The Downfall Of Tennessee Football

#76
#76
05_never_again said:
The single-worst decision of the last decade was the panic hire of Dooley after Kiffin left. That was even dumber than hiring Kiffin, because let's be real, nobody saw his departure coming and something like 95% of the fanbase was energized by him. There's a lot of revisionist history in this fanbase about how we "never liked" Kiffin and whatnot.

We were in a bad position no matter what, but the proper course of action at that time was to hire Cutcliffe and all his Duke assistants or appoint someone (Chaney or Kippy Brown were fine candidates) as interim and have a full year to conduct a normal coaching search. Instead Hammy panicked in order to preserve that year's recruiting class and gave the job to a guy who by his own admission wasn't cut out for it. That Dooley hire is truly staggering when you think about it...Dooley hadn't even been a coordinator before taking that job.
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Agreed. Thinking back on it, we should have stayed the course with Kippy through the following season.
 
#77
#77
lifeisdeep said:
I have a lot clearer understanding of sports than you do. Unlike you, I don't misrepresent facts just to further my agenda. Two 5-7 seasons out of four is not "a bad season every now and then;" at the time, it was the worst four-year stretch for UT football in 99 years. One has to go back to the 1906 through 1909 seasons to find the last time, prior to Fulmer's last four years, that UT had lost six or more games twice within a four-year span.

Just because we're worse now than we were when he was fired does not in the slightest mean that he wasn't responsible for the beginning of the decline. As more than a few other posters have noted on here many times over the last ten years, the decline started with the same guy that brought us our last NC.
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Yeah, no you don't have a clearer understanding of sports. You simply have an opinion. That's all. An opinion. But your arrogance about thinking that you do is all anyone really has to know. No one really knows how it would have worked out if Fulmer had been given the chance to either fix it or help with finding his successor. Including you.
 
#78
#78
FLSTF-VOL said:
Again what is your point? Since then many, many more records have fallen. The idea that he is responsible for the decline is simply your opinion. As a matter of fact, you and those that wanted him gone are partially responsible for the debacle we find ourselves in now. Let that sink in. You can try to defend it, but it's indefensible given the ongoing state of the program since he was fired. Spin it how you want. You wanted change, you got it. Congratulations!
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This makes every bit as much sense as suggesting that calling the fire department was wrong because they brought out a fire truck that didn't work properly and the house still burned to the ground.

I didn't hire any of the coaches hired since Fulmer, genius. Your argument is devoid of reason and common sense. Just because the people who implemented the change botched it horrifically does not mean the change did not need to be made.

Name me one D-I football coach who had his team competing for national championships at one point, then began slipping for several years, then miraculously recovered and began winning championships again. There's a reason Paterno was forced out, and it's the same reason Bobby Bowden was: because they stopped getting results. Steve Spurrier would still be coaching D-1 today if he could still get the same results he got in his prime; he retired because he had enough sense to know that if he didn't, he would soon be asked to.

Or, to put it another way by quoting many other posters on here: exactly how many D-1 programs fought each other trying to hire your hero once he was done here?
 
#79
#79
05_never_again said:
The single-worst decision of the last decade was the panic hire of Dooley after Kiffin left. That was even dumber than hiring Kiffin, because let's be real, nobody saw his departure coming and something like 95% of the fanbase was energized by him. There's a lot of revisionist history in this fanbase about how we "never liked" Kiffin and whatnot.

We were in a bad position no matter what, but the proper course of action at that time was to hire Cutcliffe and all his Duke assistants or appoint someone (Chaney or Kippy Brown were fine candidates) as interim and have a full year to conduct a normal coaching search. Instead Hammy panicked in order to preserve that year's recruiting class and gave the job to a guy who by his own admission wasn't cut out for it. That Dooley hire is truly staggering when you think about it...Dooley hadn't even been a coordinator before taking that job.
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Uh, Dooley was the head coach at Louisiana Tech before he came here...I think that's slightly above coordinator. He had a losing record there and never should have even been interviewed for the UT job, but he had been a HC.
 
#80
#80
lifeisdeep said:
This makes every bit as much sense as suggesting that calling the fire department was wrong because they brought out a fire truck that didn't work properly and the house still burned to the ground.

