Tennessee vs The Maxims vs Florida

#1

OneManGang

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#1
Tennessee vs The Maxims vs Florida

Elsewhere on this board there is a thread asking “Why do the Gators have our number?”

I've stated before but it bears repeating. Teams like Florida, Alabama and Georgia win big games because they believe they are going to win the given big game. The Vols are in that, “Gee, it would really be great to beat the Gators or Tide or Dawgs or whomever” category. Those teams come to the game with an attitude of, “We got this.”

The Vols used to have that swagger, that attitude, but no more. Hence winning big games used to be expected but now such victories are few and far between.

“But how,” you may ask, “do we get that back?”

There is only one way: The Vols have to develop confidence in themselves and go out there and actually win big games.

As we assess Saturday's tilt against the Gators we would do well to heed the words of the Ancient Philosopher: “The fight may not always go to the strongest, nor the race to the swiftest … but that's the way to bet.

And so it goes.

As the first half unfolded, your Fearless Scribe had a thought that Vol fans may, just may, have been getting a glimpse of what Tennessee could look like in a couple of years assuming the team continues to improve and really begins to learn HeadVol Heupel's system. That's a big assumption, but if true, the Vols could well be on the way to being one scary football team in a few years.

*********​

Marine radio post on Guadalcanal, 2030 Hours, 14 October 1942
The Marines on Guadalcanal were understandably nervous about ships approaching during the night. The night of 14 October 1942 was no different. Just two nights before there had been a bloody naval melee within sight of the Marine positions that cost the US Navy two cruisers sunk and three more heavily damaged along with several destroyers and ultimately cost the Japanese the battleship Hiei. Two American Admirals, Dan Callahan and Norman Scott, had been killed and Japanese Admiral Abe had been seriously wounded.

Then just last night a pair of Admiral Mikawa's heavy cruisers had battered Henderson Field with over 1,000 rounds of 8-inch high explosive shells and even more lighter rounds from their secondary batteries. So when a voice came over the radio asking for information about the tactical situation off the coast, the radiomen refused to comply. Finally, another voice came on, “Tell your Big Boss that Ching Lee is here and I need the latest information.” Lee and the “Big Boss” on Guadalcanal, Marine Major General Archer Vandergrift, were old friends and the radiomen soon passed on the unhappy tidings that there really wasn't much intel other than what was already known.

A distant relative of Robert E. Lee hissownself, Rear Admiral Willis A. Lee (USNA 1908) was one of the Navy's leading experts on battleship tactics and, more importantly, had been a key figure in the development of the SG surface search radar and taught his troops how to get the most out of the new technology. His last name sounding vaguely oriental earned him the nickname “Ching” while at the Academy in those very un-PC days. A native of Kentucky, Lee was also a very proficient marksman and that talent earned him a spot on the 1920 US Olympic marksmanship team which won nine gold medals.

14 October 1942 found Lee commanding Task Force 64 consisting of the battleships USS Washington (BB56) and South Dakota (BB57) along with the destroyers Walke (DD416), Benham (DD397), Gwinn (DD433) and Preston (DD379).

TF64 was the hole card. After the loss of the carrier Hornet (CV8) at the Battle of Santa Cruz where the carrier Enterprise (CV6) was damaged and the losses on 13 October, Lee's little fleet was the only major strike force available. Should anything happen to the two battlewagons, Enterprise with her forward elevator jammed up, would be the only major fleet unit left to oppose Admiral Kondo's Advance Force and keep his dreadnoughts from blasting Henderson Field into oblivion and landing massive reinforcements to the Japanese land forces rendering the Marine position on Guadalcanal untenable. The South Pacific Force commander, Admiral Bill Halsey, was going all in.

At the main Japanese base at Rabaul in the early hours of 14 October, Admiral Kondo was readying his response to the loss of Hiei. He decided to make a run that night with a task force centered on the Hiei's sister ship Kirishima. The Japanese were going out loaded for bear. Besides Kirishima, Kondo's fleet boasted two heavy cruisers, two light cruisers and nine destroyers. Following behind would be four transports carrying a regiment and tons of much-needed supplies for the soldiers of Dai Nippon on Guadalcanal.

To the casual observer it would seem the Japanese were seriously out-gunned in the battleship department, but one needs to remember that Kondo's ships outnumbered Lee's. None of the Japanese ships had surface-search radar but their crews had been trained in night combat and were quite proficient at it.

