The eyeball test, do they pass it?

#1
T

Thunndarr

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#1
Just saw a thread about Butch and Dooley having the same overall record at this same number of games.

Ok.

Now, I don't remember a lot about the Dooley era thanks to a generous amount of self-medicating via booze to forever purge his stink of off my love for Tennessee football. However, what I remember is a lot of stupid mental mistakes, *extremely* obvious poor coaching, and teams that eventually just quit.

The loss to OU certainly stings, probably all the more so because I think all of us really believed we were going to win. I don't remember feeling that at all in the Dooley era. Ever. Most losses, I don't remember feeling the least bit surprised.

Anyway, this current team makes mistakes, certainly, but they seem to be a lot of "trying too hard" rather than "don't give a crap" type mistakes. And fight? I don't think I've seen this team lay down like Dooley's players. (And who could blame them? I'm proud they persevered under that incompetent as long as they did.)

So, back to the question. The wins haven't come. Yet. But the product on the field looks light-years better than it has for a long time. To me. I believe the wins will come.
 
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#2
#2
Dooley didn't give a crap about the players, which in turn caused them to not give a crap about the team. At least Butch cares, and though we still haven't won a lot, every team he's fielded has yet to quit fighting, even when getting bowed out. That compared to a coach (Dooley), whose players wanted to lose games. Anybody who thinks they're the same is crazy, or blowing off steam IMO.
 
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#3
#3
I think Tennessee is better most everywhere, but there are places where they haven't gotten better and it's dragging the whole thing down.

The offensive line is a problem. I don't know what Butch has signed, but it's not where it needs to be. Linebacker isn't where it needs to be.

The offense was better in 2012. The defense was light years worse.

An advantage for Butch is that in 2015, Florida, Vandy, Georgia, and even Alabama are worse than in 2012.

Kentucky is better. Missouri is better.
 
#4
#4
99gator said:
I think Tennessee is better most everywhere, but there are places where they haven't gotten better and it's dragging the whole thing down.

The offensive line is a problem. I don't know what Butch has signed, but it's not where it needs to be. Linebacker isn't where it needs to be.

The offense was better in 2012. The defense was light years worse.

An advantage for Butch is that in 2015, Florida, Vandy, Georgia, and even Alabama are worse than in 2012.

Kentucky is better. Missouri is better.
Click to expand...

Which is strange because I feel like we've recruited well there. No one has stepped up yet, which could be for a variety of reasons.
 
#6
#6
99gator said:
I think Tennessee is better most everywhere, but there are places where they haven't gotten better and it's dragging the whole thing down.

The offensive line is a problem. I don't know what Butch has signed, but it's not where it needs to be. Linebacker isn't where it needs to be.

The offense was better in 2012. The defense was light years worse.

An advantage for Butch is that in 2015, Florida, Vandy, Georgia, and even Alabama are worse than in 2012.

Kentucky is better. Missouri is better.
Click to expand...

We'll see. Heard that crap last September too.
 
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#7
#7
armchair said:
The passing game is pretty bad. I'm not seeing a lot of good coaching there.
Click to expand...

Guys, here's the bottom line. The players were put in position to make plays. We looked LETHARGIC most of the 2nd half. THAT is not play calling. Even in looking lethargic, we had SEVERAL BIG opportunities to put the game away. I will not mention names here but TWICE we had defensive holding in the secondary that gave OU new life on drives. We DROPPED a pass or two that could have kept us alive to keep the ball away from OU, or even could have given us points that would have put it away. These things are not coaching. IF we'd gotten off the field on those holding penalties, IF we'd caught the passes that were on the money, IF, IF, IF . . . . . we'd be celebrating the play calling and how much of a play calling genius DeBord is. Our YOUTH showed up in the 2nd half. A lot of these kids are still used to HS ball and not having to put the hammer down in the the 3rd and 4th quarter. OU on the other hand is laden with Juniors and Seniors in key positions (take away left tackle) and THAT showed. Bottom line, the players were put in positions to make plays and that didn't happen late in the game when the chips were down. We lost. It stings. But hopefully that lesson will be learned and we won't do the same thing against the hated lizards in Gainesville two weeks from now.
__________________
 
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#8
#8
Saw a former player Sunday morning, comment about the 27 game record.
He laughed and shook his head. "No comparison, I would love to share stories [about Dooley] but can't on the air"

He went on about the difference in discipline, direction of the program, recruiting and work ethic etc...
 
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#9
#9
armchair said:
The passing game is pretty bad. I'm not seeing a lot of good coaching there.
Click to expand...

The o-line is doing a better job of run-blocking than pass-blocking. No time to throw=no passing yards.

They don't look nearly as over-matched to me now as they have the last few years though.
 
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#10
#10
I don't think anyone would seriously suggest that Butch Jones is as incompetent as Derek Dooley. The problem is, just being a little better than Dooley, is still pretty awful. Heck, even being in the same ballpark as Dooley would be unacceptable for any other major program.
 
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#11
#11
chargervol said:
Saw a former player Sunday morning, comment about the 27 game record.
He laughed and shook his head. "No comparison, I would love to share stories [about Dooley] but can't on the air"

He went on about the difference in discipline, direction of the program, recruiting and work ethic etc...
Click to expand...

We're getting better. From Dooley's first game until the last we got steadily worse. I think we beat a Bowling Green team that will be in a bowl and finish no worse than 10-2 and I think we will finish 8-4. Personally, I do think we beat Arkansas and Florida now. I didn't feel that way before Saturday. Let's wait and see.
 
