Tennessee vs UCLA Sunday November 30th Game Thread

[VOLINVONORE]

Why does it take a while to learn? Like what system are you all seeing that's so complex and intricate, that it takes months of summer work, and 2 months into the season to grasp?

When I look at the product on the court, its one on one play, while everyone else is standing around watching. The defense is just guarding 94 feet and running alongside a guard with a pulse, until they make a layup or pass it out to an open 3 point shooter. I really feel like I'm missing something that everyone else is seeing when it comes to this system, idk!

It is difficult to learn because it requires effort which is a change for new players coming into the system.

 

[Rooster1]

It is difficult to learn because it requires effort which is a change for new players coming into the system.

“— “I'm not good at coaching effort. I don't know that you can teach that to a player.”

Pat Summitt

 

[Orange Maniac]

We love to play fast, but UCLA made us over rev our engines. Everybody that touched the ball tried to win the game on their own. We would over penetrate and get stuck, jack up a long three quickly and dribbled the ball like a newborn giraffe trying to walk for the first time. Legs and arms going everywhere instead of being steady and under control. We need better passing drills or something in practice. The ball can be passed to the ankles, 5 ft over a head or 3 feet to the side. A nice crisp pass on target is rare in the half court. We pass better at speed and on break aways which is opposite what one would think. Still don't understand getting continually beat by the same player, over and over by just leaving her wide open time and again. This team has a lot of work to do to hang with the big girls. It's easy to beat up on cupcakes because the "might" have one good shooter/player. Let's hope it gets better and quickly.

 

[RetroVol]

“— “I'm not good at coaching effort. I don't know that you can teach that to a player.”

Pat Summitt

Wonder when the coaching staff will bring out the white board?

 

[River67]

Why does it take a while to learn? Like what system are you all seeing that's so complex and intricate, that it takes months of summer work, and 2 months into the season to grasp?

When I look at the product on the court, its one on one play, while everyone else is standing around watching. The defense is just guarding 94 feet and running alongside a guard with a pulse, until they make a layup or pass it out to an open 3 point shooter. I really feel like I'm missing something that everyone else is seeing when it comes to this system, idk!

I feel the same way, lol

 

[DarkPhoenix]

I feel the same way, lol

I’ve always felt that way.

 

[LasVegasBill23]

Everyone is talking about the system..... I am a skeptic particularly when it comes to competing against top teams .... and the ones that are well schooled and seasoned....

trying to think of top flight programs that have employed such a high rev, high substitution lineup.... thoight of Nolan Richardson's Arkansas "40 minutes of hell" back in 1994.... but even he didn't trade out his players 5 at a time

Agai, i will be interested in the long term success of this strategy employ.

 

[lvocd]

I have a question for the board because my memory is so spotty. Can anyone here remember a game Candace (the adult, not the LV player) attended that the Lady Vols actually won? I got to wondering about that earlier because it seems to me we always have a terrible game in front of her. Then I got to wondering if the players kinda lost focus about why they were in California as they were being entertained by a Lady Vol legend at her way cool house and all the distractions of that.

NOT that I think they shouldn't have gone to Candace's house, because the players work hard and I think it's a good thing when they get to rub elbows with famously successful LV sisters. I guess, though, I'm saying it's at least a possibility they were a bit overwhelmed and overstimulated before a big game like that.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

“— “I'm not good at coaching effort. I don't know that you can teach that to a player.”

Pat Summitt

You can let them ride the bench if they don’t play with effort. If they are competitors, they want to play and put forth effort. If they don’t, they can be replaced.

 

[glv98]

Regardless if he was joking or not, he shouldn't have said that publicly. It can create rumors and sow discontent amongst the locker room. Some people will take it as a joke and others will view it seriously, we don't need ambiguous comments like that, especially in the space of X (Twitter). We're already reeling from our non existent defense and chaotic offense on the court, cant have any more off court distractions this season.

So much. Pretty sure he’s trolling but ffs shut up. Please don’t even pretend to act out right now.

It is difficult to learn because it requires effort which is a change for new players coming into the system.

I wonder if it’s even possible to give the kind of balls to the wall ‘effort’ being described. How many times in a season can you play like it’s the last min of a national championship game? Several hundred? A dozen or so times a game? It’s unrealistic both physically and mentally. You get 90 seconds to recover then go do it again. Doesn’t sound very enjoyable to me and ultimately not an effective use of the basketball talent.

