Tennessee vs UCLA Sunday November 30th Game Thread

[chuckiepoo]

And she is very thoughtful and reflective. I particularly liked how she said in a recent post-game interview that this team was a lot like one of her previous teams and she had gone back and looked at her notes on that team and this one is right at the same place. I suspect there is no poster here that could sit down and talk with Coach Kim for an hour and not walk away absolutely convinced she knows her stuff, see reality, and has a plan with a good chance of working.

Creating new paradigms is hard. Most management gurus recommend no more than 15-20 % change within organizations at a time. She’s taken a huge bite off of the sausage. I hope she gets it chewed and safely swallowed. I suspect BVS has settled in around here and many expect the worst.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

So much. Pretty sure he’s trolling but ffs shut up. Please don’t even pretend to act out right now.

I wonder if it’s even possible to give the kind of balls to the wall ‘effort’ being described. How many times in a season can you play like it’s the last min of a national championship game? Several hundred? A dozen or so times a game? It’s unrealistic both physically and mentally. You get 90 seconds to recover then go do it again. Doesn’t sound very enjoyable to me and ultimately not an effective use of the basketball talent.

Apparently her teams where she coached before she was hired were able to do it.

 

[Lucy]

Creating new paradigms is hard. Most management gurus recommend no more than 15-20 % change within organizations at a time. She’s taken a huge bite off of the sausage. I hope she gets it chewed and safely swallowed. I suspect BVS has settled in around here and many expect the worst.

It is a virulent bug!

 

[RetroVol]

The LVs two signature wins last season, Uconn and OSU were not about wearing them out but dialing back on the high press, the mass subbing and making clutch shots. CKC has the formula, she used it last season. It seems that she thought it was a concession to her "limited" line-up but it was actually good coaching.

Hmm... Let's think about this. Assuming what you say is true -- that we used a different "system" against UCONN and Ohio State, let's look at what happened before and between those games.

Beat Texas A&M by 13
Lost to Oklahoma by 1
Lost to LSU by 2
Beat Arkansas by 30
Beat MIss St by 13
Lost to Vandy by 1 (win but for slip by player receiving inbounds pass)
Lost to Texas by 4
Lost to SC by 7
Beat Missouri by 5
(Feb 6) Beat UConn by 4

After that, we beat Auburn (38), Ole Miss (9), and Alabama (8), and Florida (8), before losing to Kentucky by 24 (!) and Georgia (3). In SEC Tournament, beat Texas A&M again by 40, the lost to Vady by (8). Then in the NCAA we beat South Florida by 35, (March 23) Ohio State by 15, and lost to Texas by 8.

Are you really saying that Kim had an game plan she used against UCONN on Feb 6 and Ohio State on March 23, but then ditched it for almost six weeks, during which we went 6-3? Then she pulled it out again for Ohio State? Or were the Lady Vols playing the way you say they should when they lost to Kentucky, Georgia, Vandy, and then the final game against Texas again? Were we playing a different system, or just executing differently?

 

[RetroVol]

2. Can you think of a time where the LVs "wore out" a top 20 team or a solid SEC team? That is part of the whole cheetah myth that has no bearing on how games are actually played, More often than not, the LVs have looked worn down by the end of the games.

Thanks for making specific points! So much easier to dig in and think about stuff, even when we may disagree on the meaning of the data, if we are talking about specifics.

1/5/25 Oklohoma 87, UT 86. We lost the first 3 quarters by 6, 1, and 9, then won the 4th by 15.
1/9/25 LSU 89, UT 87. Lost the first quarter by 9, the outscored them by 2, 2, and 3. Maybe not wearing them out, but certainly cooled them off and no indication we were worn out.
1/23/25 Texas 80, UT 76, we won the 2nd quarter by 7 and the 4th by 3.

UCONN, we won the 2nd half by 6, but I'll skip that one since you say we played a different system.

LSU on 2/9 we won the second half by 1.

Ohio State in the Tournament we won the 2nd by 9, 3rd by 2, and 4th by 8.

On the whole, I think the data supports the superiority of UT last year late in the game against top teams to a reasonable degree, and pretty thoroughly undercuts any claims that it was the Lady Vols who were "worn out."

 

[VolBall09]

volnation is calm vs tennessee lady facebook about the lost.

I have never once wanted to be part of that community. Incredibly toxic.

 

[madtownvol]

Thanks for making specific points! So much easier to dig in and think about stuff, even when we may disagree on the meaning of the data, if we are talking about specifics.