After nightfall, Lee's little fleet closed on Guadalcanal from the south west. By 2100 (9pm) he was passing by the northern tip of the island and made a turn to starboard to pass several miles north of Savo Island, a small volcanic island about 12 miles northwest of Cape Esperance, the northern tip of Guadalcanal. There were so many ships, Japanese, American and Australian, sunk in the waters around Savo that American Sailors referred to it as “Iron Bottom Sound.”

Kondo closed on Savo a few minutes later. He had split his force into three components: an outer screen of the light cruiser Sendai and three destroyers under Admiral Hashimoto, an inner screen with light cruiser Nagara and four destroyers under Admiral Kimura and finally the bombardment group commanded by Kondo himself in the heavy cruiser Takao, with Kirishima, the heavy cruiser Atago and two destroyers.

After another turn to starboard, Lee was passing east of Savo as Hashimoto was approaching from the northeast at 2200. Hashimoto, unaware of Lee's ships, split off two of his destroyers to sweep the area west of the island and see if he could find the Yankees a Japanese patrol plane had spotted that afternoon.

By 2300, Lee had turned due west toward Guadalcanal when the radar on Washington picked up Sendai about 9 miles distant. South Dakota soon had her and her escorts on radar as well and at 2317 both battlewagons opened fire.

Hashimoto must have thought a volcano had erupted as all fourteen 16-inchers opened up at him. Quickly Sendai and her two escorts turned hard back the way they had come, making smoke. He then turned back toward Savo. Meanwhile, the American battleships ceased fire as the destroyers in single file in front of them opened up on Hashimoto's detached pair coming around Savo from the northwest.

Following close behind Hashimoto's destroyers came Kimura's ships and behind him, Kondo's, all making flank speed. At this point the Japanese were on the east side of the strait while the Americans were headed on a reciprocal course on the Guadalcanal side. The American destroyers were in a column with Walke in the lead, then Benham, Gwinn and Preston. Preston was roughly 5,000 yards, or about three miles, ahead of the battleships.

By 2333, the American destroyers were exchanging fire with Kimura's ships when Murphy's Law came into effect.

South Dakota's electrical system had been bedeviled by sporadic failures due to damage inflicted at Santa Cruz. Now it picked this critical moment to completely fail. Out of control and blind as a bat, the battleship stumbled out of line TOWARD the Japanese.

Targeting the destroyers, Kimura's ships shot first, shot faster and shot more accurately. Preston died first under an avalanche of shells that wrecked her upper works and put huge holes in her hull. At 2336 she rolled over and sank taking 115 of her crew with her. The Japanese now sent a swarm of Long Lance torpedoes at the Americans. Six minutes later Walke, under a similar heavy fire took one of the “fish” which set off one of her forward magazines and blew the entire bow off. She sheared off to port and quickly went under. At 2338, another Long Lance found Benham and blew most of her bow off. She could still make about 5 knots and limped away to port only to sink the next day. Gwinn was riddled but avoided the torpedoes and limped off.

The American destroyers gained a bit of payback as they had blasted the Japanese destroyer Ayanami along with the secondary guns of the battleships. Ayanami succumbed around 2345.

SoDak's power was restored by 2336 and she began to head back toward Washington but then had to quickly turn away to dodge various burning and sinking destroyers. As she once again headed back toward the Japanese she was detected by Kimura's ships and then Kondo's.

South Dakota had again opened fire on Sendai which was astern of her. Her first salvo from her aft turret set the three scout planes on the fantail afire, Thirty seconds later, her second blew two of them overboard and alert damage-control people put out the fire on the third.

Every searchlight and gun the Japanese could bring to bear now targeted South Dakota. She soon found herself at the center of a hurricane of fire. She returned fire and her secondary batteries scored against the two Japanese heavy cruisers when Kirishima found the range - 5,000 yards. Fortunately, Kirishima's guns were pre-loaded with bombardment rounds with more in the shell hoists. Knowing it would require precious minutes to unload and reload with AP, Kirishima's captain chose to unload his main battery through the muzzles. South Dakota was hit some 27 times in just a few minutes with everything from 5” destroyer shells to the aforementioned 14-inch rounds. Her thick armor belt and turret armor saved her from critical damage, but her upper works were riddled with some 39 men killed and 60 wounded.

