The Catch-22 of CKC's system

[Amb3096]

If I have expressed my thoughts properly, gamers would be players that while not stars, would find their way into a starting lineup for most or many quality top 12 type teams. Everyone knows these types, they come with no baggage and are highly self motivated. Gamers.

“No baggage”

Exactly! You can only go so far when your roster looks like “The Island of Misfit Toys”

 

[Orange007]

i think we could definitely do a nose dive into the system and all the things it takes but to me, with this group, there is one big problem. EFFORT. to think that last year's team, with far less athleticism, would smoke this year's team is truly amazing to me. CKC has always said it only works with effort and only half the team is bringing it.

 

[Rooster1]

“No baggage”

Exactly! You can only go so far when your roster looks like “The Island of Misfit Toys”

Some posters have used the terms mercurial and malcontent to describe certain personality traits. Far be it from me to say that I would be a great judge of these traits at this level before the fact for many players. But it does seem to me that these traits are often spotted or noticed beforehand by coaches who make a living in the sport. And it also seems to me that with such players a coach knowing this has made the decision to roll the dice so to speak and take a stab at changing that behavior. It comes with risk but sometimes reward also.

I seem to want to fall back to what has been written about already, body language, which should be a telling sign in my opinion along with a player’s past reputation on previous team(s).

 

[lvocd]

Great thread, everybody!

I have nothing of value to add. (You’re welcome. )

 

[glv98]

If I have expressed my thoughts properly, gamers would be players that while not stars, would find their way into a starting lineup for most or many quality top 12 type teams. Everyone knows these types, they come with no baggage and are highly self motivated. Gamers

Just not sure how sustainable it is to have to build a squad every year of such specialized players who are willing to play this way. And she needs 10 of them who are interchangeable to be able to shift sub fully which is the ideal goal of the system .

Goes back to the chicken and egg question: wouldn't it be easier to just get the best players you can get and build a system around them instead of vice versa?

 

[Rooster1]

Just not sure how sustainable it is to have to build a squad every year of such specialized players who are willing to play this way. And she needs 10 of them who are interchangeable to be able to shift sub fully which is the ideal goal of the system .

Goes back to the chicken and egg question: wouldn't it be easier to just get the best players you can get and build a system around them instead of vice versa?

I agree with you here completely. I was only speaking in reference to what some were calling problems to team chemistry and how they may have arrived at UT. I watch every SC WBB game, have for about 14 years now. I saw every game Coop ever played in at SC.

Again, I’m not qualified to diagnose any player in such matters, but even back then she was always very iffy in body language, the kind of stuff fans see and wonder about. From my perspective back then, it was likely due to her being behind several veterans, it was hard to say. But it was there when she played, we all saw it. I just didn’t know how to process it. I think coaches who are closer to the situation know best. She is a great young person no doubt, just an observation. With Barker, it was also an issue all the way back to aTm. So a new coach who takes it on rolls the dice I suppose. Take on1-2 of these types at a time and you risk team chemistry in a meaningful way…..

 

[AllVols3]

Just not sure how sustainable it is to have to build a squad every year of such specialized players who are willing to play this way. And she needs 10 of them who are interchangeable to be able to shift sub fully which is the ideal goal of the system .

Goes back to the chicken and egg question: wouldn't it be easier to just get the best players you can get and build a system around them instead of vice versa?

Would she even have the job without her system ? That's what DW bought into. She needs to revamp it and get better in the half court on both ends . She can still play extremely fast with a revamp.

 

[NeedOrange]

The hockey sub is not a new idea. It's an elementary school gimmick to keep all the parents happy. It's not some fiendishly clever scheme and it is definitely in the wrong era. I don't know if you noticed it but we're in the era of 'My Brand'. Agents/managers/moms know the quickest way to riches is to develop a brand. Find a clever package and market it, get a bunch of clicks and make some money. Wining has nothing to do with making money. (see Cavinder twins) Recruiting today isn't completed until the recruit stops by the BDO (Brand Development Officer). Who has almost as much leverage with getting kids to sign as the head coach. How do you think Gottlieb got the number 1 recruits to go to a losing program. Where else are you going to develop a better brand? LA, Baby! LA! Sublimating yourself into a hockey line does your brand no good. Whatever springboard athletics give you to launch your brand is sublimated to walking off the court every 3 minutes. My advice for the LV future, call Andraya. She knows hoop, she knows marketing and everyone loves her. Stop paying your coaches $750,000. Give Coach Carter $3M a house and a couple of cars. See if she will come home. Just thinkin'

 

[Rooster1]

Where has “coach Carter” ever coached before? Just thinking.

 

[glv98]

Where has “coach Carter” ever coached before? Just thinking.

Right. Because having no experience at this level has worked out so well. . .

 

[1reVOLver]

“No baggage”

Exactly! You can only go so far when your roster looks like “The Island of Misfit Toys”

 

[VintageFan]

One last thing to say about the culture. For the love of God, can coaches PLEASE implement a team rule that says that you can't date your teammates? Look, no good will ever come of this. It will probably end, and it will surely get ugly. Stop sh!tting where you eat! Your coach and teammates will thank you for this.

One of the best pieces of advice I ever got from father was "Don't play where you draw your pay." I never thought of it as something that would apply to collegiate women's basketball, but I guess in the NIL era it does!

 

[VintageFan]

I just don't want to see another record set for the largest margin of defeat.

Neither did Missouri.

 

[VintageFan]

I'm of the mindset that the truth is somewhere in the middle. The system worked much better last year. It wasn't perfect, but you could see the potential. So what changed?