1/5/25 Oklohoma 87, UT 86. We lost the first 3 quarters by 6, 1, and 9, then won the 4th by 15.
1/9/25 LSU 89, UT 87. Lost the first quarter by 9, the outscored them by 2, 2, and 3. Maybe not wearing them out, but certainly cooled them off and no indication we were worn out.
1/23/25 Texas 80, UT 76, we won the 2nd quarter by 7 and the 4th by 3.

UCONN, we won the 2nd half by 6, but I'll skip that one since you say we played a different system.

LSU on 2/9 we won the second half by 1.

Ohio State in the Tournament we won the 2nd by 9, 3rd by 2, and 4th by 8.

On the whole, I think the data supports the superiority of UT last year late in the game against top teams to a reasonable degree, and pretty thoroughly undercuts any claims that it was the Lady Vols who were "worn out."

Okay, so those were the LVs best 6 games (including Uconn) which led to a 2 and 4 record, which all things considered is not too bad (could have easily been 3-3 as they let the LSU game slip away).

And two of those games are consistent with the wear down theory, so I stand corrected.

But I said the LVs wore down in some games (not all games) and there we need to look at the other 6 losses, which including double digit losses to a GA and a KY (a 24 pt blowout) and two losses to Vandy, one which was fairly lopsided.

During that bad late SEC stretch, where the LVs dropped 3 out 4, CKC explicitly said her team was "worn down." So, this worn down theme is not some blasphemy I invented, CKC said it herself.

 

[southie]

Didn't get around to checking this until this morning -- while watching the UCLA game, it looked to me like they had a lot of linebackers on the court -- tall and solidly built. Well, it's true. Their shortest player is 5-10, and they only have 3 players shorter than 6-0 with 6 players in the 6-3 to 6-7 range. Oh, and they are good shooters. Compare this to the LV roster which is shorter (e.g. Robertson) and thinner (e.g. Spearman). Weights are generally not revealed for the women, but I'm betting UCLA outweighed the LVs by 10-15 pounds across the board. No wonder UCLA controlled the paint.

You know, I've been following women's college hoops for a few decades, and I'll never forget when a Long Beach State player used the term "corn-fed chicks" when referring to the Lady Vols roster back in like 1987.

49ers Taken Out of Offense, Tournament : CS Long Beach Women Lose to Tennessee, 74-64, in NCAA Semifinals

On the occasion of its first trip to the Final Four, the Cal State Long Beach women's basketball team shot 38.8%, was out-rebounded by seven and, in the biggest indignity of all, was forced into playing a half-court game.

www.latimes.com

Over the years, the Lady Vols have had plenty of really physical post players like Daedra Charles, Peggy Evans, Dana Johnson, Pashen Thompson, Tiffany Johnson, etc. to name a few. That isn't the case at the moment. There are several other teams though who do have those "corn-fed chicks" now. I do think there's a lot more athleticism from post players than there was back in the day, and quickness matters; but, it's also hard to keep a big post player out of the low block unless their strength can be matched by the defender.

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

You know, I've been following women's college hoops for a few decades, and I'll never forget when a Long Beach State player used the term "corn-fed chicks" when referring to the Lady Vols roster back in like 1987.

49ers Taken Out of Offense, Tournament : CS Long Beach Women Lose to Tennessee, 74-64, in NCAA Semifinals

On the occasion of its first trip to the Final Four, the Cal State Long Beach women's basketball team shot 38.8%, was out-rebounded by seven and, in the biggest indignity of all, was forced into playing a half-court game.

www.latimes.com

Over the years, the Lady Vols have had plenty of really physical post players like Daedra Charles, Peggy Evans, Dana Johnson, Pashen Thompson, Tiffany Johnson, etc. to name a few. That isn't the case at the moment. There are several other teams though who do have those "corn-fed chicks" now. I do think there's a lot more athleticism from post players than there was back in the day, and quickness matters; but, it's also hard to keep a big post player out of the low block unless their strength can be matched by the defender.

Part of not having physical posts is the philosophy of playing five outs and needing more guard like players. Thats fine til someone is putting BTA and taking our players down low and punishing them. Doesn’t have to be posts (they actually did a decent job on Lauren Betts) but other players did that and posted our players up. In the SEC we will see a lot of that.

 

[Rooster1]

Yep, that’s a normal transition. Got to believe in your skillet and start going for it though. Never bother Lil Bit at all. Played with the heart of giant in a little body and it showed lol.

More reason to recruit the cast iron types..

 

[Lucy]

I don’t care what anyone says, I’d take Dana Johnson anytime! No one ever moved her out of the way and she either got the rebound or an opponent lost an arm or both.
One of my all time favorites!