#12
#12
to me CBJ is passing the eye test,everybody will have to admit that his teams fight hard for 4 quarters and don't have the word quit in there vocabulary
 
#13
#13
You win in this league with great OL and DL.. Period. You can't hide if you do have eons or both.. You will be exposed
 
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#15
#15
Thunndarr said:
Just saw a thread about Butch and Dooley having the same overall record at this same number of games.

Ok.

Now, I don't remember a lot about the Dooley era thanks to a generous amount of self-medicating via booze to forever purge his stink of off my love for Tennessee football. However, what I remember is a lot of stupid mental mistakes, *extremely* obvious poor coaching, and teams that eventually just quit.

The loss to OU certainly stings, probably all the more so because I think all of us really believed we were going to win. I don't remember feeling that at all in the Dooley era. Ever. Most losses, I don't remember feeling the least bit surprised.

Anyway, this current team makes mistakes, certainly, but they seem to be a lot of "trying too hard" rather than "don't give a crap" type mistakes. And fight? I don't think I've seen this team lay down like Dooley's players. (And who could blame them? I'm proud they persevered under that incompetent as long as they did.)

So, back to the question. The wins haven't come. Yet. But the product on the field looks light-years better than it has for a long time. To me. I believe the wins will come.
Click to expand...

LSU, NC, GA and SC come to mind. Even Oregon at home for about a half lol
 
#16
#16
volfanngatorland said:
Which is strange because I feel like we've recruited well there. No one has stepped up yet, which could be for a variety of reasons.
Click to expand...


SEC linebacker is pretty difficult! Very few fresh can step in and contribute their first season.

Al Wilson didn't start as a freshman and he was an Uber Freak!! :rock:



.




.
 
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#17
#17
I think the comparison has more to do with the over-all record and game management. The WAY we lost that game was reminiscent of the former coach.

Dooley had NFL talent on Offense, the OLine, the QB, at WR and at TE and he had Chaney. The talent on Defense was lacking and got worse after Wilcox (currently at USC) left for Washington. Most of that offensive talent left before Jones arrived and Dooley didn't restock the cupboard.

In every other respect the program is better. Dooley was incompetent in every facet. Neither the players nor his assistants respected him, may not even have liked him and eventually quit playing or working for him. That doesn't seem to be the case with Jones, at least so far.

The OL, especially the right side, is abysmal for us right now. I find it hard to believe we don't have a MLB over on campus. Other than those two glaring weaknesses, we're slowly but surely getting the talent level back up to SEC caliber.

The defense is close to passing the eye-ball test, the offense is more of a work in progress, especially the passing game.
 
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#18
#18
I don't care if Dormady and Dobbs split time. We've got to get a passing game going. It seems we can never have both. Had passing game with Dooley, no run, and no D his last yr. Now we have a good run game, no pass at all since Butch been here. Defense is very capable of helping us. Just need a pass game
 
#19
#19
Longtime lurker here,

All the complaining the past few days has compelled me to give my 2 cents..

I don't know about anybody else, but Saturday night is the first time since 2009 I have watched a tenn game with that much excitement. My heart was pounding the entire time. I have missed that feeling and I thank Butch Jones for bringing that feeling back.

I hate the way we lost, but it was not all because of game management. Butch jones does need to improve in game management, but I have been very impressed with recruiting, player development, and those boys came out ready to play Saturday night.

Let's please not treat butch jones like Derek Dooley, we have improved every year.
 
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#20
#20
We will see we lost to Florida last year with game in hand and lost to Oklahoma with fully control of the game and our offense coaching staff pulled a choke job then to.
 
#21
#21
The passing game has got to be given a priority in practice...A championship cannot be won by 2 runs and a pass. As we all know the box is packed just waiting for your runner.

Whenever a coach says we are a run first team, they usually are, and usually don't win often enough. In today's offense, the pass sets up the run. Back the defenders out of the box and the run is so much easier.
 
#22
#22
chargervol said:
Saw a former player Sunday morning, comment about the 27 game record.
He laughed and shook his head. "No comparison, I would love to share stories [about Dooley] but can't on the air"

He went on about the difference in discipline, direction of the program, recruiting and work ethic etc...
Click to expand...
Marlon Walls?
 
#23
#23
VolForLife83 said:
I don't care if Dormady and Dobbs split time. We've got to get a passing game going. It seems we can never have both. Had passing game with Dooley, no run, and no D his last yr. Now we have a good run game, no pass at all since Butch been here. Defense is very capable of helping us. Just need a pass game
Click to expand...

Exactly. Which is why I hope Butch uses the WC game to open up the passing game. Let Dobbs sling it all over the field and see what happens. If he still doesn't perform well then put QD in and let him sling it. We all know we can run the ball. I wouldn't mind at all if we barely run the ball against WC if that means the passing game gets clicking.
 
#25
#25
letsgoUT29 said:
Longtime lurker here,

All the complaining the past few days has compelled me to give my 2 cents..

I don't know about anybody else, but Saturday night is the first time since 2009 I have watched a tenn game with that much excitement. My heart was pounding the entire time. I have missed that feeling and I thank Butch Jones for bringing that feeling back.

I hate the way we lost, but it was not all because of game management. Butch jones does need to improve in game management, but I have been very impressed with recruiting, player development, and those boys came out ready to play Saturday night.

Let's please not treat butch jones like Derek Dooley, we have improved every year.
Click to expand...

Now that's a good third post. Glad to hear not everyone is ready to jump just yet.
 
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