The Golf thread II

1972 Grad

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The reason I asked is because I have always played stock length, lie, grip size, etc. I was once a 3 handicap, but hardly ever play now. I do practice fairly often though, and hit it as well as ever, just not as long at age 68.

I recently bought some used irons, Ping G30 orange dots. I thought they were red when I first saw them, looked it up, and found out red is .75 degrees flat. I figured that less than a degree wouldn't make a difference, so I bought them. On a static Ping chart, I fall into standard or 1 upright.. I'm 6 feet tall with normal length arms.

Anyway, I go to the range , not knowing they were that flat, and hit them really well, but have lost my normal draw, which is fine with me. After that time, I noticed they were orange dots, so I look them up, and find I have a 61.75 degree lie angle on the wedges. Before, I lined up right and often still lost it left. If I aimed straight, I would hit it left. Now, I don't worry so much about hitting irons, especially short irons, left.

I checked my divots and they weren't deeper on one side than the other. I had no lie board, so I put a vertical stripe on the ball with a sharpie marker, and the stripe left on the clubface is perfectly vertical. I am surprised that I can play flat irons, because a very small percentage of Ping fittings fit people into Orange dots. Usually, those guys are 5'4". Color me surprised.
 

1972 Grad

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Buying an orange dot set doesn't always mean the lies are always set at orange dot specs. Have someone check the lie, lofts, lengths & swingweights on them so you'll know what the specs are. I've bent a lot of irons & have seen some bad OEM L&L specs. Mizuno being one of the worst. Off the rack clubs are massed produced and tolerances for L, L, L & SW are not a priority to be spot on.. Same goes for the loft on a driver. I've measured 8* drivers at 13* before.
Your orange dots show 2.25* flat. I'm gonna assume the lengths are .25 - .50 inches shorter than standard. Really surprised you went with the G series being a once 3 capper. G series is considered a forgiving iron with a wider sole & thicker top line. The heads are heavier also. Graphite shafts will offset the total weight but that head will still feel heavy. If you like them & they work, don't break it.
They are standard length with graphite shafts. I like the clubs quite a bit. The biggest factor in any iron that I would choose is feel. I like to hit range balls, much more so than playing. I want the club to feel solid and the shaft relatively soft. I don't want vibration and a harsh feel.

I could still play blades if I want to, and not be hurt too badly, because my misses are on the heel side of center. I never hit the ball in the toe. At my age, I like graphite because of the weight factor, and they seem to be easier on my arthritis. Steel feels heavy to me now.
 

1972 Grad

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Odd that they are standard length being orange dots. Sounds like a special order or a re-shaft. Better for you that they are standard. I can see why you like them for feel. Heavy head & light shaft makes a great combo for that.
What putter you rollin with? I don't collect any but there's some beautiful stuff out there. Guy outta Nashville named Ken Uselton has the Xenon brand & he does some amazing work.
Kenneth "Lumpy" Uselton (@xenongolfco) • Instagram photos and videos

I've got a solid copper head he made that I use along with a Bettinardi Queen Bee #5
No reshaft. It's the stock Ping shaft. Nice putters. I have a semi-mallet heel shafted Odyssey. I don't know the name of it. It has a soft white insert.

Back to the Pings. I feel like I can line up at my target and not worry about the ball falling left. It almost always fell left as it dropped, no matter where I aimed or where I played the ball in my stance. I have a fairly neutral grip, and never could hit it very well with a weaker grip, and couldn't line up at the target. I would aim right. I guess my other irons faced left with more upright lies.

At one point, I considered that maybe my shafts were too light or too soft, or that the other irons had too much offset. I used to assemble and reshaft several clubs for myself. I have probably tried everything but flat lies in the past. Short drivers, long drivers, different head weights, high lofted woods (balloon too much), hybrids, different weight shafts, different tip stiffness, butt stiffness, flex, etc. I don't think that I have ever hit a club with a flat lie before. I do think that clubs have gotten longer, and the lies have gotten more upright, instead of flatter over the years.
 

