, it wasn't as happy as I would've been and in fact have been in other years of his tenure here when he's landed highly rated players with great potential. He still has to develop and win at a championship level with these top/outstanding recruits and, quite frankly, he's been lacking in both those areas.

 

[PagingDrVol]

Butch is an average coach that has left wins on the table every year he's been here. I don't think that's good enough, but you're more than welcome to believe otherwise.

He is putting in the work and time in recruiting but he's also not killing it either.

I'm not disputing that we've lost two games we shouldn't, over a four year period, both this year. We all agree on that.

I'm just asking why logic is now getting twisted around to assume failure NEXT year.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Tennessee should never be in a position that Vanderbilt dictates which bowl the Vols end up in. It's happened twice now in 4 seasons.

 

[MedicT]

This is not the best way to get them to " stop" which is what a lot of people want. There are plenty of threads on this subject, I'm guessing in at least 3 different forums.

Jmo.

Some people cope with disappointment better than others. Some need an online forum to whine, thats all. LOL

 

[Volst53]

I'm not disputing that we've lost two games we shouldn't, over a four year period, both this year. We all agree on that.

I'm just asking why logic is now getting twisted around to assume failure NEXT year.

We've lost more than two games in 4 years that we shouldn't have. He's lost games every year that he shouldn't have.

I think that will keep being an issue and recruiting is already starting to slip, and we'll have held on pass Butch past his self life here.

 

[Dudleys87]

Four years ago, when Hurd, Dobbs, JRM, TKJ, etc. we're all true freshmen, and the cupboard was otherwise bare, the Butch Haters were up in arms because we didn't go to a bowl game with "all that talent." When it was pointed out that that "talent" had no experience, the haters told us that talent was talent, and if Butch was a decent coach at all he'd coach them up to at least Citrus Bowl status after years of 5-6 records.

The underlying whine: Butch Sucks (we should have hired Charlie Strong!!)

Fast forward to today. We come off two consecutive years of 9-4 (we are beating NU) and are loaded with 4/5 star freshmen and are headed to a top 10 recruiting class to back them up. But now we hear from the Butch Haters that JG, Callaway, Fils-Aime, etc. won't be ready to beat Mizzou next year, Trey Smith needs eons of time to develop, and we are doomed to go 6-6.

The underlying whine: Butch Sucks (I want to hire a mythical fairy who will never come here).

Which one is it, whiners?

I'm assuming that you think it's safe bet Tennessee beats Nebraska? You should probably ease off that confidence a bit.

What have those 3 done to make you so confident? Calloway returned a punt against a weak team and Fils Aime first carry was a fumble. There's zero chance JG starts given Jones' philosophy of senior of talent. Smith has enough talent to Start day one with the only sure fires are Jones and Hall.

 

[05_never_again]

I'm not disputing that we've lost two games we shouldn't, over a four year period, both this year. We all agree on that.

I'm just asking why logic is now getting twisted around to assume failure NEXT year.

Butch has more than proven he's not a good game day coach. Oklahoma, Florida, and Arkansas proved that last year and he had two inexcusable losses this year. IMO, that makes me seriously doubt if he is a championship-level coach. He can prove me wrong if he continues to recruit and get some better assistant coaches, particularly on the offensive side of the ball.

Despite going 8-4 in the regular season just like last year, the team actually played worse than last year. I don't quite see how that's possible given the talent we had returning at all sorts of key positions. If two plays go differently, we would have been 6-6 and the conversation about Butch is a different one entirely.

 

[luthervol]

We've lost more than two games in 4 years that we shouldn't have. He's lost games every year that he shouldn't have.

I think that will keep being an issue and recruiting is already starting to slip, and we'll have held on pass Butch past his self life here.

I'm convinced that you intentionally write like a 5th grader as part of your on-line persona.

 

[Dudleys87]

Being winless against arguably one of the worst head coaches in the league doesn't help either

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

I'm not disputing that we've lost two games we shouldn't, over a four year period, both this year. We all agree on that.

I'm just asking why logic is now getting twisted around to assume failure NEXT year.

Why should expectations be higher for next season than they were this season when they are replacing a senior QB and the nucleus of what used to be a solid defense next season?

Logic dictates there will be struggles at QB with unproven talent and replacing a likely 1st round talent on the d line and a couple of other players sure to be drafted in Sutton and Maybin. Where does the leadership on defense come next season?

Factor in that there has been very little shown by the coaching staff that they can maintain or even handle success at the SEC level. They certainly did a poor job of it this season.

 

[Dudleys87]

I'm convinced that you intentionally write like a 5th grader as part of your on-line persona.

Writing aside, Butch is always going to be Butch. He's going to win some he shouldn't and he'll drop one or two he never should. That's life that's him.

 

[PagingDrVol]

The schedule will be harder next year, while having to replace a lot of production. This was the perfect mix of having a really talented roster and a pretty easy schedule this year.

Uh, no. The schedule will not at all be harder. It will be easier.
aTm there >= LSU here
App St > Indiana St
VT > GT
Ohio > SoMiss
TennTech = Umass
Plus the 4 hard games are all scattered out rather than stacked.

But what we are really talking about here is the replacement of a lot of production you refer to. This is my very point. Why in the mind of the Hater were we supposed to expect a radical jump in performance in year 1 due to an influx of talented freshmen, but now that we have all the pieces in place in year 4, Fr and Fr-RS, suddenly don't count?

Butch is not going to get worse at coaching. Based on the Butch Haters own argument from year 1, that means the worst we do in 2017 is 9-4.

 

[zeppelin128]

I don't consider next year to be an automatic failure: it is just too soon to tell how the development of all this great talent will transpire. Will Mahoney and Martinez be replaced? Will the troubling pattern of injuries be fixed by a new S&C coordinator? Will DeBord retire? Does Shoop get full control over his defense?

Recruiting has never been an issue for Butch: it is what happens when they get on the Hill that many posters question.