Lee had been watching all this on Washington's radar plot. In their zeal to hammer South Dakota Kimura and Kondo apparently forgot there was another American battleship out there.

Washington veered a bit to port to avoid the sinking destroyers, her crew tossing life rafts to the destroyermen bobbing in the water. Several voices implored the onrushing battleship, “G**dammit! Go get 'em!”

At the stroke of midnight the old Kentucky Rifleman had his clear shot at a range of 8500 yards. By 0007 it was over. Kirishima was a flaming and exploding wreck. Washington had fired 115 rounds. The Navy credited her with nine hits – pretty good shooting. However underwater investigations in the 1990s and research into Japanese archives indicate Kirishima was hit by up to TWENTY 16-inch rounds both above and below the waterline. She went dead in the water and sank at 0300.

Having now lost two battleships in three days, Kondo had had enough. He ordered his fleet to turn about and skeedaddle back to Rabaul. Washington shadowed them until it was clear they weren't coming back, then turned west to link up with Gwinn and South Dakota and escort them back to base.

Kondo ordered the four transports to beach themselves on Guadalcanal to hopefully land their men and supplies before the American planes could find them. They found them at dawn and blasted the transports into flaming wreckage.

The sinking of Kirishima marked the last major effort to reinforce the Japanese on Guadalcanal. During the first week of February, 1943, the Japanese destroyers did come down to Guadalcanal again, but this time to evacuate the 12,000 Japanese soldiers still alive on the island.

********​

So, how did the Vols do against The Maxims?

1. The team that makes the fewest mistakes will win.

In total the Vols played a pretty good game. However, a number of mental errors and mistakes mitigated their efforts. The penalty bug reared its ugly head again with ten flags resulting in 85 yards. And it wasn't just the number or the yardage but the timing of some of these that really hurt. Then you have the dropped passes. Alongside the drop on fourth down, there were others throughout the game.

2. Play for and make the breaks. When one comes your way … SCORE!

One of Tennessee's best chances came at the end of the second quarter when Alontae Taylor forced a fumble killing a Gator drive. Tennessee drove down to the Florida 30 whereupon the usually reliable McGrath sliced his field goal attempt wide right. It was that kind of night.

3. If at first the game – or the breaks – go against you, don't let up … PUT ON MORE STEAM!

One got the feeling that past UT teams would have folded once the Gators took their opening possession down the field rather efficiently for a touch down. The 2021 version did not.

4. Protect our kickers, our quarterback, our lead and our ballgame.

Hooker was beat on all night. The Gators got him for five sacks and he rushed for 35 yards. That leaves out the hurries and hits he took after getting rid of the ball. Allowing Florida to march down the field to score after the Vols went up 14-10 was a direct violation.

5. Ball! Oskie! Cover, block, cut and slice, pursue and gang tackle … THIS IS THE WINNING EDGE.

You were warned. In these very pages reference has been made to the fact that Tennessee's blocking is sub-par. The offensive line is sort of a collection of walking wounded thrust into action because there is literally no one else. The defense played hard all night but, as Pat Ryan pointed out, by the middle of the third quarter they were done, Again, the 30 deserters presence would have made a huge difference but, to use a famous movie quote, that is spilt milk under the bridge.

6. Press the kicking game. Here is where the breaks are made.

Tennessee's special teams, upon whom praise has been heaped of late, seemed to say”challenge accepted!” They managed to accrue 30 yards in penalties and an ejection ON ONE PUNT. Then they followed that up with the errant field goal attempt at the end of the first half.

7. Carry the fight to Florida and keep it there for sixty minutes,

The team played hard right up to that last Gator possession where HeadLizard Mullen seemed determined to prove he is the orifice we've come to know. The Vol defense seemed to be saying, “You're kidding!” The simple fact was that Florida was more talented at virtually every position, certainly deeper at every position, and displayed that “X” factor that was discussed at the beginning. They simply KNEW they were going to win.

While it almost always a mistake to draw generalities from one contest, IF the Vols can stay focused, and IF enough of our tatterdemalion corps can stay healthy, we may yet see unexpected success this season with positive omens for future campaigns.

Suggested Reading

Jack Coggins, The Campaign for Guadalcanal

Paul S. Dull, Battle History of the Imperial Japanese Navy

James Hornfischer, Neptune's Inferno

Samuel Eliot Morison, The Struggle for Guadalcanal, History of U.S. Naval Operations in World War II, Vol V

USS Washington opens fire on Kirishima. (US Navy)

uss washington firing.jpg
 
#2
#2
Tennessee vs The Maxims vs Florida

Elsewhere on this board there is a thread asking “Why do the Gators have our number?”

