The Culture of Firing - when it’s wrong

[Orangeslice13]

In any scenario it would always cost less money to keep the coach you have. Especially when you have a blindly faithful fan base that will go to games and spend money no matter what.

It all just depends on what kind of program you want to be. A merely profitable one? Or do you reach into the couch cushions to find the money to get a coach that can increase your profits 100x down the road? Take your losses now as an investment for the future.

That’s actually not true.
At a point without winning these numbers will reverse. Without the extension this is a different conversation. Next year this is also a different conversation. It’s not just CJPs buyout that goes down. The assistant buyout goes down too.
I don’t think Tennessee is purely worried about profits. They would like to win but I do think profits are at least 80% of the motivation.

Fans would love the home run hire. Those same fans think there’s no way CJP can win next year.
Why do we think a coach can’t learn how to win but a university will suddenly learn how to hire?

 

[MWAVolfan]

Texas did it right. Fire coach and immediately hire big name coach to replace him. No coaching search fumbles. They acted like they knew what they were doing and actually had a plan, unlike Tennessee who watches a coach go 0-8 in the SEC and doesnt have a succession plan.

 

[Orangeslice13]

But why keep up
This cycle of stupidity every 3-4 years?
It’s such a giant waste of $$$$$....

The real problem isn’t the firing, it’s the hiring...
and until a home run hire is made then this cycle will Continue...

So Why bother trading in one lemon for another then paying the kings ransom too???
It’s a fools mission....

When we can get TOP coordinators and win now??
Chaney, Ansley are garbage...

And as you’ve implied....we don’t appear to be capable of hiring.

 

[MWAVolfan]

But why keep up
This cycle of stupidity every 3-4 years?
It’s such a giant waste of $$$$$....

The real problem isn’t the firing, it’s the hiring...
and until a home run hire is made then this cycle will Continue...

So Why bother trading in one lemon for another then paying the kings ransom too???
It’s a fools mission....

When we can get TOP coordinators and win now??
Chaney, Ansley are garbage...

We 100% know we have a crap coach now. Why continue to give him extensions and keep his highly paid staff? Bama fired 3 coaches in a row before getting Saban. You have to keep trying. We know for a fact Pruitt cant coach. Its a bigger waste of money to throw it away on someone you know wont get the job done ever. You have to operate off the things you know and hope for better in the future.

Texas got rid of Hermann. Florida got rid of McElwain. Auburn got rid of Mahlzan. All way more successful than Pruitt and two of those teams have hired multiple head coaches.

 

[tabrams]

We 100% know we have a crap coach now. Why continue to give him extensions and keep his highly paid staff? Bama fired 3 coaches in a row before getting Saban. You have to keep trying. We know for a fact Pruitt cant coach. Its a bigger waste of money to throw it away on someone you know wont get the job done ever.

Texas got rid of Hermann. Florida got rid of McElwain. Both way more successful than Pruitt and both teams have hired multiple head coaches.

We 100% know we have a crap coach now. Why continue to give him extensions and keep his highly paid staff? Bama fired 3 coaches in a row before getting Saban. You have to keep trying. We know for a fact Pruitt cant coach. Its a bigger waste of money to throw it away on someone you know wont get the job done ever.

Texas got rid of Hermann. Florida got rid of McElwain. Both way more successful than Pruitt and both teams have hired multiple head coaches.

The head coach is overrated... we just need top
Coordinators and go get the ball players....

Saban gets this... he hires the best...
Pruitt got 2 duds...

 

[tabrams]

Texas did it right. Fire coach and immediately hire big name coach to replace him. No coaching search fumbles. They acted like they knew what they were doing and actually had a plan, unlike Tennessee who watches a coach go 0-8 in the SEC and doesnt have a succession plan.

Texas is super dumb... got rid of Strong who is a good coach, then unloads Herman after 7-3... no pressure for Sark right?

Sark will crack and go back to drinkin like before lol... he’s never won anything and is better as an OC... Tx paid over 20 million for a 7-3 guy to leave..

This is insane!

 

[MWAVolfan]

And as you’ve implied....we don’t appear to be capable of hiring.

