The Kellie Harper Doomsday Clock is now the Kim Caldwell Doomsday Clock

#326
#326
DeerPark12 said:
Because NIL and revenue sharing are not educational benefits, according to a ruling from the justice department last year. Title IX only covers educational related spending, so it does apply to anything the school spends directly on student athletes like scholarships and travel. It does not apply to coaching salaries or revenue that is shared with athletes. NIL is done outside of the college environment, since those payments are not made by the school.
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It’s why the Adidas contract is so huge with Edwards.
 
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#327
#327
DeerPark12 said:
It’s true they don’t have the same money to offer as the volunteer club, but the volunteer club was also trying to raise money to pay for the back half of rosters in football, basketball and baseball. They were also given access to the football and men’s basketball donor databases to raise funds.

To answer another posters question, Sam Williams advocated for the volunteer club to take over the entire NIL operation, and tried to get Danny White on board for that. While they eventually got involved in providing some first year guarantees, the collectives were ultimately not merged because the volunteer club does not allow donors to direct to which programs their monies support. That was a dealbreaker for me and why I have always cut my checks to the boost her club or worked with an event at a local business to pay athletes directly.
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The 'first year guarantees' is exactly why Harper's staff couldn't close deals and why Caldwell can. Where did you get your numbers that the LVBHC provided 'millions of dollars' to women's athletes? Shouldn't the lead recruiter advocating for more funds tell you that what they were getting wasn't adequate?

I was a donor, too, and supposedly on the board, but Terrie never disclosed any numbers to me. I was aware of the early corporate deals with a few of the players, but most of those went by the wayside. Until the Ann Furrow deal with Rickea, she actually had me calling car dealers to get her a car to drive her last year, because the dealer she had lined up previously pulled her car...that deal fell through, too, BTW.

None of the information I was provided and things she had me doing felt like they were a multi-million dollar operation. We were constantly being solicited to pay players for dinners and we were also calling local business to help solicit sponsorships and donations. I know of another donor that provided Jordan Houston a used car, etc. The AD had to help get enough people to attend a $1K event at Kellie's house before her last season to raise NIL funds. There may have been 30 - 40 people there.

The numbers that I've heard for the current roster are shocking and far exceed what any player got during Harper's tenure. Rickea could have gotten much more in today's world, but I was led to believe that all it took to get her to stay her senior year was a car and enough money to match her potential WNBA salary. No other player came close to that.
 
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#330
#330
LVBB_Legacy said:
The 'first year guarantees' is exactly why Harper's staff couldn't close deals and why Caldwell can. Where did you get your numbers that the LVBHC provided 'millions of dollars' to women's athletes? Shouldn't the lead recruiter advocating for more funds tell you that what they were getting wasn't adequate?

I was a donor, too, and supposedly on the board, but Terrie never disclosed any numbers to me. I was aware of the early corporate deals with a few of the players, but most of those went by the wayside. Until the Ann Furrow deal with Rickea, she actually had me calling car dealers to get her a car to drive her last year, because the dealer she had lined up previously pulled her car...that deal fell through, too, BTW.

None of the information I was provided and things she had me doing felt like they were a multi-million dollar operation. We were constantly being solicited to pay players for dinners and we were also calling local business to help solicit sponsorships and donations. I know of another donor that provided Jordan Houston a used car, etc. The AD had to help get enough people to attend a $1K event at Kellie's house before her last season to raise NIL funds. There may have been 30 - 40 people there.
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I am comfortable with the numbers that myself and people I know personally have given and that their businesses have done to provide NIL funds and opportunities to athletes in several women’s sports, including basketball.

Even with your obvious dislike for Caldwell, I don’t understand why you continue to stump for Harper. Even in the pre-NIL era, her ceiling was 4th in the league and the sweet 16. Those are fine accomplishments of many programs, but not at Tennessee. When, after five years, you are still at that ceiling and then sign exactly one recruit in two years and had zero commitments for the next two classes, I don’t see how there was any other choice but to move on from her.
 
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#331
#331
DeerPark12 said:
I am comfortable with the numbers that myself and people I know personally have given and that their businesses have done to provide NIL funds and opportunities to athletes in several women’s sports, including basketball.

Even with your obvious dislike for Caldwell, I don’t understand why you continue to stump for Harper. Even in the pre-NIL era, her ceiling was 4th in the league and the sweet 16. Those are fine accomplishments of many programs, but not at Tennessee. When, after five years, you are still at that ceiling and then sign exactly one recruit in two years and had zero commitments for the next two classes, I don’t see how there was any other choice but to move on from her.
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She was not given a fair opportunity to recruit. COVID restrictions the first two years and then NIL kicked in without the support needed to be competitive. You remember Angel Reese telling us to 'get your money up'? She should have been given that financial support to see how she did with competitive funds before evaluating her coaching.