I've stated before but it bears repeating. Teams like Florida, Alabama and Georgia win big games because they believe they are going to win the given big game. The Vols are in that, “Gee, it would really be great to beat the Gators or Tide or Dawgs or whomever” category. Those teams come to the game with an attitude of, “We got this.”

The Vols used to have that swagger, that attitude, but no more. Hence winning big games used to be expected but now such victories are few and far between.

“But how,” you may ask, “do we get that back?”

There is only one way: The Vols have to develop confidence in themselves and go out there and actually win big games.

As we assess Saturday's tilt against the Gators we would do well to heed the words of the Ancient Philosopher: “The fight may not always go to the strongest, nor the race to the swiftest … but that's the way to bet.

And so it goes.

As the first half unfolded, your Fearless Scribe had a thought that Vol fans may, just may, have been getting a glimpse of what Tennessee could look like in a couple of years assuming the team continues to improve and really begins to learn HeadVol Heupel's system. That's a big assumption, but if true, the Vols could well be on the way to being one scary football team in a few years.

*********​

Marine radio post on Guadalcanal, 2030 Hours, 14 October 1942
The Marines on Guadalcanal were understandably nervous about ships approaching during the night. The night of 14 October 1942 was no different. Just two nights before there had been a bloody naval melee within sight of the Marine positions that cost the US Navy two cruisers sunk and three more heavily damaged along with several destroyers and ultimately cost the Japanese the battleship Hiei. Two American Admirals, Dan Callahan and Norman Scott, had been killed and Japanese Admiral Abe had been seriously wounded.

Then just last night a pair of Admiral Mikawa's heavy cruisers had battered Henderson Field with over 1,000 rounds of 8-inch high explosive shells and even more lighter rounds from their secondary batteries. So when a voice came over the radio asking for information about the tactical situation off the coast, the radiomen refused to comply. Finally, another voice came on, “Tell your Big Boss that Ching Lee is here and I need the latest information.” Lee and the “Big Boss” on Guadalcanal, Marine Major General Archer Vandergrift, were old friends and the radiomen soon passed on the unhappy tidings that there really wasn't much intel other than what was already known.

A distant relative of Robert E. Lee hissownself, Rear Admiral Willis A. Lee (USNA 1908) was one of the Navy's leading experts on battleship tactics and, more importantly, had been a key figure in the development of the SG surface search radar and taught his troops how to get the most out of the new technology. His last name sounding vaguely oriental earned him the nickname “Ching” while at the Academy in those very un-PC days. A native of Kentucky, Lee was also a very proficient marksman and that talent earned him a spot on the 1920 US Olympic marksmanship team which won nine gold medals.

14 October 1942 found Lee commanding Task Force 64 consisting of the battleships USS Washington (BB56) and South Dakota (BB57) along with the destroyers Walke (DD416), Benham (DD397), Gwinn (DD433) and Preston (DD379).

TF64 was the hole card. After the loss of the carrier Hornet (CV8) at the Battle of Santa Cruz where the carrier Enterprise (CV6) was damaged and the losses on 13 October, Lee's little fleet was the only major strike force available. Should anything happen to the two battlewagons, Enterprise with her forward elevator jammed up, would be the only major fleet unit left to oppose Admiral Kondo's Advance Force and keep his dreadnoughts from blasting Henderson Field into oblivion and landing massive reinforcements to the Japanese land forces rendering the Marine position on Guadalcanal untenable. The South Pacific Force commander, Admiral Bill Halsey, was going all in.

At the main Japanese base at Rabaul in the early hours of 14 October, Admiral Kondo was readying his response to the loss of Hiei. He decided to make a run that night with a task force centered on the Hiei's sister ship Kirishima. The Japanese were going out loaded for bear. Besides Kirishima, Kondo's fleet boasted two heavy cruisers, two light cruisers and nine destroyers. Following behind would be four transports carrying a regiment and tons of much-needed supplies for the soldiers of Dai Nippon on Guadalcanal.

To the casual observer it would seem the Japanese were seriously out-gunned in the battleship department, but one needs to remember that Kondo's ships outnumbered Lee's. None of the Japanese ships had surface-search radar but their crews had been trained in night combat and were quite proficient at it.