GAVol

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The G30's should have more offset (how far face sits behind hosel) than a cavity back forged. Hard for me to say why your not hittin the draw with the flatter irons. Obviously they are not too flat or you would be pushing right on hits. What's the make up on the new set & have you hit every club?
If this is a setup you like, again I suggest you have them spec'd. This would help you in purchasing another set & take a lot of the guess work out.
If those things are truly that flat, it seems like it'd be tough to release with the toe going into the ground first.
 

1972 Grad

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The G30's should have more offset (how far face sits behind hosel) than a cavity back forged. Hard for me to say why your not hittin the draw with the flatter irons. Obviously they are not too flat or you would be pushing right on hits. What's the make up on the new set & have you hit every club?
If this is a setup you like, again I suggest you have them spec'd. This would help you in purchasing another set & take a lot of the guess work out.
5-gap, and I have hit them all. They have strong lofts. The 5 is 24 degrees. Gap is 50.
 
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1972 Grad

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If those things are truly that flat, it seems like it'd be tough to release with the toe going into the ground first.
The toe isn't going in the ground first. Divots are same depth toe to heel, and I marked range balls with a stripe with a sharpie. Then I placed the ball on the ground with the stripe perfectly vertical. The imprint of the stripe left a perfectly vertical imprint on the clubface. If the toe was either down or up, the imprint would angle toward the heel or toe by however many degrees it was off.
 

GAVol

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The toe isn't going in the ground first. Divots are same depth toe to heel, and I marked range balls with a stripe with a sharpie. Then I placed the ball on the ground with the stripe perfectly vertical. The imprint of the stripe left a perfectly vertical imprint on the clubface. If the toe was either down or up, the imprint would angle toward the heel or toe by however many degrees it was off.
You need to find an impact board just to make sure
 

1972 Grad

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About 1 club strong from what you're probably use to. That's about a normal loft now. Get the measurements on the lies. There's some DIY methods on Google. Looking at the specs on the G30 & it shows the length for the 5i to be 38.25". While there is no "standard", 35" would be the normal for most 5i's that aren't + or - in length.
I think you mean 38".
 

1972 Grad

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You need to find an impact board just to make sure
I did the lie board thing about 20 years ago, and I needed 1 degree up, because the impact mark on the sole of the club was about 1/4" closer to the toe than center. My understanding is that the method that I used with a wet marked vertical stripe on the ball is more accurate, because sometimes the club will skid on a lie board, and some people don't swing exactly the same as when the ball is on grass.

I think that the clubs are either as flat as they say, and my swing has changed, or my hands are getting closer to the ground at impact and slightly closer to my body than they used to be, or I'm standing farther away. I don't reach for the ball. My arms just hang freely. The other possibility is that the length of the blade and the extra weight toward the toe makes it harder to shut the face. Obviously before, the face was pointing left of my path at impact. It apparently isn't now.

I grew up hitting non offset blades that were about half as long heel to toe as these. I believe that a hit on the toe of these would have been a whiff on the old ones. I'm hitting the ball about as far from the hosel as ever, but that puts it in the heel side of center on these.
 

1972 Grad

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72, don’t think any of us here can give you the answer you’re looking for without watching you hit live. Even if we had your same club set up, the hitting results would be different. Go let someone in the business watch you hit or try phone videoing your swing & re-watching in slo-mo on a computer. Video it from rear & side. Use the bag as a tripod & duct tape to hold phone to bag. Can see a lot different things when you can “watch” your own swing. Good that you found a setup that works for you.
Most guys 68 I know aren’t trying to figure out why they aren't hittin a draw with a new set irons that have flat lies. They are worried (and complaining) about can’t turn, bad back, no distance, bad knee, you see where that went?, bad wrist, gettin ball outta cup, bad elbow…….
I will never stop until I hit every shot perfectly. Of course, that's not going to happen, so I'll never quit. I love the feel of a perfectly hit iron. Oh yeah, I have had a bad back for close to 50 years, and the ortho told me that I need 2 knee replacements, so I may get one done this Winter. It doesn't stop me from hitting balls. It hurts whether I hit or not. I can't squat to line up a putt anymore, so I guess at it.

Also, I have learned a lot about my swing from getting filmed.
 

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