Tennessee's hiring practices are linked to one thing.... being cheap and previous university leadership that didnt value football above all else. You offer 7-9 million a year and you can get any coach you want to come to UT. But we try to offer coaches on the cheap and they wont bite because its too much pressure for the money at UT.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Tennessee's hiring practices are linked to one thing.... being cheap and previous university leadership that didnt value football above all else. You offer 7-9 million a year and you can get any coach you want to come to UT. But we try to offer coaches on the cheap and they wont bite because its too much pressure for the money at UT.

That’s what it will take to hire a winner.
It would be profitable to do that.
I remain unconvinced that Ut is willing to do that.
I’m very confident that when a change is made it will be another google coach.

 

[MWAVolfan]

Texas is super dumb... got rid of Strong who is a good coach, then unloads Herman after 7-3... no pressure for Sark right?

Sark will crack and go back to drinkin like before lol... he’s never won anything and is better as an OC... Tx paid over 20 million for a 7-3 guy to leave..

This is insane!

Auburn did the same. This is the way now. There's so much money in college football now. Don't let these idiots at UT turn their pockets out and pretend like they aren't all buying yachts and jets.

You cant swing a dead cat without finding a 20 million dollar pile of cash in the NCAA.

 

[tabrams]

Auburn did the same. This is the way now. There's so much money in college football now. Don't let these idiots at UT turn their pockets out and pretend like they aren't all buying yachts and jets.

You cant swing a dead cat without finding a 20 million dollar pile of cash in the NCAA.[/QUOTE

I think if we hired Freeze or another home run hire the fans would be really excited about it...
But we would prob get some coach from New Mexico or another coordinator that would probably fail...

 

[tabrams]

I think if we hired Freeze or another home run hire the fans would be really excited about it...
But we would prob get some coach from New Mexico or another coordinator that would probably fail...

 

[landscapingvol]

So many college football coaches are getting fired over the past 10 or so years, and sometimes too early... IMO, most of them should get more time...

The best case scenarios are when a champion coach comes in, wins big, then leaves/ retires with tge program in the hands of an assistant/ disciple... all the other coaches (or most) remain the same, and the program continues winning (ie Oklahoma, Ohio State, TN (majors/ Fulmer ), etc.

These schools are just going in circles...
look at Auburn, Texas, Ga, Michigan, TN.....
All hv done a lot of hiring and firing, but. None are consistently winning anything, or the “new” coaches aren’t clearly better than before....

So what’s the answer then? I think the answer is obvious.... the head coach is overrated....
I think you need a great OC and DC, solid position coaches mostly picked by those coordinators, and tremendous booster help in recruiting....

Without the top jimmies and Joe’s you cannot win the biggest games...

Look at LSU this year wow... what a difference losing their OC and top talent from last year...
Same head coach, totally different result....

Georgia has had two head coaches in the last 20 years and played for one NC. Auburn has had six, they have one NC and played for three others in that same time span. The only schools that fit your argument in terms of firing coached and not improving are Texas, Tennessee, Nebraska, and Michigan. It is extremely difficult to win at Michigan, Nebraska, and Tennessee due to relatively poor instate recruiting, and difficult conference matchups which makes the right head coach that much more important. Texas has great instate recruiting and facilities but they also have very powerful boosters who are extremely wealthy who mettle with coaching hires. However, they stuck with Mack Brown for nearly 20 years.

 

[driscokid]

Except no coach, accept maybe the coach at Knoxville Catholic, takes that deal.

Maybe but if they were going to make 4-5 million per year just no buyout why not take it. A lot more than they were making as an assistant or coach at a small school. I’m not talking about proven winners. I’m talking about people like Pruitt and the many others like him..

 

[volfanhill]

Maybe but if they were going to make 4-5 million per year just no buyout why not take it. A lot more than they were making as an assistant or coach at a small school. I’m not talking about proven winners. I’m talking about people like Pruitt and the many others like him..

Be Pruitt on the open market demanded what we paid him. It's a risk to leave his job as DC at Bama. UT didn't just give him his initial contract with the originally buyout for ***** and giggles. It's what it took to get the man to agree to the job. Take Butch Jones. HC at Cincinnati, heading to Colorado I think, when we swooped in last second. He had three decent years here and a train wreck season. Does he go back to coaching at a program equal to where he left? No he has to go to Ark State. There is risk in taking these jobs.