 

[RetroVol]

I wonder if it’s even possible to give the kind of balls to the wall ‘effort’ being described. How many times in a season can you play like it’s the last min of a national championship game? Several hundred? A dozen or so times a game? It’s unrealistic both physically and mentally. You get 90 seconds to recover then go do it again. Doesn’t sound very enjoyable to me and ultimately not an effective use of the basketball talent.

Seems to have worked for CKC for more than a decade. What has been done, can be done.

 

[RetroVol]

I guess, though, I'm saying it's at least a possibility they were a bit overwhelmed and overstimulated before a big game like that.

It's a possibility, but like you, I'm glad they got the opportunity. And think it was pretty classy of Candace.

 

[lvocd]

It's a possibility, but like you, I'm glad they got the opportunity. And think it was pretty classy of Candace.

Me too! Candace bleeds orange and gave so much to Tennessee, so she'll always have my heart.

 

[madtownvol]

So much. Pretty sure he’s trolling but ffs shut up. Please don’t even pretend to act out right now.

I wonder if it’s even possible to give the kind of balls to the wall ‘effort’ being described. How many times in a season can you play like it’s the last min of a national championship game? Several hundred? A dozen or so times a game? It’s unrealistic both physically and mentally. You get 90 seconds to recover then go do it again. Doesn’t sound very enjoyable to me and ultimately not an effective use of the basketball talent.

CKC's "system" is getting a huge pass because CKC is killing it in recruiting; a Danny White hire; good in press conferences and super cute.

But, we are seeing the same vulnerabilities as last season. Then the excuse was she did not have enough of "her" Cheetahs; now, it is her Cheetahs are too young but she has Coop, Latham, Boyd, plus two talented and experienced transfers (I will add that losing Ruby was a much bigger loss than the "our freshman are going to dominant everyone" posters were willing to acknowledge).

But, we have been through this before. No amount of effort can compensate for a defense which consistently over commits and, once broken by a good PG or long pass, leaves open players all over the floor (sometimes directly under the basket). Unless CKC can teach her players to be in two places at once, the "system" creates exploitable gaps. It is like a football team that tries to blitz on every play. You would get a few sacks but mostly you get toasted by quick hitting plays.

I am calling it here. The 90 second sub routine is NEVER going to work. There is nothing to "learn" except coping with randomness and chaos. It is a dumb system. Again, many NBA teams play with platoons but if is done in a structured fashion with a first team and second team units and some interchange between the two as the game goes on.

The whole thing we are "gonna get so many more shots than our opponents" has sort fallen apart. as it turns out, shockingly, that making shots is more important than taking shots.

It is all shooting oneself in the foot. This team could be much, much better right now, if just played hard nosed half court defense that did not leave players wide open.

The team needs to find a half court identity. This squad is not built to live and die by the three. Last years team actually fit that offensive scheme much better.

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

The sky is falling folks are the ones who were pissed when Kellie was fired. Don’t forget.

We lost to the #3 team on the road with 4 freshmen playing heavy minutes. Is it thrilling to lose? No.

Is it the end of our season? No.

Around this same time three years ago we were losing to MTSU.

I supported kellie because she is a LVFL but did i love her system and her inability to win big games. Nope.

I also think this system is easy to figure out and as talented as this team is on paper it’s not the right talent. We have to have shooters in this system to know if it even works at this level. What made it work last year was Tess, Jewel, and Samara was a much improved shooter so that helped.

Around this time we were losing to MTSU is correct but also remember last February we lost to a GA team that most likely cost us a chance at hosting and a team that was in the bottom of the league.

All this to say losing sucks any time of year

 

[VolBall09]

I supported kellie because she is a LVFL but did i love her system and her inability to win big games. Nope.

I also think this system is easy to figure out and as talented as this team is on paper it’s not the right talent. We have to have shooters in this system to know if it even works at this level. What made it work last year was Tess, Jewel, and Samara was a much improved shooter so that helped.

Around this time we were losing to MTSU is correct but also remember last February we lost to a GA team that most likely cost us a chance at hosting and a team that was in the bottom of the league.

All this to say losing sucks any time of year

I agree. I feel like Kim/her staff got a little caught up in recruiting the players everyone else was recruiting instead of recruiting the players right for her system.

We definitely need more shooting talent and quick guards if we’re gonna play like this. Yea you gotta have a couple bigs, but big guards don’t suit this style well.

 

[chuckiepoo]

I agree. I feel like Kim/her staff got a little caught up in recruiting the players everyone else was recruiting instead of recruiting the players right for her system.