After nightfall, Lee's little fleet closed on Guadalcanal from the south west. By 2100 (9pm) he was passing by the northern tip of the island and made a turn to starboard to pass several miles north of Savo Island, a small volcanic island about 12 miles northwest of Cape Esperance, the northern tip of Guadalcanal. There were so many ships, Japanese, American and Australian, sunk in the waters around Savo that American Sailors referred to it as “Iron Bottom Sound.”

Kondo closed on Savo a few minutes later. He had split his force into three components: an outer screen of the light cruiser Sendai and three destroyers under Admiral Hashimoto, an inner screen with light cruiser Nagara and four destroyers under Admiral Kimura and finally the bombardment group commanded by Kondo himself in the heavy cruiser Takao, with Kirishima, the heavy cruiser Atago and two destroyers.

After another turn to starboard, Lee was passing east of Savo as Hashimoto was approaching from the northeast at 2200. Hashimoto, unaware of Lee's ships, split off two of his destroyers to sweep the area west of the island and see if he could find the Yankees a Japanese patrol plane had spotted that afternoon.

By 2300, Lee had turned due west toward Guadalcanal when the radar on Washington picked up Sendai about 9 miles distant. South Dakota soon had her and her escorts on radar as well and at 2317 both battlewagons opened fire.

Hashimoto must have thought a volcano had erupted as all fourteen 16-inchers opened up at him. Quickly Sendai and her two escorts turned hard back the way they had come, making smoke. He then turned back toward Savo. Meanwhile, the American battleships ceased fire as the destroyers in single file in front of them opened up on Hashimoto's detached pair coming around Savo from the northwest.

Following close behind Hashimoto's destroyers came Kimura's ships and behind him, Kondo's, all making flank speed. At this point the Japanese were on the east side of the strait while the Americans were headed on a reciprocal course on the Guadalcanal side. The American destroyers were in a column with Walke in the lead, then Benham, Gwinn and Preston. Preston was roughly 5,000 yards, or about three miles, ahead of the battleships.

By 2333, the American destroyers were exchanging fire with Kimura's ships when Murphy's Law came into effect.

South Dakota's electrical system had been bedeviled by sporadic failures due to damage inflicted at Santa Cruz. Now it picked this critical moment to completely fail. Out of control and blind as a bat, the battleship stumbled out of line TOWARD the Japanese.

Targeting the destroyers, Kimura's ships shot first, shot faster and shot more accurately. Preston died first under an avalanche of shells that wrecked her upper works and put huge holes in her hull. At 2336 she rolled over and sank taking 115 of her crew with her. The Japanese now sent a swarm of Long Lance torpedoes at the Americans. Six minutes later Walke, under a similar heavy fire took one of the “fish” which set off one of her forward magazines and blew the entire bow off. She sheared off to port and quickly went under. At 2338, another Long Lance found Benham and blew most of her bow off. She could still make about 5 knots and limped away to port only to sink the next day. Gwinn was riddled but avoided the torpedoes and limped off.

The American destroyers gained a bit of payback as they had blasted the Japanese destroyer Ayanami along with the secondary guns of the battleships. Ayanami succumbed around 2345.

SoDak's power was restored by 2336 and she began to head back toward Washington but then had to quickly turn away to dodge various burning and sinking destroyers. As she once again headed back toward the Japanese she was detected by Kimura's ships and then Kondo's.

South Dakota had again opened fire on Sendai which was astern of her. Her first salvo from her aft turret set the three scout planes on the fantail afire, Thirty seconds later, her second blew two of them overboard and alert damage-control people put out the fire on the third.

Every searchlight and gun the Japanese could bring to bear now targeted South Dakota. She soon found herself at the center of a hurricane of fire. She returned fire and her secondary batteries scored against the two Japanese heavy cruisers when Kirishima found the range - 5,000 yards. Fortunately, Kirishima's guns were pre-loaded with bombardment rounds with more in the shell hoists. Knowing it would require precious minutes to unload and reload with AP, Kirishima's captain chose to unload his main battery through the muzzles. South Dakota was hit some 27 times in just a few minutes with everything from 5” destroyer shells to the aforementioned 14-inch rounds. Her thick armor belt and turret armor saved her from critical damage, but her upper works were riddled with some 39 men killed and 60 wounded.