I don't dislike Caldwell, I dislike what she's doing to a program that I've supported from the Pat Summitt days. She's not demonstrated that she can recruit and coach the players needed to be competitive in the conference and nationally. This season has been disappointing and embarrassing in the depths that the program has sunk to.

Making it to the Sweet Sixteen with the 6 McDonalds All Americans she has on the roster shouldn't be the ceiling, but with a 16-12 record going into the tournaments, that's going to be a tough hill to climb.
 
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#332
#332
DeerPark12 said:
I am comfortable with the numbers that myself and people I know personally have given and that their businesses have done to provide NIL funds and opportunities to athletes in several women’s sports, including basketball.

Even with your obvious dislike for Caldwell, I don’t understand why you continue to stump for Harper. Even in the pre-NIL era, her ceiling was 4th in the league and the sweet 16. Those are fine accomplishments of many programs, but not at Tennessee. When, after five years, you are still at that ceiling and then sign exactly one recruit in two years and had zero commitments for the next two classes, I don’t see how there was any other choice but to move on from her.
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The recruiting part is the part nobody wants to talk about with Harper. She was let go because our recruiting was dead in the water. We were looking at having Jewel Spear, Tess Darby, Jill and 5 mid-major transfers.
 
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#333
#333
VolBall09 said:
The recruiting part is the part nobody wants to talk about with Harper. She was let go because our recruiting was dead in the water. We were looking at having Jewel Spear, Tess Darby, Jill and 5 mid-major transfers.
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Truth is for what Tennessee wants to do Harper was not going to be the answer five years is long enough to see that was a fact. Based on these past two season hard to believe Caldwell is going to be the answer either. In fact unless she really loads up and along with that changes her entire basketball strategy she will be finished in three. Will she even make it past April? We were all thinking Harper had one more season for sure and boom April came and it was over.
 
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#334
#334
Volfan2012 said:
Truth is for what Tennessee wants to do Harper was not going to be the answer five years is long enough to see that was a fact. Based on these past two season hard to believe Caldwell is going to be the answer either. In fact unless she really loads up and along with that changes her entire basketball strategy she will be finished in three. Will she even make it past April? We were all thinking Harper had one more season for sure and boom April came and it was over.
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Hard to say, not the same program, but Shae was under .500 in her second season at Vandy and I was screaming for them to pull the plug.

Building a culture takes time.

Sometimes there are bumps in the road. This whole season was a MASSIVE speed bump. If next season is no better? I’m ready to move on. You get less time at Tennessee imo.

I did give up on this team and really didn’t watch the games after the loss to MSST. Could just see the writing on the wall. I haven’t completely given up on the program but I wasn’t about to rearrange my day to watch players who didn’t care about winning.
 
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#335
#335
I'd be shocked if Caldwell is anywhere near being replaced. Mostly because DW has so much of his massive ego tied up in her hire. She will get every chance. Plus, to be fair her staff has recruited very well.

But also just as importantly sisters and brothers, we're stuck. Even in the face of historic disaster we're in, pulling the plug at two years would give pause to any potential new coach. Most of the coaching fraternity thought Harper was fired too soon at five years. No notable successful coach was interested then, so how in the world would any be interested now?

Also getting a new coach is a lot about the luck of timing - who's available that we can we afford etc. I never want to fire another coach without a very clear quality prospect as at least a potential replacement. This program can never go through this kind of amateur hour again.

Caldwell definitely gets next year IMO and next year will be somewhat better just because it's not this year. Just the reset should help some And,oddly, the fact that this year has been so horrific will help her because the bar has been drug incredibly low. Now instead of advancing the program further than Kellie did, all she has to do is improve on the incredible midness of this year.
 
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#336
#336
glv98 said:
I'd be shocked if Caldwell is anywhere near being replaced. Mostly because DW has so much of his massive ego tied up in her hire. She will get every chance. Plus, to be fair her staff has recruited very well.

But also just as importantly sisters and brothers, we're stuck. Even in the face of historic disaster we're in, pulling the plug at two years would give pause to any potential new coach. Most of the coaching fraternity thought Harper was fired too soon at five years. No notable successful coach was interested then, so how in the world would any be interested now?

Also getting a new coach is a lot about the luck of timing - who's available that we can we afford etc. I never want to fire another coach without a very clear quality prospect as at least a potential replacement. This program can never go through this kind of amateur hour again.