We definitely need more shooting talent and quick guards if we’re gonna play like this. Yea you gotta have a couple bigs, but big guards don’t suit this style well.

Pat Bradley sez, “Moar shootahs!”

 

[GameTime]

Our young team got beat by a more disciplined, seasoned team....Their 5 played as one unit, while our 5 played mostly as 5 individuals...

In any event, on to the next game...

 

[1reVOLver]

while our 5 played mostly as 5 individuals...

while our 10 played mostly as 10 individuals

fify

 

[Orange Maniac]

I have my doubts about the 90 seconds substitution pattern. If I recall correctly, Pat looked at the game in 4 minute blocks. That makes sense to me. 90 seconds doesn’t let you get into a flow or get a feel for the game. When Kim’s system is clicking, it’s a lot of fun to watch. When it’s not working, it’s a nightmare and looks like the UCLA game did.

 

[RetroVol]

Clearly, Kim's system still has to prove itself. And, has been said above, that happens by winning, especially important games. Everything else is just noise.

That said, it's very human to notice, remember, and treat as important what we see as threatening to what we want. In our minds, the bad always outweighs the good. We'll even treat the ambiguous as bad because survival emphasized seeing threats more than opportunities.

But, there's a time when negativity bias is particularly pernicious: the early stages of a developmental effort. Whether it's starting a business, writing a book, or raising a child, over-emphasizing (which is the natural tendency for us all) kills growth. But it's pernicious, because it makes us look smart. Unlikeable, but smart. I could be a high-percentage restaurant reviewer even though I don't have a sensitive palate or any experience with running a restaurant. I would just need to go to every restaurant opening, write a scathing review citing whatever, and predict it's failure. And I'd be right a huge percentage of the time, because most restaurants fail. Same with coaches. Most new coaches fail to achieve what they were hired to do, and even those who do get criticized for not doing better (Rick Barnes).

The counter to negativity bias is appreciation. Appreciating strengths, looking for what's working and building on that, or, as one researcher called it, "the ability to see the mighty oak in the acorn." It's what the new and struggling, be that businesses, ideas, books, children, or basketball systems. I get that this is often a place to vent. But I suspect we are all putting too much weight on the negatives and failing to see the positives.

Go, Kim. Coach 'em. Help 'em grow, individually and as a team. Your style of play is fun and interesting to watch, and that's what I'm pulling for.

 

[glv98]

I agree. I feel like Kim/her staff got a little caught up in recruiting the players everyone else was recruiting instead of recruiting the players right for her system.

We definitely need more shooting talent and quick guards if we’re gonna play like this. Yea you gotta have a couple bigs, but big guards don’t suit this style well.

I give our coaches more credit, especially when it comes to recruiting. I don't think they were targeting the wrong players at all. They've said since last spring the most pressing need is for a shooter. Reasonable to believe they definitely went after players like Knepkins but just weren't able to land them. I think it was a matter of just getting who they could get and unfortunately that did not include a consistent knock down shooter.

 

[brittannica]

I give our coaches more credit, especially when it comes to recruiting. I don't think they were targeting the wrong players at all. They've said since last spring the most pressing need is for a shooter. Reasonable to believe they definitely went after players like Knepkins but just weren't able to land them. I think it was a matter of just getting who they could get and unfortunately that did not include a consistent knock down shooter.

I totally agree with this. I feel like we were tied to a number of successful three-point shooters. We just couldn't land one for whatever reason and seemingly settled for Nya (no shade to her but I think we'd all rather have Kneepkins).

 

[glv98]

I totally agree with this. I feel like we were tied to a number of successful three-point shooters. We just couldn't land one for whatever reason and seemingly settled for Nya (no shade to her but I think we'd all rather have Kneepkins).

A big reason for not landing them coud be that frequent subbing is especially disruptive to shooters. Many three point shooters depend a lot on rhythm. Jewell said a couple of times last year that it was a very big adjustment not to be in long enough to achieve rhythm. It's one more way the system giveth and the system taketh away

 

[brittannica]

I give our coaches more credit, especially when it comes to recruiting. I don't think they were targeting the wrong players at all. They've said since last spring the most pressing need is for a shooter. Reasonable to believe they definitely went after players like Knepkins but just weren't able to land them. I think it was a matter of just getting who they could get and unfortunately that did not include a consistent knock down shooter.

x. Duplicate post from switching between Wi-Fi.