Lee had been watching all this on Washington's radar plot. In their zeal to hammer South Dakota Kimura and Kondo apparently forgot there was another American battleship out there.

Washington veered a bit to port to avoid the sinking destroyers, her crew tossing life rafts to the destroyermen bobbing in the water. Several voices implored the onrushing battleship, “G**dammit! Go get 'em!”

At the stroke of midnight the old Kentucky Rifleman had his clear shot at a range of 8500 yards. By 0007 it was over. Kirishima was a flaming and exploding wreck. Washington had fired 115 rounds. The Navy credited her with nine hits – pretty good shooting. However underwater investigations in the 1990s and research into Japanese archives indicate Kirishima was hit by up to TWENTY 16-inch rounds both above and below the waterline. She went dead in the water and sank at 0300.

Having now lost two battleships in three days, Kondo had had enough. He ordered his fleet to turn about and skeedaddle back to Rabaul. Washington shadowed them until it was clear they weren't coming back, then turned west to link up with Gwinn and South Dakota and escort them back to base.

Kondo ordered the four transports to beach themselves on Guadalcanal to hopefully land their men and supplies before the American planes could find them. They found them at dawn and blasted the transports into flaming wreckage.

The sinking of Kirishima marked the last major effort to reinforce the Japanese on Guadalcanal. During the first week of February, 1943, the Japanese destroyers did come down to Guadalcanal again, but this time to evacuate the 12,000 Japanese soldiers still alive on the island.

********​

So, how did the Vols do against The Maxims?

1. The team that makes the fewest mistakes will win.

In total the Vols played a pretty good game. However, a number of mental errors and mistakes mitigated their efforts. The penalty bug reared its ugly head again with ten flags resulting in 85 yards. And it wasn't just the number or the yardage but the timing of some of these that really hurt. Then you have the dropped passes. Alongside the drop on fourth down, there were others throughout the game.

2. Play for and make the breaks. When one comes your way … SCORE!

One of Tennessee's best chances came at the end of the second quarter when Alontae Taylor forced a fumble killing a Gator drive. Tennessee drove down to the Florida 30 whereupon the usually reliable McGrath sliced his field goal attempt wide right. It was that kind of night.

3. If at first the game – or the breaks – go against you, don't let up … PUT ON MORE STEAM!

One got the feeling that past UT teams would have folded once the Gators took their opening possession down the field rather efficiently for a touch down. The 2021 version did not.

4. Protect our kickers, our quarterback, our lead and our ballgame.

Hooker was beat on all night. The Gators got him for five sacks and he rushed for 35 yards. That leaves out the hurries and hits he took after getting rid of the ball. Allowing Florida to march down the field to score after the Vols went up 14-10 was a direct violation.

5. Ball! Oskie! Cover, block, cut and slice, pursue and gang tackle … THIS IS THE WINNING EDGE.

You were warned. In these very pages reference has been made to the fact that Tennessee's blocking is sub-par. The offensive line is sort of a collection of walking wounded thrust into action because there is literally no one else. The defense played hard all night but, as Pat Ryan pointed out, by the middle of the third quarter they were done, Again, the 30 deserters presence would have made a huge difference but, to use a famous movie quote, that is spilt milk under the bridge.

6. Press the kicking game. Here is where the breaks are made.

Tennessee's special teams, upon whom praise has been heaped of late, seemed to say”challenge accepted!” They managed to accrue 30 yards in penalties and an ejection ON ONE PUNT. Then they followed that up with the errant field goal attempt at the end of the first half.

7. Carry the fight to Florida and keep it there for sixty minutes,

The team played hard right up to that last Gator possession where HeadLizard Mullen seemed determined to prove he is the orifice we've come to know. The Vol defense seemed to be saying, “You're kidding!” The simple fact was that Florida was more talented at virtually every position, certainly deeper at every position, and displayed that “X” factor that was discussed at the beginning. They simply KNEW they were going to win.

While it almost always a mistake to draw generalities from one contest, IF the Vols can stay focused, and IF enough of our tatterdemalion corps can stay healthy, we may yet see unexpected success this season with positive omens for future campaigns.

