The final word on Kiffin's (lack of) experience

#1
Ohio Vol

Ohio Vol

Inquisitor of Offense
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#1
I've posted this twice in other threads, but I get the feeling it keeps getting missed.

The talk has been that UT must hire someone that has all sorts of head coaching experience to go head-to-head against the SEC coaches....who all were hired in spite of their lack of "real" head coaching experience.

The following is a list of 38 coaches. Some are in the CFHOF, some are in the PFHOF, and some more will be. The common theme is that all of them were hired at their premier job with very little experience.

Chris Ault -- 0 years of HC experience before <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:state w:st="on">Nevada</st1:state></st1:place>
Gary Barnett -- 2 years of HC experience before Northwestern at something called <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placetype w:st="on">Fort</st1:placetype> <st1:placename w:st="on">Lewis</st1:placename> <st1:placename w:st="on">College</st1:placename></st1:place> (with an 8-11-1 record)
Frank Broyles – 2 years HC experience before Arkansas
Bill Cowher -- 0 years of HC experience before <st1:city w:st="on">Pittsburgh</st1:city>
Butch Davis -- 1 year HC experience before <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Miami</st1:place></st1:city> at Tulsa Rogers HS (no college HC experience)
Bobby Dodd –0 years HC experience before Georgia Tech
Vince Dooley – 0 years HC experience before <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Georgia</st1:place></st1:country-region>
Forest Evashevski – 2 years HC experience before <st1:state w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Iowa</st1:place></st1:state>
LaVell Edwards -- 0 years HC experience before BYU
Don Faurot -- 9 years HC experience before <st1:state w:st="on">Missouri</st1:state>, all at <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placename w:st="on">Kirksville</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">State</st1:placetype> <st1:placetype w:st="on">Teachers College</st1:placetype></st1:place>
John Gagliardi -- 4 years of HC experience before <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">St. John's</st1:place></st1:city>
Woody Hayes – 2 years HC experience before <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placename w:st="on">Ohio</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">State (Miami U)</st1:placetype></st1:place>
Shug <st1:country-region w:st="on">Jordan</st1:country-region> – 17 years HC experience at <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Auburn</st1:city></st1:place>….all as basketball coach (none as football coach)
Don James – 4 years HC experience before WSU (<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placename w:st="on">Kent</st1:placename> <st1:placename w:st="on">State</st1:placename></st1:place>)
Larry Kehres -- 0 years of HC experience before <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placetype w:st="on">Mount</st1:placetype> <st1:placename w:st="on">Union</st1:placename></st1:place>
Frank Kush -- 0 years HC experience before <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placename w:st="on">Arizona</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">State</st1:placetype></st1:place>
John McKay -- 0 years HC experience before USC
Tom Landry -- 0 years of HC experience before Dallas
Frank Leahy -- 2 years of HC experience before Notre Dame
Vince Lombardi -- 0 years of HC experience before <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Green Bay</st1:place></st1:city>
Urban Meyer -- 4 years HC experience before <st1:state w:st="on">Florida</st1:state> (at <st1:placename w:st="on">Bowling Green</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">State</st1:placetype> and <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:state w:st="on">Utah</st1:state></st1:place>)
Tom Osborne -- 0 years of HC experience before <st1:state w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Nebraska</st1:place></st1:state>
Bill Parcells -- 1 year of HC experience before the NY Giants (with Air Force)
Joe Paterno -- 0 years of HC experience before <st1:placename w:st="on">Penn</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">State</st1:placetype>
Bob Pruett -- 0 years of HC experience before <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Marshall</st1:place></st1:city>
Tubby Raymond -- 0 years HC experience before Delaware
Mark Richt -- 0 years HC experience before <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Georgia</st1:place></st1:country-region>
Eddie Robinson -- 0 years of HC experience before Grambling.
Darrell Royal -- 3 years HC experience before Texas
Nick Saban -- 6 years HC experience before LSU
Bo Schembechler – 6 years HC experience before <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:state w:st="on">Michigan</st1:state></st1:place> (Miami U)
Bill Snyder -- 0 years of HC experience before <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placename w:st="on">Kansas</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">State</st1:placetype></st1:place>
Amos Alonzo Stagg – 2 years HC experience before <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Chicago</st1:city></st1:place>
Bob Stoops -- 0 years HC experience before <st1:state w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Oklahoma</st1:place></st1:state>
Barry Switzer -- 0 years of HC experience before <st1:state w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Oklahoma</st1:place></st1:state>
Bud Wilkinson -- 0 years HC experience before <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:state w:st="on">Oklahoma</st1:state></st1:place>
Bill Yeoman – 0 years HC experience before <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Houston</st1:city></st1:place>
<o:p> </o:p>
Total – 38 coaches, 49 years of HC experience.