I didn't hire any of the coaches hired since Fulmer, genius. Your argument is devoid of reason and common sense. Just because the people who implemented the change botched it horrifically does not mean the change did not need to be made.

Name me one D-I football coach who had his team competing for national championships at one point, then began slipping for several years, then miraculously recovered and began winning championships again. There's a reason Paterno was forced out, and it's the same reason Bobby Bowden was: because they stopped getting results. Steve Spurrier would still be coaching D-1 today if he could still get the same results he got in his prime; he retired because he had enough sense to know that if he didn't, he would soon be asked to.

Or, to put it another way by quoting many other posters on here: exactly how many D-1 programs fought each other trying to hire your hero once he was done here?
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Again, it's simply your opinion. You're just as wrong as the many posters here you allude to. See I and many like me have the opinion that my hero should have never been fired the way he was fired in the first place. As many have posted here. See how that works? You can't know how it would have turned out if he had stayed any more than you can take responsibility for what has transpired since. Again you and the many posters here that agree with you are just as responsible for this debacle as the idiot administration that bowed to the pressure. Again, thank you for helping us to get to this all-time low! I know, I know "but it was time for him to go" LOL Man you guys were so right! LOL Spin it, try to justify it all ya want.
 
#82
#82
lifeisdeep said:
I have a lot clearer understanding of sports than you do. Unlike you, I don't misrepresent facts just to further my agenda. Two 5-7 seasons out of four is not "a bad season every now and then;" at the time, it was the worst four-year stretch for UT football in 99 years. One has to go back to the 1906 through 1909 seasons to find the last time, prior to Fulmer's last four years, that UT had lost six or more games twice within a four-year span.

Just because we're worse now than we were when he was fired does not in the slightest mean that he wasn't responsible for the beginning of the decline. As more than a few other posters have noted on here many times over the last ten years, the decline started with the same guy that brought us our last NC.
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Minor detail but I think we went 5-6 in 2005. Only played 11 games. I see both sides. Yes, Fulmer had a pretty sharp decline his last 4-5 years and I had no problems with him transitioning out of his coaching duties but would like to have seem s better exit strategy. On the other hand, I just looked at our win-loss schedules from 2001-2008 and we actually had some pretty impressive wins against some ranked teams in 2003, 2004, 2006 and 2007. Yes, we lost some games too but our performances in those years were actually better than I had remembered and clearly not even close to being as pathetic as our last 10 years.
 
#83
#83
Backwards K said:
You also failed to mention that Tennessee went to 2 SEC Championship Games in Fulmer's last 5 years. How many times have the Vols been since that time.
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You forgot to add in that he backdoor-ed those two SECCG's.
 
#85
#85
I barely can watch the downfall of the program today, why would I want to spend 20 mins watching someone talk about it?
 
#86
#86
lifeisdeep said:
Uh, Dooley was the head coach at Louisiana Tech before he came here...I think that's slightly above coordinator. He had a losing record there and never should have even been interviewed for the UT job, but he had been a HC.
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Yes - he ascended to that La Tech HC position, then HC at Tennessee, without ever even having been a coordinator. That's what I meant.
 
#88
#88
FLSTF-VOL said:
Who gives a crap how we did it? Don’t think there is any vol fan alive that wouldn’t take a back door SECCG today!
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A lot of fans do! That is very telling of the program then and of the coaching! Therefore, we could tell how the dynamics of the program were and where it was heading. Basically, it told that the only way the program was going to be successful is if others (teams) failed. Not if we earned it.
 
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#90
#90
XknoxvolsX said:
A lot of fans do! That is very telling of the program then and of the coaching! Therefore, we could tell how the dynamics of the program were and where it was heading. Basically, it told that the only way the program was going to be successful is if others (teams) failed. Not if we earned it.
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BS. That happens everywhere. It's cyclic. Every major program goes through it. Sometimes you get help from another team or you win your way through it. But it only happens if the opportunity is there. We haven't been close since.
 
#91
#91
FLSTF-VOL said:
BS. That happens everywhere. It's cyclic. Every major program goes through it. Sometimes you get help from another team or you win your way through it. But it only happens if the opportunity is there. We haven't been close since.
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Other teams are just that much better, is why.
 
