Texas v. Tennessee

#1

WhatInVolnation

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#1
Texas and Tennessee are both languishing, Tennessee obviously more so than Texas. Texas basically had its Fulmer in Mack Brown who was truly excellent for a long period of time but always was just short of a title but then he, just like Fulmer, finally won one in 2005 and was oh so close again in 2009 but had Colt McCoy get hurt early against Alabama and lose the title game. The wheels came off thereafter for Mack. Kind of like for Fulmer after UT lost the 2001 SEC championship game to LSU. I think the parallels there are striking.

The difference, aside from the benefit of in-state talent, between Texas and Tennessee is how the two are going about getting the ship righted. When Texas came to the determination that Mack could no longer win at the highest levels, Texas fired Mack and hired Charlie Strong. Strong was a hot candidate (perhaps the hottest candidate) at the time but just didn't work out at Texas. Texas didn't sit idle and fired him after three mediocre years. Texas then went out and hired Tom Herman, who was the "IT" candidate at the time. Herman has improved the team from Strong's three years but Texas is dissatisfied with 5-3 in Herman's fourth year. Now, Texas looks like it is legitimately going after Urban Meyer (Rivals.com - Fact or Fiction: Urban Meyer will take the Texas job) despite the cost of it. Texas knows that getting a winner pays for itself. Texas, moreover, is targeting Meyer, who has won three (3) national titles, knowing full well the den of iniquity he left in Gainesville (a program that was coming unglued due to player misconduct by all accounts) under the guise of a health issue after winning two (2) national titles and then, after some time off, went to Ohio State and won one (1) national title and retired again under the guise of a health issue still with the stain of similar issues at Ohio State. And guess what, Texas DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE MEYER BAGGAGE AT ALL. TEXAS WANTS TO WIN AND WIN BIG AND TEXAS KNOWS MEYER IS THE ONE THAT CAN DO IT.

In a parallel universe, Tennessee fired Fulmer when it came to the determination that he could no longer win at the highest levels. Instead of using its, at the time, prestige and brand power to get the hot candidate, or one of the hottest candidates, Hamilton went with Lane Kiffin. In fairness, Kiffin was probably a good hire. The issue was Hamilton committed an unforgivable gaffe in having a very low buyout even in the early years, which was probably a reaction to having to pay Fulmer a lot of money for his payout. It was absurd, of course, because UT was not going to fire Kiffin without cause in the early years (and for cause should've nixed any buyout) and that contractual fiasco allowed USCw to swoop in and leave us in the lurch after a single year. Rather than bring real money to the table and get a good coach (and also hampered by the timing), UT went cheap and hired Dooley, who was maybe the worst coach UT has ever had, and UT was never even .500 under Dooley. UT then decided to go bargain bin shopping again and we got Butch Jones after getting turned down by other candidates (including Strong) and we all know how that ended. Then, I presume because of Jimmy Haslam, UT decided to focus solely on Greg Schiano for some unknown reason when Dan Mullen was winning big ("big" being adjusted for it being Mississippi State) in Starkville while UF was flirting with Chip Kelly and others. By the time the Schiano fiasco was done, Mullen knew UF would likely be his and he refused UT's overtures as he waited for UF to come calling, which it did. UT then had to hire Pruitt - who, by the way, I think was the best option UT had once the Schiano nonsense occurred because the window for getting Mullen had closed by then and I still prefer Pruitt over the other options at the time. Now, Fulmer somehow has committed another egregious AD gaffe. He extended Pruitt but not in the cagey typical AD extension where the term increases, and maybe even a raise given, but the buyout increases only modestly and any income from another job offsets the payout. No, instead he nearly doubled the payout if UT fires Pruitt AND has no mitigation of the payout clause so Pruitt is just sitting on $12MM. Meanwhile, our nearly broke AD will not fire Pruitt and hire Freeze who we all know could win at UT. Rather than do what is necessary to win, UT and its fans clutch our pearls about the money to buy Pruitt out and about Freeze's baggage, which is admittedly considerable but, I would suggest, not to the level of Meyer's baggage. The notable difference between Meyer and Freeze is, of course, the national titles but not much else.

So, where we are is we count our pennies and clutch our pearls in Knoxville and have a misplaced arrogance in Tennessee being too good for someone like Freeze because he cheated to recruit and called escorts with Ole Miss phones. Meanwhile, Texas is going to go hire Meyer, despite all of his notable transgressions. The end result will be Texas will win a national title within the next five years and we will be bargain bin shopping in 2021 after Freeze has headed elsewhere, likely Auburn, and we will just wander the hinterlands of college football forever.
 
