The Atlanta Braves Thread

#68,905
#68,905
05_never_again said:
One thing I've noticed in the media coverage of this so far is that there isn't much file footage being shown of his wife. Maybe a picture/video of them at some red carpet event, but that's it. Lots of footage of him, or him and his daughter together. I know that's because his daughter was also killed, but I also wonder if it is because showing too much of his wife reminds people of his rape case and the press conference he did with his wife in particular. Also lots of talk about how his daughters and his friends will miss him, not so much about how his wife will miss him.

I'm not even a huge basketball fan but I was stunned speechless when I saw that he had died, so I totally understand people's emotional reaction to it. However, there is the usual attempt to canonize him by the media - Ramona Shelburne said multiple times on ESPN yesterday that he was a "spiritual figure" and "like the mayor of Los Angeles." I mean, if you are upset by his death that's fine, but I thought that was hyperbolic.

Kobe's legacy is not really simple and straightforward - it's complicated. Most really famous people like him are. It's really taboo to speak ill of the dead, but there should be a more objective reading of his legacy as time goes on. He did seem to soften up as he got older, and by all accounts he did seem like a loving a committed dad. But the rape case isn't a footnote or minor detail, and if it happened in a more contemporary media age it seems possible he never would have been allowed to return to the NBA. He should be viewed in light of that too.
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Well, there's complicated and then there's rape. I'd be more comfortable calling it "complicated" if he had ever faced any reckoning for what he did. Instead Kobe (and the NBA world, and the sports media) treated it more or less like he'd had a near-death experience, an unfortunate close call. He bought his wife some huge piece of jewelry to apologize for "cheating" and he moved on. And while it's impressive that he was able to go forth and do a lot better in the rest of his life -- and I do mean that, I'm not just saying it dismissively -- I just don't see how you can have redemption without contrition. Not for rape, anyway. And yet somehow he's become this Christ-like figure. Agh.
 
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#68,907
#68,907
A man you don’t know who positively impacted the entire globe and was a very dedicated father that literally just passed away and all you can think to do is rush to the internet and drudge through things you have no first or second or third hand knowledge of. Speaks more to you than him.

Let me know when you’re off the soapbox and I’ll read a post you make.
 
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#68,909
#68,909
Vercingetorix said:
Well, there's complicated and then there's rape. I'd be more comfortable calling it "complicated" if he had ever faced any reckoning for what he did. Instead Kobe (and the NBA world, and the sports media) treated it more or less like he'd had a near-death experience, an unfortunate close call. He bought his wife some huge piece of jewelry to apologize for "cheating" and he moved on. And while it's impressive that he was able to go forth and do a lot better in the rest of his life, I just don't see how you can have redemption without contrition. Not for rape, anyway. And yet somehow he's become this Christ-like figure. Agh.
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I say "complicated" because he wasn't actually found guilty of anything, in contrast to a case like Mike Tyson, where he actually was tried, found guilty, and went to prison. And once that was over, Tyson was actually able to step back into his old life like nothing had ever happened, too.

If you're saying that he should have faced more reckoning in terms of career/reputation damage than he did, then I totally agree with that. And if he did what he was accused of doing in 2018 rather than 2003, he certainly would have. He would have been caught up in #MeToo if accused of that today, and potentially never heard from again. Instead he was basically allowed to step back into his old life like nothing happened, even though there was a quasi-admission on his part (i.e., "I didn't rape her, but I see why she thinks I did.").
 
#68,910
#68,910
TBrown said:
A man you don’t know who positively impacted the entire globe and was a very dedicated father that literally just passed away and all you can think to do is rush to the internet and drudge through things you have no first or second or third hand knowledge of. Speaks more to you than him.

Let me know when you’re off the soapbox and I’ll read a post you make.
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I don't think anybody is saying he didn't make an impact or wasn't a dedicated father. I understand why people are mourning him, I really do, and I'm not criticizing anybody for being upset that he and his daughter died. Especially if he was someone you grew up spending a lot of time watching. I'm not on the "you never even knew the guy, so why are you upset" train, which I agree is a game that a lot of snarky smartasses on the internet like to play.