Suggested Reading

Jack Coggins, The Campaign for Guadalcanal

Paul S. Dull, Battle History of the Imperial Japanese Navy

James Hornfischer, Neptune's Inferno

Samuel Eliot Morison, The Struggle for Guadalcanal, History of U.S. Naval Operations in World War II, Vol V

USS Washington opens fire on Kirishima. (US Navy)

View attachment 397515

That was fantastic reading, yes, I read every word. Thank you. We will never understand what our people in the military, in wars, went through.

Looks like our team better do better on the maxims. GO VOLS!

USA USA USA!!!
 
#8
#8
As usual - most excellent reading.

I stated last week that the Army with the bigger battalion usually wins - I reiterate that this week in the fact that Florida still has the bigger battalion in not only numbers but depth. I firmly believe we will catch up to them soon.

In terms of my favorite Maxim, number 7; This team on Saturday evening in hostile territory did not go softly into the night as the final score indicates, but rather weeping and gnashing and fighting for every last minute. To Headman Heupel, I say THANK YOU.
 
#9
#9
1632758254801-gif.397620
Bob, those two men each have the other's son. Check out their faces. :)
 
#11
#11
Fortunately, Kirishima's guns were pre-loaded with bombardment rounds with more in the shell hoists. Knowing it would require precious minutes to unload and reload with AP,
Thank you as always OMG.

Does AP mean Armor Penetrating? If not, what does it mean and what's the difference?
 
#12
#12
Thank you as always OMG.

Does AP mean Armor Penetrating? If not, what does it mean and what's the difference?

Yes it does.

(OMG rubs hands together and laughs maniacally)

For you history geeks and Navy battleship wonks (guilty as charged) out there, some more details:

USS Washington at New York Harbor, 1942 (US NAVY)

uss washington - 1942.jpg

USS Washington (BB-56) was commissioned in 1941 as the second ship of the North Carolina-class. She was 729 feet long and displaced 44,000 tons loaded for battle. She had a top speed of 28 knots, however vibration problems usually kept that down. Her crew was 99 officers and 2,035 enlisted. She carried nine 16-inch/45 caliber Mark 6 guns in three turrets and 20 5-inch/38 caliber Mark 12 guns in 10 turrets. (One caliber equals the bore diameter, ergo the Mark 6 guns were 16x45 inches long which is 720 inches or sixty feet.) There were numerous 20mm and 40mm anti-aircraft guns in various numbers that went up during the war. The main battery guns fired the Mark 8 armor piercing round which weighed in at a whopping 2700 lbs with a 40 lb bursting charge and could penetrate two feet of steel armor at 9 miles. For bombardment work she carried the Mark 13 or Mark 16 HC (High Capacity) rounds that weighed in at 1900 lbs with a 153 lb bursting charge.

USS South Dakota (BB-57) 1942. Note the single funnel and the four 5"/38 turrets. (US NAVY)

USS South Dakota 2.jpg

South Dakota (BB-57) was the lead ship of her class and was commissioned in 1942. A more compact design, she was 680 feet long but with the same displacement as the North Carolinas. She mounted the same main battery but had only 16 5-inch guns losing two turrets to her having been designed as a fleet flagship and needing more space for the admiral's ego. On this night, though, the SoDak had only seven of her guns available as two had been damaged by a Japanese bomb during the Battle of Santa Cruz. Even with her reduced main battery, though, she was a formidable opponent.

IJNS Kirishima (US NAVY)
ijns kirishima.jpg

Kirishima had been commissioned in 1915 as a battlecruiser, part of the four-ship Kongo-class, but she and her sisters were rebuilt in the 1930s as a fast battleships with additional armor but maintaining their speed of 30 knots. She was 728 feet long and displaced 36,000 tons fully loaded. She boasted a main battery of eight 14-inch/45 caliber guns in four turrets with a secondary battery of fourteen 6”/50 and eight 5” guns.

The “Long Lance”:

The Japanese Type 93 24" torpedo (US NAVY
Type93torpedo.jpg

With the exception of Kirishima every ship in Kondo's fleet was carrying the deadly Type 93 torpedo. The Type 93 was, simply put, a ship killer. It was 24” in diameter, nearly thirty feet long and weighed in at a whopping three tons. Its most fearsome aspect was that it carried an 1100 lb warhead and had a maximum range of 40,000 yards (22 miles), out-ranging most battleship guns. In combat, these “Long Lances” could and did blow the entire bow off a heavy cruiser or blow a destroyer in half with one hit. By comparison, the US destroyers carried the Mark XV, a 21” fish with a 600 lb warhead and a max range of about 14,000 yards. US Navy historian Adm. Samuel Eliot Morison coined the nickname “Long Lance” postwar. Due to the inherent complexity and vagaries of WWII torpedoes and faulty doctrine the Type 93s were not as effective as they could have been (!). However, after seeing the effects of those that did hit, American sailors were understandably frightened by the things. Note that of roughly 25 or so Type 93s launched during the above battle, only two actually hit. Two more blew up in Washington's wake as the Japanese withdrew, scaring the crap out of all hands.