 

[driscokid]

Be Pruitt on the open market demanded what we paid him. It's a risk to leave his job as DC at Bama. UT didn't just give him his initial contract with the originally buyout for ***** and giggles. It's what it took to get the man to agree to the job. Take Butch Jones. HC at Cincinnati, heading to Colorado I think, when we swooped in last second. He had three decent years here and a train wreck season. Does he go back to coaching at a program equal to where he left? No he has to go to Ark State. There is risk in taking these jobs.

Yeah I’m just saying that the model should change to paying more per year and a lot less buyout. It should not cost millions to get rid of a failing coach. Has to be a better way. And the big buyout is not going to stop them from leaving if they want a better job

 

[tabrams]

Georgia has had two head coaches in the last 20 years and played for one NC. Auburn has had six, they have one NC and played for three others in that same time span. The only schools that fit your argument in terms of firing coached and not improving are Texas, Tennessee, Nebraska, and Michigan. It is extremely difficult to win at Michigan, Nebraska, and Tennessee due to relatively poor instate recruiting, and difficult conference matchups which makes the right head coach that much more important. Texas has great instate recruiting and facilities but they also have very powerfulgr boosters who are extremely wealthy who mettle with coaching hires. However, they stuck with Mack Brown for nearly 20 years.

Im Just saying tgat during Richt for Smart only marginally improved them... imo
Texas is a joke firing a guy 7-3 to hire a drink burned out OC with no proven record....

Nebraska is a total Joke but their firings hv been deserved....
Michigan just has had bad hires....harbaugh is a good coach just not great...
Auburn is a joke... fired a NC coach just to fire another coach for a young gamble.. they are a joke imo...

 

[landscapingvol]

Well we are playing much much steeper competition

We sure are when we lose to Vanderbilt, BYU, Georgia State, SC, Kentucky, Mizzou, Arkansas, and Mississippi State. Clemson is 6-3 vs Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, and LSU since 2013.

 

[tabrams]

Yeah I’m just saying that the model should change to paying more per year and a lot less buyout. It should not cost millions to get rid of a failing coach. Has to be a better way. And the big buyout is not going to stop them from leaving if they want a better job

Bingo!
UT negotiates tge worst contracts! Look at Kiffin, look at Pruitt!!! WTHeck are we doing??

 

[Atlanta917]

So many college football coaches are getting fired over the past 10 or so years, and sometimes too early... IMO, most of them should get more time...

The best case scenarios are when a champion coach comes in, wins big, then leaves/ retires with tge program in the hands of an assistant/ disciple... all the other coaches (or most) remain the same, and the program continues winning (ie Oklahoma, Ohio State, TN (majors/ Fulmer ), etc.

These schools are just going in circles...
look at Auburn, Texas, Ga, Michigan, TN.....
All hv done a lot of hiring and firing, but. None are consistently winning anything, or the “new” coaches aren’t clearly better than before....

So what’s the answer then? I think the answer is obvious.... the head coach is overrated....
I think you need a great OC and DC, solid position coaches mostly picked by those coordinators, and tremendous booster help in recruiting....

Without the top jimmies and Joe’s you cannot win the biggest games...

Look at LSU this year wow... what a difference losing their OC and top talent from last year...
Same head coach, totally different result....

How does UGA or Auburn fit this criteria? Neither have done a lot of HC firing and both have won SEC championships and played for national championships.

 

[tabrams]

How does UGA or Auburn fit this criteria? Neither have done a lot of HC firing and both have won SEC championships and played for national championships.

Georgia is borderline... im
Just saying they fired Richt who won 10 games/ year for a guy that wins maybe 1 more game/ year..

So I’m not sure they improved much... I guess tgey improved marginally snd got a younger coach so I guess that was smart but it doesn’t seem right to me..

Auburn is a total Joke...czick was fired after winning a title too quickly, replaced by malzahn, now he’s fired after a decent year..... then they bring in a young unproven coach... to me tgey are desperate but won’t find the answer this way imo...

They are trying, I’ll give them that, but very dumb the way they are going about it...

 

[Birdie]

At what point does a coach need to show competence though?

It's not Pruitt's record. It is his philosophies (pound the rock with good D doesn't work in the offensive game anymore), management of the roster (why did he not play his talented freshman in a year it didn't affect their eligibility and get them experience for 2021?), refusal to adjust his scheme and play calling to his players (he keeps saying "we called the same plays at Bama" coach, you don't have 5*'s everywhere), and his decision making (JG and QB mgmt, blowing through coaches, nobody in the complex likes him, didn't take Georgia state seriously, didn't push the team in off-season because he didn't think we'd play this year).