#4
#4
Urine Meyer - 3 national titles
Freeze - 0 national titles.

One is worth all the nasty behind the curtains activity because he has proven to be a winner at different schools. The other has not and still all of the nasty.
My point being - adjusted for Texas' current advantages of money, recruiting ground, absence of competitors outside of OU, etc., Freeze is to Tennessee what Meyer is to Texas.
 
#5
#5
Texas has commitment to excellence from the top down...we do not, and haven't for a long time. As long as the $$ keeps rolling in for whatever orange-clad product they roll out, it will continue the same way.
 
#6
#6
Texas has commitment to excellence from the top down...we do not, and haven't for a long time. As long as the $$ keeps rolling in for whatever orange-clad product they roll out, it will continue the same way.
Rick Barnes disagrees. They make changes but haven't had great success with their choices

Look how many mistakes bama made before Saban and that wouldn't have happened had rich rod taken it first
 
#8
#8
Ask away boys. Herman gone but they can’t fire him yet. They have to be patient with urban and not scare him off. If you fire Herman now you do just that. Texas is a top 2 job in the country. We are a top 12. If the get urban and they prob will. Texas will be back
 
#9
#9
Ask away boys. Herman gone but they can’t fire him yet. They have to be patient with urban and not scare him off. If you fire Herman now you do just that. Texas is a top 2 job in the country. We are a top 12. If the get urban and they prob will. Texas will be back
Send Herman to TN with a few recruiters and we'll be fine
 
#11
#11
My point being - adjusted for Texas' current advantages of money, recruiting ground, absence of competitors outside of OU, etc., Freeze is to Tennessee what Meyer is to Texas.

If A&M was still in the Big 12, things might be a little different. A&M sh*t all over Texas when they came to this conference, it’s affected them big time in recruiting, etc.
 
#13
#13
Rick Barnes disagrees. They make changes but haven't had great success with their choices

Look how many mistakes bama made before Saban and that wouldn't have happened had rich rod taken it first
But they are swinging for the fences in a way we've NEVER tried to do. I would say the Herman hire was an attempt at a hot name that was a cultural fit. At least they tried. Us? We go hire a coordinator from our biggest rival.

The boosters in Texas have a special affinity for the football program, and likely are spearheading this effort.

Our boosters aren't just happy running the Vols in the ground, they buy an NFL franchise and do the same thing.
 
#14
#14
Ask away boys. Herman gone but they can’t fire him yet. They have to be patient with urban and not scare him off. If you fire Herman now you do just that. Texas is a top 2 job in the country. We are a top 12. If the get urban and they prob will. Texas will be back

Probably true
 
#15
#15
But they are swinging for the fences in a way we've NEVER tried to do. I would say the Herman hire was an attempt at a hot name that was a cultural fit. At least they tried. Us? We go hire a coordinator from our biggest rival.

The boosters in Texas have a special affinity for the football program, and likely are spearheading this effort.

Our boosters aren't just happy running the Vols in the ground, they buy an NFL franchise and do the same thing.
kiffin was a bigger swing than strong imo. Big swing and a miss is still a strike

Texas just has bigger pockets than we ever will
 
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#16
#16
Texas and Tennessee are both languishing, Tennessee obviously more so than Texas. Texas basically had its Fulmer in Mack Brown who was truly excellent for a long period of time but always was just short of a title but then he, just like Fulmer, finally won one in 2005 and was oh so close again in 2009 but had Colt McCoy get hurt early against Alabama and lose the title game. The wheels came off thereafter for Mack. Kind of like for Fulmer after UT lost the 2001 SEC championship game to LSU. I think the parallels there are striking.

The difference, aside from the benefit of in-state talent, between Texas and Tennessee is how the two are going about getting the ship righted. When Texas came to the determination that Mack could no longer win at the highest levels, Texas fired Mack and hired Charlie Strong. Strong was a hot candidate (perhaps the hottest candidate) at the time but just didn't work out at Texas. Texas didn't sit idle and fired him after three mediocre years. Texas then went out and hired Tom Herman, who was the "IT" candidate at the time. Herman has improved the team from Strong's three years but Texas is dissatisfied with 5-3 in Herman's fourth year. Now, Texas looks like it is legitimately going after Urban Meyer (Rivals.com - Fact or Fiction: Urban Meyer will take the Texas job) despite the cost of it. Texas knows that getting a winner pays for itself. Texas, moreover, is targeting Meyer, who has won three (3) national titles, knowing full well the den of iniquity he left in Gainesville (a program that was coming unglued due to player misconduct by all accounts) under the guise of a health issue after winning two (2) national titles and then, after some time off, went to Ohio State and won one (1) national title and retired again under the guise of a health issue still with the stain of similar issues at Ohio State. And guess what, Texas DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE MEYER BAGGAGE AT ALL. TEXAS WANTS TO WIN AND WIN BIG AND TEXAS KNOWS MEYER IS THE ONE THAT CAN DO IT.