My critique is more about the media, which is covering him and his legacy as a human being as if he was God-like. How he should be viewed as a human being is a little more complicated than that, IMO. I love sports, but I really try and shy away from the deification of athletes (or anybody for that matter), even if they probably are great people.
 
#68,911
#68,911
05_never_again said:
I don't think anybody is saying he didn't make an impact or wasn't a dedicated father. I understand why people are mourning him, I really do, and I'm not criticizing anybody for being upset that he and his daughter died. Especially if he was someone you grew up spending a lot of time watching. I'm not on the "you never even knew the guy, so why are you upset" train, which I agree is a game that a lot of snarky smartasses on the internet like to play.

My critique is more about the media, which is covering him and his legacy as a human being as if he was God-like. How he should be viewed as a human being is a little more complicated than that, IMO. I love sports, but I really try and shy away from the deification of athletes (or anybody for that matter), even if they probably are great people.
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Was not directed at you. I haven’t been reading most of the actual posts because I don’t think this the time or place to participate in such a discussion.
 
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#68,914
#68,914
TBrown said:
A man you don’t know who positively impacted the entire globe and was a very dedicated father that literally just passed away and all you can think to do is rush to the internet and drudge through things you have no first or second or third hand knowledge of. Speaks more to you than him.

Let me know when you’re off the soapbox and I’ll read a post you make.
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Isn't the first time I've been called an ass for saying something negative but true about the recently dead and it certainly won't be the last. Just wait till Ray Lewis dies.
 
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#68,916
#68,916
05_never_again said:
I don't think anybody is saying he didn't make an impact or wasn't a dedicated father. I understand why people are mourning him, I really do, and I'm not criticizing anybody for being upset that he and his daughter died. Especially if he was someone you grew up spending a lot of time watching. I'm not on the "you never even knew the guy, so why are you upset" train, which I agree is a game that a lot of snarky smartasses on the internet like to play.

My critique is more about the media, which is covering him and his legacy as a human being as if he was God-like. How he should be viewed as a human being is a little more complicated than that, IMO. I love sports, but I really try and shy away from the deification of athletes (or anybody for that matter), even if they probably are great people.
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The Washington Post suspended a news reporter last night for tweeting a link to an article about the rape allegations. It's incredible.
 
#68,917
#68,917
Vercingetorix said:
Isn't the first time I've been called an ass for saying something negative but true about the recently dead and it certainly won't be the last. Just wait till Ray Lewis dies.
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I’m not calling you an ass. I’m telling you that you are speaking volumes about yourself and nothing about Kobe Bryant.
 
#68,921
#68,921
Vercingetorix said:
The Washington Post suspended a news reporter last night for tweeting a link to an article about the rape allegations. It's incredible.
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I felt conflicted about that.

Is the rape case a legitimate part of the story of his life/legacy? Yes, and at some point it needs to be part of the conversation about his legacy. Did the reporter tweet that 2 hours after he died as a smug "look at me" gesture purely to get attention and not for any journalistic reason? Probably. Being smug I find to be a really unattractive quality in people, even if I agree with the point they might be trying to make.
 
#68,922
#68,922
05_never_again said:
I felt conflicted about that.

Is the rape case a legitimate part of the story of his life/legacy? Yes, and at some point it needs to be part of the conversation about his legacy. Did the reporter tweet that 2 hours after he died as a smug "look at me" gesture purely to get attention and not for any journalistic reason? Probably. Being smug I find to be a really unattractive quality in people, even if I agree with the point they might be trying to make.
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Or maybe the journalist in question is a victim of sexual assault and a public attempt to downplay it herself, in which case it's easy to see how she might have been frustrated with the coverage she'd spent all day reading.
 
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