CJP's philosophies and decision making are not winning coach level. He is not now nor will be a winning coach anytime soon. In 3yrs he has regressed.

Chasing coaches that are only going to win on Saban's level is foolish. If you have a clearly good coach, like a Harbaugh, you don't fire him. With the money at lower tier programs from TV contracts it's clear that change is occurring. Cosches don't need to be at TN or Texas to make big money now but a school does need to make a change as soon as they know they have a dud coach who is no better than a 5-6 HC. I.e. Pruitt.

 

[Atlanta917]

Georgia is borderline... im
Just saying they fired Richt who won 10 games/ year for a guy that wins maybe 1 more game/ year..

So I’m not sure they improved much... I guess tgey improved marginally snd got a younger coach so I guess that was smart but it doesn’t seem right to me..

Auburn is a total Joke...czick was fired after winning a title too quickly, replaced by malzahn, now he’s fired after a decent year..... then they bring in a young unproven coach... to me tgey are desperate but won’t find the answer this way imo...

They are trying, I’ll give them that, but very dumb the way they are going about it...

For UGA, Richt crashed and burned at Miami. It wasn’t like UGA had the options of early Richt vs Smart. They had the Richt who struggled against ranked opponents and Smart. It was prettt clear Richt lost his fire/passion at the end of his career. Considering Smart took a team of half Richt’s players to a place Richt never did, I’d say they made the right decision.

For Auburn, it’s pretty clear Chizik caught lightning in a bottle with Cam. There’s a reason Chizik hasn’t been able to get another HC job. I can see both sides for Malzahn. On one hand he’s actually had decent success against Saban and was close to securing a playoff spot in 2017. On the other hand he hasn’t been able to develop a QB, regularly loses to UGA, and has been dropping games he shouldn’t.

Both teams, UGA more so than Auburn, have had a ton more success than the others listed. Neither are fighting to get back to national relevance and have been a constant in the end of season rankings.

I agree some teams move on too early and you shouldn’t fire a guy unless you know you have someone better ready. Imo Texas made the right decision moving on from Herman because they had Sark ready. I don’t think JH is the guy for Michigan, but maybe they aren’t confident they can get a better coach. I honestly don’t know about Tennessee. In my eyes Pruitt is similar to Smart. Elite recruiter and defensive mind, but have an outdated offensive approach. The issue is Pruitt isn’t recruiting at an elite level and the defense has been hit or miss. Tough call on whether or not Pruitt needs more time or ppl have just overestimated his strengths.

 

[hog88]

you should check the numbers and adjust your analogy.


If as reported.....
Tv revenue is 34 mil a year
Ticket revenue 32 mil a year.
This year ticket revenue is down 75% because of Covid. (24 million)
Buyout for all staff is 21 million.
To break even on the buyout you assume complete sellouts.
Keep CJP saves money as long as ticket revenue exceeds 62% of capacity.
Add to it that we are not sure what Covid is going to do to tickets next year.

Financially I’d keep the truck I have

I don’t think you are taking into account the fact we will be replacing 3-4 or more assistants which will require us to overpay and give at least 2 year deals to. So if we end up firing him next year the total buyout will be equal to or more than it is now.

 

[Orangeslice13]

I don’t think you are taking into account the fact we will be replacing 3-4 or more assistants which will require us to overpay and give at least 2 year deals to. So if we end up firing him next year the total buyout will be equal to or more than it is now.

Let’s see your breakdown

 

[The Original Fade]

I’m glad someone brought up Dabo. After all he had no head coaching experience, and wasn’t a coordinator. In his first full season, they beat Fla St and won their division. They were generally competitive in every game. In his second full season, the record was worse but again they were competitive every game. They lost an OT game to eventual champs Auburn. But there’s more than just the record. He was recruiting 1st round picks Hopkins and Beasley. He already had Boyd on board. And he had a plan - and ambition - to expand their traditional recruiting footprint. He went into Fla to get Sammy Watkins. He held his own in Georgia and got Watson from there. And he bled over into Tennessee, first East and now the rest of the state. He grabbed our recruiting base and knew he’d be there longer than Dooley.

Pruitt isn’t getting us to play inspired ball. We aren’t competitive with our rivals, and we don’t seem to have a recruiting base these days. He better figure out something.

Well said