Total "before" record -- 326-154-15, 10 conference championships
Total "after" record for college coaches (still being added to) -- 5870-2123-181, 249 conference championships, 64 national championships
Total "after" record for pro coaches -- 565-330-12, 34 playoff appearances, 10 NFL titles

If I really wanted, I could probably add 20 more coaches to the list without adding 30 years of experience.

There is NO correlation between prior experience and future success. The fact that Lane Kiffin has assistant experience (and a decent amount of it) and less than two seasons of head coaching experience at the NFL level is totally irrelevant to any conversation.

If you don't like the hire, that's fine. If you're going to tell us why you don't, you'd dang well better have some sound logic and facts to back it up.
 
#2
#2
The ironic thing is that the guy Kiffin is replacing is one of the most glaring examples of success without prior head coaching experience.
 
#6
#6
Mark no brains May just said on ESPN it was a wrong move, citing the lack of experience. Holtz and Davis kinda stood up for the hire. fantastic list. maybe you should write an e-mail to May telling him about Fulmer's lack of experience before taking over as head coach? haha would be interesting if that made it on the air.
 
#7
#7
That was quite impressive Ohio vol...You don't have a day job do you?..Haha!..Just joking, Very nice work..P.S. You left out FULMER
 
#8
#8
I can guarantee this isn't the final word on his lack of experience.

Also, experience is related to success, just so happens that it isn't the only factor.
 
#10
#10
If I do that, I'll make sure to add in:

General Neyland -- 0 years HC experience before Tennessee
Steve Spurrier -- 3 years pro, 3 years college HC experience before Florida
Paul Brown -- 0 years HC experience before Ohio State (at the college level in any way, for that matter. The guy coached at Massillon HS before Ohio State hired him)
Lloyd Carr -- 0 years HC experience before Michigan
Tom Flores -- 0 years HC experience before Oakland
Phillip Fulmer -- 0 years HC experience before Tennessee
Bum Phillips -- 0 years HC experience before Houston
John Robinson -- 0 years HC experience before USC
Hank Stram -- 0 years HC experience before Dallas/Kansas City
Bill Walsh -- 2 years HC experience before San Francisco (at Stanford)

So that's 10 more coaches and just 5 more years of experience...we're up to 48 coaches and 54 years.
 
Last edited:
#11
#11
the list of coaches with little experience or no previous head coach experience who went on to be failures is going to be a lot longer.
 
#12
#12
oklavol said:
the list of coaches with little experience or no previous head coach experience who went on to be failures is going to be a lot longer.
Click to expand...

vol5150 said he could cite 100 examples of failure for each success I could name.

He owes me 4,800 failures thus far.
 
#13
#13
oklavol said:
the list of coaches with little experience or no previous head coach experience who went on to be failures is going to be a lot longer.
Click to expand...
The list of failed head coaches is going to be longer period.
 
#20
#20
Just found this after I googled Kiffin to Tennessee and found this to be very encouraging:

Tennessee Titans coach Jeff Fisher had not heard the reports Friday. But he called Kiffin an excellent coach who was involved with recruiting while at Southern California and said he got to know Kiffin some during his time coaching Oakland in the NFL.

"He went into a very, very difficult situation there in Oakland. I thought he handled things professionally. He certainly had that team moving in the right direction in the opinion of his peers, including me, and didn't get a chance to finish it. I think he'll be a great college coach," Fisher said.
 
#21
#21
utmafia81 said:
Just found this after I googled Kiffin to Tennessee and found this to be very encouraging:

Tennessee Titans coach Jeff Fisher had not heard the reports Friday. But he called Kiffin an excellent coach who was involved with recruiting while at Southern California and said he got to know Kiffin some during his time coaching Oakland in the NFL.

"He went into a very, very difficult situation there in Oakland. I thought he handled things professionally. He certainly had that team moving in the right direction in the opinion of his peers, including me, and didn't get a chance to finish it. I think he'll be a great college coach," Fisher said.
Click to expand...

good find. do you have a link to the rest of it?
 
#23
#23
Ohio Vol said:
I've posted this twice in other threads, but I get the feeling it keeps getting missed.

The talk has been that UT must hire someone that has all sorts of head coaching experience to go head-to-head against the SEC coaches....who all were hired in spite of their lack of "real" head coaching experience.

The following is a list of 38 coaches. Some are in the CFHOF, some are in the PFHOF, and some more will be. The common theme is that all of them were hired at their premier job with very little experience.