I wasn't thrilled about Barker joining the team...not because I didn't think she was a good player, but because it was clear that she would be the type of player that would be a locker room nightmare for a coach to manage...let alone a coach like CKC who hasn't demonstrated the fortitude to reign in these types of personalities. If she was going to play for Geno or Dawn or Kim Mulkey, it's different. She would be sitting on the bench until they were satisfied. But Kim is not doing that, and I think it's to the detriment of the team.

The system...I'm not completely off of it. I think there are elements that can be incorporated into a successful gameplan, but it can't be a one trick pony. And it certainly can't be a one trick pony that none of the players are buying into. It's Kim's fault for not coming up with a gameplan that suits her needs, but at the same time, it's also the players' fault because they knew coming in what the system was. For players like Spearman and Cooper who had career years playing this system, it's even more surprising to see them regress.

Good point about the "one trick pony." There's an old saying I used to tell my marketing clients who didn't want to try new techniques: "If the only skill you have is using a hammer then every problem or opportunity looks like a nail."

 

[rickyyrs]

One of the things i see is, when you get a couple of players hot from the field, then you take them out after three or four
minutes. Then when they press against good teams they get easy layups.

 

[creekdipper]

Where has “coach Carter” ever coached before? Just thinking.

I saw the movie.

 

[macrovol]

I think the freshmen just hit the proverbial wall mid January. The future is still bright.

 

[KTrain]

What's difficult to comprehend is why the setback this year? Last year, they set a really good foundation for how disruptive this style of play could be, and they put the fear of God in a lot of teams that were more highly regarded than them. On paper, Kim did all the right things. I think it boils down to the new players she brought in and the culture that was forming on the team...both of which are probably toxic. I think "the system" could work with some tweaking, but more importantly, a more mature group of players. I'm not blaming the freshmen, but the upperclassmen (namely, Cooper, Whitehorn and Spearman) needed to lead by example even if they weren't vocal leaders. So you then have Whitehorn kicked off the team for acting like a fool, and bring in the volatile Barker, and your culture goes down the drain. You can almost see it in the face of someone like Latham, who just wants to work hard and play the game, but is surrounded by these distractions.

I agree with all you said but one thing the OP left out of his street cred qualifications. KC has won a Natty and even though at a lower level. It has worked bringing coaches up from lower level. Take Nate Oats at Bama, he was a 11 year extremely successful high School coach with a State championship that used analytics and then an assistant at Buffalo and then hand picked in 2019 for Bama and in his 5th year he took a football school to the final 4 in Men's Basketball. There is just not 1 recipe for a HC.
There will never be another Pat, she stepped in to UT when college basketball for women was just bad and she worked her tail off to get recognition for a scraggly program. Nobody will ever do that again her records will never be broken because she was a pioneer, the landscape is totally different and nobody will ever have the roadblocks she had to encounter. Everyone knows WBB basketball is a lot better top to bottom right now than it has ever been, and one of, if not the main orchestrater of that was Pat.

 

[cwbytruckers]

One last thing to say about the culture. For the love of God, can coaches PLEASE implement a team rule that says that you can't date your teammates? Look, no good will ever come of this. It will probably end, and it will surely get ugly. Stop sh!tting where you eat! Your coach and teammates will thank you for this.

Something you would like to share? I suspected something like this but didnt know who or if it was true.

 

[Amb3096]

Something you would like to share? I suspected something like this but didnt know who or if it was true.

People here were saying that Whitehorn and Spearman were a couple.

Pretty sure that there were also player couples during both Kellie (Key/Horston) and Holly's (Massengill and ?) tenures.

 

[brittannica]

People here were saying that Whitehorn and Spearman were a couple.

Pretty sure that there were also player couples during both Kellie (Key/Horston) and Holly's (Massengill and ?) tenures.

They weren't. Ruby's girlfriend sat near our seats last season. She was notable because she came alone and was always wearing Ruby merch. We also had Ruby sign a basketball last season, and the same woman was waiting politely on Ruby.

 

[37620VOL]

People here were saying that Whitehorn and Spearman were a couple.

Clearly and wholly inaccurate

 

[Amb3096]

They weren't. Ruby's girlfriend sat near our seats last season. She was notable because she came alone and was always wearing Ruby merch. We also had Ruby sign a basketball last season, and the same woman was waiting politely on Ruby.

Clearly and wholly inaccurate

I stand corrected then. No one disputed it when it was brought up here before, so I saw no reason to think it was a false rumor.

In any event, I still stand by my original statement. Players shouldn't date each other. It WILL get messy and create unnecessary distractions to the detriment of the team.

 

[37620VOL]

I stand corrected then. No one disputed it when it was brought up here before, so I saw no reason to think it was a false rumor.

In any event, I still stand by my original statement. Players shouldn't date each other. It WILL get messy and create unnecessary distractions to the detriment of the team.

I agree with you on that. I don't recall dating rumors on this board, but maybe there were. I just remember arguing about eyelashes and fingernails, you know, the important stuff.

 

[brittannica]

I stand corrected then. No one disputed it when it was brought up here before, so I saw no reason to think it was a false rumor.

In any event, I still stand by my original statement. Players shouldn't date each other. It WILL get messy and create unnecessary distractions to the detriment of the team.

Yeah, there was a rumor of a messy love triangle involving Jersey, Last Tear, and Mikaylah at LSU last season. There is a reason only one of them is still there. I imagine Kim lost her mind over that.