Caldwell definitely gets next year IMO and next year will be somewhat better just because it's not this year. Just the reset should help some And,oddly, the fact that this year has been so horrific will help her because the bar has been drug incredibly low. Now instead of advancing the program further than Kellie did, all she has to do is improve on the incredible midness of this year.
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I think this is a fair take. CKC is still a young coach and hopefully she learned a few lessons this season with the transfer portal.

I'm still unsure if her scheme will work at this level but I think she should be given a 3rd year as long as she is increasing talent every year.
 
#337
#337
james_govols said:
I think this is a fair take. CKC is still a young coach and hopefully she learned a few lessons this season with the transfer portal.
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Not a young coach. 37 yrs old, over a decade as HC, completing 3rd full yr in D1, nearly 100 D1 games.

Frightfully unprepared and unskilled at running a program like the LVs? Obviously.

But she is not a young coach and this is not a particularly young team.
 
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#338
#338
Maybe, just maybe the Freshmen return for Sophomore season with a chip on their shoulders and show what they got... adding Big O and Minus will help tremendously... like I said in another thread . Still need to add a couple of Snipers from 3 point range from Porthole..
 
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#339
#339
glv98 said:
Not a young coach. 37 yrs old, over a decade as HC, completing 3rd full yr in D1, nearly 100 D1 games.

Frightfully unprepared and unskilled at running a program like the LVs? Obviously.

But she is not a young coach and this is not a particularly young team.
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37 is still a young coach to me. This is her first big gig also.

She hasn't had to deal with the egos and politics at this level of the sport.

Maybe inexperienced would be a better word.
 
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#340
#340
knoxvol52 said:
Maybe, just maybe the Freshmen return for Sophomore season with a chip on their shoulders and show what they got... adding Big O and Minus will help tremendously... like I said in another thread . Still need to add a couple of Snipers from 3 point range from Porthole..
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Maybe they return period. Seems some of them will think we Niled them up fairly well. I want the five back with Cooper and Latham bring on Edwards and Minus. Get me a big Bully and two three point geniuses and we'll try this again next season,
 
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#342
#342


Danny says great job behind a paywall, but looks like there are no problems with the AD as of yet.
 
#345
#345
Volfan2012 said:


Danny says great job behind a paywall, but looks like there are no problems with the AD as of yet.
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No, the problems are here - for now. It's become clear in the last three days that this board has turned on her. Every little thing now is a controversial firestorm. Every bit of dirty laundry is the latest reason Danny White should show her the door. Things that would normally be a nothingburger, or that are a nothingburger for other programs, are now a SMASHBURGER of anger around here. I think a lot of folks have made up their minds, even if they don't want to admit it yet, and now they're just watching for the next shoe to drop.

It's going to be hell this offseason.
 
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#346
#346
Voltopia said:
No, the problems are here - for now. It's become clear in the last three days that this board has turned on her. Every little thing now is a controversial firestorm. Every bit of dirty laundry is the latest reason Danny White should show her the door. Things that would normally be a nothingburger, or that are a nothingburger for other programs, are now a SMASHBURGER of anger around here. I think a lot of folks have made up their minds, even if they don't want to admit it yet, and now they're just watching for the next shoe to drop.

It's going to be hell this offseason.
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Yep the vote of confidence can be a killer.
 
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#349
#349
Voltopia said:
No, the problems are here - for now. It's become clear in the last three days that this board has turned on her. Every little thing now is a controversial firestorm. Every bit of dirty laundry is the latest reason Danny White should show her the door. Things that would normally be a nothingburger, or that are a nothingburger for other programs, are now a SMASHBURGER of anger around here. I think a lot of folks have made up their minds, even if they don't want to admit it yet, and now they're just watching for the next shoe to drop.

It's going to be hell this offseason.
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Well, this board has zilch influence on any decision made by DW. We can collectively hold our breath till we turn blue and it matters little.

On the other side, negativity coming from former players (and perhaps current players) and the media (which does seem to be turning) that creates some pressure. But the equation remains the same: if the LVs close on a good note-- pick up a game or two in the SEC and make it to the S16, all is good for now and the temperature around the program goes back to normal.

If the teams ends with back to back losses (admittedly an unlikely worst case scenario), it is not so clear how this might go.
 
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#350
#350
Volfan2012 said:
A great job is way over the top, but I could see him saying needs more time. Great job is just being arrogant.
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There’s a million other ways that he could answer that question without coming off tone deaf. Building to the future? Sure. Staying the course? Alright. Unless the definition of great has changed recently, I would say he is being wildly inaccurate, if not obtuse. Still waiting on the competing for championships part of his hire.
 
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