Chris Ault -- 0 years of HC experience before <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:state w:st="on">Nevada</st1:state></st1:place>
Gary Barnett -- 2 years of HC experience before Northwestern at something called <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placetype w:st="on">Fort</st1:placetype> <st1:placename w:st="on">Lewis</st1:placename> <st1:placename w:st="on">College</st1:placename></st1:place> (with an 8-11-1 record)
Frank Broyles – 2 years HC experience before Arkansas
Bill Cowher -- 0 years of HC experience before <st1:city w:st="on">Pittsburgh</st1:city>
Butch Davis -- 1 year HC experience before <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Miami</st1:place></st1:city> at Tulsa Rogers HS (no college HC experience)
Bobby Dodd –0 years HC experience before Georgia Tech
Vince Dooley – 0 years HC experience before <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Georgia</st1:place></st1:country-region>
Forest Evashevski – 2 years HC experience before <st1:state w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Iowa</st1:place></st1:state>
LaVell Edwards -- 0 years HC experience before BYU
Don Faurot -- 9 years HC experience before <st1:state w:st="on">Missouri</st1:state>, all at <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placename w:st="on">Kirksville</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">State</st1:placetype> <st1:placetype w:st="on">Teachers College</st1:placetype></st1:place>
John Gagliardi -- 4 years of HC experience before <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">St. John's</st1:place></st1:city>
Woody Hayes – 2 years HC experience before <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placename w:st="on">Ohio</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">State (Miami U)</st1:placetype></st1:place>
Shug <st1:country-region w:st="on">Jordan</st1:country-region> – 17 years HC experience at <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Auburn</st1:city></st1:place>….all as basketball coach (none as football coach)
Don James – 4 years HC experience before WSU (<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placename w:st="on">Kent</st1:placename> <st1:placename w:st="on">State</st1:placename></st1:place>)
Larry Kehres -- 0 years of HC experience before <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placetype w:st="on">Mount</st1:placetype> <st1:placename w:st="on">Union</st1:placename></st1:place>
Frank Kush -- 0 years HC experience before <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placename w:st="on">Arizona</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">State</st1:placetype></st1:place>
John McKay -- 0 years HC experience before USC
Tom Landry -- 0 years of HC experience before Dallas
Frank Leahy -- 2 years of HC experience before Notre Dame
Vince Lombardi -- 0 years of HC experience before <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Green Bay</st1:place></st1:city>
Urban Meyer -- 4 years HC experience before <st1:state w:st="on">Florida</st1:state> (at <st1:placename w:st="on">Bowling Green</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">State</st1:placetype> and <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:state w:st="on">Utah</st1:state></st1:place>)
Tom Osborne -- 0 years of HC experience before <st1:state w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Nebraska</st1:place></st1:state>
Bill Parcells -- 1 year of HC experience before the NY Giants (with Air Force)
Joe Paterno -- 0 years of HC experience before <st1:placename w:st="on">Penn</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">State</st1:placetype>
Bob Pruett -- 0 years of HC experience before <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Marshall</st1:place></st1:city>
Tubby Raymond -- 0 years HC experience before Delaware
Mark Richt -- 0 years HC experience before <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Georgia</st1:place></st1:country-region>
Eddie Robinson -- 0 years of HC experience before Grambling.
Darrell Royal -- 3 years HC experience before Texas
Nick Saban -- 6 years HC experience before LSU
Bo Schembechler – 6 years HC experience before <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:state w:st="on">Michigan</st1:state></st1:place> (Miami U)
Bill Snyder -- 0 years of HC experience before <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placename w:st="on">Kansas</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">State</st1:placetype></st1:place>
Amos Alonzo Stagg – 2 years HC experience before <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Chicago</st1:city></st1:place>
Bob Stoops -- 0 years HC experience before <st1:state w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Oklahoma</st1:place></st1:state>
Barry Switzer -- 0 years of HC experience before <st1:state w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Oklahoma</st1:place></st1:state>
Bud Wilkinson -- 0 years HC experience before <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:state w:st="on">Oklahoma</st1:state></st1:place>
Bill Yeoman – 0 years HC experience before <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Houston</st1:city></st1:place>
<o:p> </o:p>
Total – 38 coaches, 49 years of HC experience.

Total "before" record -- 326-154-15, 10 conference championships
Total "after" record for college coaches (still being added to) -- 5870-2123-181, 249 conference championships, 64 national championships
Total "after" record for pro coaches -- 565-330-12, 34 playoff appearances, 10 NFL titles

If I really wanted, I could probably add 20 more coaches to the list without adding 30 years of experience.

There is NO correlation between prior experience and future success. The fact that Lane Kiffin has assistant experience (and a decent amount of it) and less than two seasons of head coaching experience at the NFL level is totally irrelevant to any conversation.

If you don't like the hire, that's fine. If you're going to tell us why you don't, you'd dang well better have some sound logic and facts to back it up.
Click to expand...

That is a well researched post. Experience can definitely be overrated. :yahoo:
 
#24
#24
oklavol said:
the list of coaches with little experience or no previous head coach experience who went on to be failures is going to be a lot longer.
Click to expand...

OhioVol did his homework and a nice job is was. We are waiting for your list.
 
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