#92
#92
FLSTF-VOL said:
Again, it's simply your opinion. You're just as wrong as the many posters here you allude to. See I and many like me have the opinion that my hero should have never been fired the way he was fired in the first place. As many have posted here. See how that works? You can't know how it would have turned out if he had stayed any more than you can take responsibility for what has transpired since. Again you and the many posters here that agree with you are just as responsible for this debacle as the idiot administration that bowed to the pressure. Again, thank you for helping us to get to this all-time low! I know, I know "but it was time for him to go" LOL Man you guys were so right! LOL Spin it, try to justify it all ya want.
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You are a champion of irony without even realizing it. You may not be aware of this, but you blathering verbal diarrhea over and over again about it just being my "opinion," and then with a straight face asserting as fact that I and other fans caused the current state of UT football when in reality that is not only just your opinion, but demonstrably false (as I already pointed out, genius, I didn't hire the coaches who succeeded your hero), is singularly risible.

Maybe you should take up reading or crossword puzzles. If you exercise your mind regularly, eventually it may get to where it can function at a normal adult level.
 
#93
#93
lifeisdeep said:
You are a champion of irony without even realizing it. You may not be aware of this, but you blathering verbal diarrhea over and over again about it just being my "opinion," and then with a straight face asserting as fact that I and other fans caused the current state of UT football when in reality that is not only just your opinion, but demonstrably false (as I already pointed out, genius, I didn't hire the coaches who succeeded your hero), is singularly risible.

Maybe you should take up reading or crossword puzzles. If you exercise your mind regularly, eventually it may get to where it can function at a normal adult level.
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Of course, it's my opinion, that's all any of us have is opinions. It's your opinion that it was time for Fulmer to go, it's my opinion that your an idiot on this subject. It's my opinion that Hamilton bowed to the pressure from fans and boosters like you that prompted him to make the change. The mistake was that those of us (alumni and boosters) that felt like he should be given the chance to fix it or help him understand that it was time for a change and to help find his successor, didn't yell loud enough about the process. But that's my opinion and yes I will hold a grudge against you and fans like you that have the arrogance to try and justify your assertions that it was the right move. Clearly it was not.
 
#94
#94
djohnnyg said:
It all started with the firing of Fulmer. He had a bad start to a season then...gotta fire his catfish eating azz. They should of kept him on as face of the program. Like PSU did with Paterno...or FSU with Bowden. Paterno and Bowden weren't calling X's and O's near the end. No way. Paterno hardly knew where he was...same with Bowden...but they had good assistants running things...and having them as the "face" of the program helped keep the recruiting train rolling. Same could of been done with Fulmer...and we don't go through all these years of exile in the wilderness. UT did this to themselves. Thinking they were so above slipping ONE YEAR. Oh no...can't have that at UT. Now look where we're at.
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Stupid thought process is stupid.
Fulmer started all this

And what does "should of" mean?
 
#95
#95
STOP the Press! You want me to watch a 20 minute video outlining my alma maters ineptness over the past 20 years?????? Would rather put my private parts in a vice, tighten it up, tie my hands behind my back and light the barn on fire.
 
#96
#96
It is a tragedy. There are only three venues I've ever walked into and felt chills the way you do at Neyland on game day: the Boston Garden (old one), Fenway, and Wrigley. When a college team has something like that they should be in the conversation every year. That we are a reliable win for Vandy now, which seems to play in some sort of oversized faux-Naval toilet . . . well, it is a damn tragedy.

I've thought about this a lot as a Vol fan. It really was Hamilton. He wrecked everything he touched here.

The Kiffin hire led to NCAA sanctions so that no one would come here. Just insane. Now we are stuck in a bad cycle like a whirlpool and we can't get out. If Pruitt isn't the next Dabo, then we are going to do it again.
 
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#97
#97
05_never_again said:
The single-worst decision of the last decade was the panic hire of Dooley after Kiffin left. That was even dumber than hiring Kiffin, because let's be real, nobody saw his departure coming and something like 95% of the fanbase was energized by him. There's a lot of revisionist history in this fanbase about how we "never liked" Kiffin and whatnot.