In a parallel universe, Tennessee fired Fulmer when it came to the determination that he could no longer win at the highest levels. Instead of using its, at the time, prestige and brand power to get the hot candidate, or one of the hottest candidates, Hamilton went with Lane Kiffin. In fairness, Kiffin was probably a good hire. The issue was Hamilton committed an unforgivable gaffe in having a very low buyout even in the early years, which was probably a reaction to having to pay Fulmer a lot of money for his payout. It was absurd, of course, because UT was not going to fire Kiffin without cause in the early years (and for cause should've nixed any buyout) and that contractual fiasco allowed USCw to swoop in and leave us in the lurch after a single year. Rather than bring real money to the table and get a good coach (and also hampered by the timing), UT went cheap and hired Dooley, who was maybe the worst coach UT has ever had, and UT was never even .500 under Dooley. UT then decided to go bargain bin shopping again and we got Butch Jones after getting turned down by other candidates (including Strong) and we all know how that ended. Then, I presume because of Jimmy Haslam, UT decided to focus solely on Greg Schiano for some unknown reason when Dan Mullen was winning big ("big" being adjusted for it being Mississippi State) in Starkville while UF was flirting with Chip Kelly and others. By the time the Schiano fiasco was done, Mullen knew UF would likely be his and he refused UT's overtures as he waited for UF to come calling, which it did. UT then had to hire Pruitt - who, by the way, I think was the best option UT had once the Schiano nonsense occurred because the window for getting Mullen had closed by then and I still prefer Pruitt over the other options at the time. Now, Fulmer somehow has committed another egregious AD gaffe. He extended Pruitt but not in the cagey typical AD extension where the term increases, and maybe even a raise given, but the buyout increases only modestly and any income from another job offsets the payout. No, instead he nearly doubled the payout if UT fires Pruitt AND has no mitigation of the payout clause so Pruitt is just sitting on $12MM. Meanwhile, our nearly broke AD will not fire Pruitt and hire Freeze who we all know could win at UT. Rather than do what is necessary to win, UT and its fans clutch our pearls about the money to buy Pruitt out and about Freeze's baggage, which is admittedly considerable but, I would suggest, not to the level of Meyer's baggage. The notable difference between Meyer and Freeze is, of course, the national titles but not much else.

So, where we are is we count our pennies and clutch our pearls in Knoxville and have a misplaced arrogance in Tennessee being too good for someone like Freeze because he cheated to recruit and called escorts with Ole Miss phones. Meanwhile, Texas is going to go hire Meyer, despite all of his notable transgressions. The end result will be Texas will win a national title within the next five years and we will be bargain bin shopping in 2021 after Freeze has headed elsewhere, likely Auburn, and we will just wander the hinterlands of college football forever.
Has Meyer ever had NCAA infractions against him? Pruitt was always going to get 4-5 years regardless of if Meyer and Freeze are currently available.
 
#17
#17
That's one thing I really don't like about the whole Freeze discussion. Everybody's like 'Oh, we gotta get him now or he'll be at Auburn, or SC, or Vandy, or wherever'. When you go out looking for a new car, it's best to find about 4 or 5 you like. That way, if one falls through, you've got others to fall back on and you don't get frantic and make yourself a bad deal. It's kind of the same with this whole coach search idea. If Freeze gets gone, don't worry, there'll be a brand new hot, can't miss item to replace him. Next year Kiffin's buyout will be less and he may have shown some real progress, the guy at Coastal Carolina may come available, Freeze may still be around. I wouldn't work myself into a frenzy over this stuff. There'll always be somebody out there to go after.
 
#18
#18
But they are swinging for the fences in a way we've NEVER tried to do. I would say the Herman hire was an attempt at a hot name that was a cultural fit. At least they tried. Us? We go hire a coordinator from our biggest rival.

The boosters in Texas have a special affinity for the football program, and likely are spearheading this effort.

Our boosters aren't just happy running the Vols in the ground, they buy an NFL franchise and do the same thing.

The Browns are doing well this year, but I get what you are saying. Texas typically gets the coach they target who is already a proven winner while UT shops at the bargain bin. Hiring proven winners has not worked out well for Texas after Mack Brown yet. I do give kudos to the longhorns for showing Barnes the door.
 
#19
#19
kiffin was a bigger swing than strong imo. Big swing and a miss is still a strike

Texas just has bigger pockets than we ever will
Kiffin was cheap and brought his Hall-of-Famer daddy with him. As much as I like Kiffin, Hamilton was an idiot not to hire Patterson at the time. We wouldn't be having this conversation now.

I didn't say we should hire CUM...we would never do that. But someone who has outcoached Saban on a level playing field would be a refreshing change.
 
#21
#21
That's one thing I really don't like about the whole Freeze discussion. Everybody's like 'Oh, we gotta get him now or he'll be at Auburn, or SC, or Vandy, or wherever'. When you go out looking for a new car, it's best to find about 4 or 5 you like. That way, if one falls through, you've got others to fall back on and you don't get frantic and make yourself a bad deal. It's kind of the same with this whole coach search idea. If Freeze gets gone, don't worry, there'll be a brand new hot, can't miss item to replace him. Next year Kiffin's buyout will be less and he may have shown some real progress, the guy at Coastal Carolina may come available, Freeze may still be around. I wouldn't work myself into a frenzy over this stuff. There'll always be somebody out there to go after.
The reason I like Freeze as an (not the only one, mind you) answer is really pretty simple. He checks off multiple boxes in a way that few others do.

1) He has been an effective HC in the SEC.
2) He's an offensive mind.
3) He wants to be here (reportedly).
4) He's proven an ability to win at most any level.
5) He is not a "break-the-bank" kind of hire at this moment....but I believe he will be. Likely as soon as next year, when he has another year of success and others are looking.

All of these are likely reason the brain-trust on the Hill will choose to look elsewhere though.
 
#22
#22
kiffin was a bigger swing than strong imo. Big swing and a miss is still a strike

Texas just has bigger pockets than we ever will

It's also debatable as to whether or not Kiffin was a miss. Had the Southern Cal crap never happened -- that is, had Kiffin stayed for 4-5 years at Tennessee -- I think Tennessee turns in better recruiting and more explosive offenses that win more games. Assuming they don't get nailed by the NCAA I suppose, but. I suppose I view the hire as less a miss than I do the contract arrangements that allowed him and his staff to jump ship in the middle of the night to go to Southern Cal. One would think that playing Southern Cal highlight videos in the Tennessee facilities would have been a warning sign but ... oh well.
 
#23
#23
The reason I like Freeze as an (not the only one, mind you) answer is really pretty simple. He checks off multiple boxes in a way that few others do.

1) He has been an effective HC in the SEC.
2) He's an offensive mind.
3) He wants to be here (reportedly).
4) He's proven an ability to win at most any level.
5) He is not a "break-the-bank" kind of hire at this moment....but I believe he will be. Likely as soon as next year, when he has another year of success and others are looking.

All of these are likely reason the brain-trust on the Hill will choose to look elsewhere though.

I do like Freeze, but my concern is that the Hill will be scared off by the NCAA attention he will bring. If there is a recruiting violation and a likely severe punishment that follows, think of the hole UT football will be in. We’ll be talking fondly of the Pruitt years and JG after that.
 
#24
#24
I do like Freeze, but my concern is that the Hill will be scared off by the NCAA attention he will bring. If there is a recruiting violation and a likely severe punishment that follows, think of the hole UT football will be in. We’ll be talking fondly of the Pruitt years and JG after that.
I assure you, I will never talk fondly of the Pruitt years.

Let me give you another "what-if"....what if your concern never happens? It's just as likely.
 
#25
#25
I assure you, I will never talk fondly of the Pruitt years.

Let me give you another "what-if"....what if your concern never happens? It's just as likely.

Yeah, I took it too far to suggest we’d ever talk fondly of Pruitt.

I agree it’s probably more likely that Freeze stays away from recruiting violations because he knows the NCAA will be looking. My worry is what the Hill thinks would happen.

To answer your ‘what-if’, I think Freeze is a great recruiter, motivator and play caller. It wouldn’t take long to get UT in the SEC title game.
 
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