We were in a bad position no matter what, but the proper course of action at that time was to hire Cutcliffe and all his Duke assistants or appoint someone (Chaney or Kippy Brown were fine candidates) as interim and have a full year to conduct a normal coaching search. Instead Hammy panicked in order to preserve that year's recruiting class and gave the job to a guy who by his own admission wasn't cut out for it. That Dooley hire is truly staggering when you think about it...Dooley hadn't even been a coordinator before taking that job.
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Neither Johnny Majors nor Doug Dickey was a coordinator before being a head coach. Technically, Neyland was never a coordinator. Bear Bryant was never a coordinator. Dabo was only a coordinator for 7 games and he became interim head coach before he fired his OC and assumed the duties, so he wasn't a coordinator until after he became a head coach. Urban Meyer was never a coordinator.

Dooley hire was a reach based on what he'd done at LaTech but I can understand why it was done (head coaching experience and an SEC pedigree) moreso that I can understand why we hired Pruitt.
 
#98
#98
VolunteerHillbilly said:
Neither Johnny Majors nor Doug Dickey was a coordinator before being a head coach. Technically, Neyland was never a coordinator. Bear Bryant was never a coordinator. Dabo was only a coordinator for 7 games and he became interim head coach before he fired his OC and assumed the duties, so he wasn't a coordinator until after he became a head coach. Urban Meyer was never a coordinator.

Dooley hire was a reach based on what he'd done at LaTech but I can understand why it was done (head coaching experience and an SEC pedigree) moreso that I can understand why we hired Pruitt.
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The fact that he'd never been a coordinator, combined with the fact he'd gone 17-20 at La Tech, was staggering. I'm really curious as to why you think you can understand why the Dooley hire was done more than the Pruitt hire, especially given the context of the Dooley hire.

I don't think they even had coordinators in the sense we know them today in the Majors/Dickey/Neyland/Bryant era. Urban wasn't a coordinator before his first head job, but given he went 39-8 and had an undefeated top 5 team as a head coach the year before he took the Florida job kind of makes you more comfortable. If Dooley had gone 39-8 with a couple of top 25 finishes at La Tech before taking the Tennessee job, then the fact that he was never a coordinator isn't really worth mentioning.

Dabo is an outlier and is most definitely an exception that proves the rule. Nobody in their wildest dreams saw what he's done at Clemson coming.
 
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#99
#99
FLSTF-VOL said:
Are you really that dense? Of course, it's my opinion, that's all any of us have is opinions. It's your opinion that it was time for Fulmer to go, it's my opinion that your an idiot on this subject. It's my opinion that Hamilton bowed to the pressure from fans and boosters like you that prompted him to make the change. The mistake was that those of us (alumni and boosters) that felt like he should be given the chance to fix it or help him understand that it was time for a change and to help find his successor, didn't yell loud enough about the process. But that's my opinion and yes I will hold a grudge against you and fans like you that have the arrogance to try and justify your assertions that it was the right move. Clearly it was not.
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Unlike you, I actually supported my position both with logic and analogy; you have done nothing but resort to ad hominem, which you seem to think becomes more valid the more times you do it.
Once again, I'll ask the two questions that prove the idiocy of your claim:
1) How many D-1 championship-winning coaches have ever slipped, then rebounded and begun winning at a championship level again?
2) How many D-I schools were clamoring to hire your hero when we fired him?

It's patently obvious why you chose not to answer the above questions before - because you know they reveal clearly how preposterous your claim is. You can yell like a child until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't make you right.
 
#100
#100
lifeisdeep said:
Your stupidity is boundless.

Unlike you, I actually supported my position both with logic and analogy; you have done nothing but resort to ad hominem, which you seem to think becomes more valid the more times you do it.
Once again, I'll ask the two questions that prove the idiocy of your claim:
1) How many D-1 championship-winning coaches have ever slipped, then rebounded and begun winning at a championship level again?
2) How many D-I schools were clamoring to hire your hero when we fired him?

It's patently obvious why you chose not to answer the above questions before - because you know they reveal clearly how preposterous your claim is. You can yell like a child until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't make you right.
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The same arguments have been made ad nauseam for the past ten years and yet they are still as irrelevant today as they were then. You haven't supported your position at all. Neither of your questions have anything to do with the moment he was fired and the circumstances surrounding the decision and the consequences that followed. Hamilton caved to idiots like you. It was rushed with zero thought about how to do it and the consequences that would follow if it was botched. You ask me about how many D-1 schools wanted Fulmer....how about how many D-1 Coaches wanted Tennessee? The answer is pretty damn obvious given the past 10 years.
 
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