Museum ships and exhibits:

Neither Washington nor South Dakota were preserved and met their respective ends in the breaker's yard. The stumps of three of South Dakota's 16-inchers along with various other bits and pieces are preserved in a memorial in Sioux Falls.

Washington's sister ship North Carolina (BB-55) is preserved as a memorial in Wilmington, NC. She is in virtually the same set-up as Washington was that night off Guadalcanal only with lots more anti-aircraft guns.

South Dakota has two of her near sisters preserved as memorials. “Near sisters” means they have their full complement of 10x5” gun turrets. Massachusetts (BB-59) can be found in “Battleship Cove” at Fall River, Mass. and USS Alabama is preserved at Mobile.

Vice-Admiral Nobutake Kondo (US NAVY)
adm kondo.jpg

Vice Admiral Nobutake Kondo was removed from command after the November defeats off Guadalcanal by Admiral Yamamoto and kicked upstairs to be Deputy Commander of the Combined Fleet. He was appointed to the Supreme War Council in May, 1945. After the war he was placed on the Naval Reserve list and remained there in retirement until his death in 1953.

Vice Admiral Willis A. Lee on board USS South Dakota in 1945 (US NAVY)

adm willis a lee.jpg


Vice Admiral Willis A. Lee died of a heart attack while riding in a launch to his flagship USS Wisconsin (BB-64) in Casco Harbor, Maine, on 25 August 1945, he was 57 years old. After Guadalcanal he went on to be commander of Task Force 34. Task Force 34 was made up of the fast battleships assigned to the carrier task forces (Task Force 58 when Spruance was in command and Task Force 38 with Halsey). Task Force 34 formed three times during the war, once in the van of Task Force 38 at the Battle of Leyte Gulf, then off Okinawa when the Japanese super battleship Yamato sortied on her one way voyage and finally to carry out bombardment missions against Japan proper later in 1945. He is buried at Arlington.
 
Last edited:
#14
#14
Yes it does.

(OMG rubs hands together and laughs maniacally)

For you history geeks and Navy battleship wonks (guilty as charged) out there, some more details:

USS Washington at New York Harbor, 1942 (US NAVY)

View attachment 397820

USS Washington (BB-56) was commissioned in 1941 as the second ship of the North Carolina-class. She was 729 feet long and displaced 44,000 tons loaded for battle. She had a top speed of 28 knots, however vibration problems usually kept that down. Her crew was 99 officers and 2,035 enlisted. She carried nine 16-inch/45 caliber Mark 6 guns in three turrets and 20 5-inch/38 caliber Mark 12 guns in 10 turrets. (One caliber equals the bore diameter, ergo the Mark 6 guns were 16x45 inches long which is 720 inches or sixty feet.) There were numerous 20mm and 40mm anti-aircraft guns in various numbers that went up during the war. The main battery guns fired the Mark 8 armor piercing round which weighed in at a whopping 2700 lbs with a 40 lb bursting charge and could penetrate two feet of steel armor at 9 miles. For bombardment work she carried the Mark 13 or Mark 16 HC (High Capacity) rounds that weighed in at 1900 lbs with a 153 lb bursting charge.

USS South Dakota (BB-57) 1942. Note the single funnel and the four 5"/38 turrets. (US NAVY)

View attachment 397827

South Dakota (BB-57) was the lead ship of her class and was commissioned in 1942. A more compact design, she was 680 feet long but with the same displacement as the North Carolinas. She mounted the same main battery but had only 16 5-inch guns losing two turrets to her having been designed as a fleet flagship and needing more space for the admiral's ego. On this night, though, the SoDak had only seven of her guns available as two had been damaged by a Japanese bomb during the Battle of Santa Cruz. Even with her reduced main battery, though, she was a formidable opponent.

IJNS Kirishima (US NAVY)
View attachment 397823

Kirishima had been commissioned in 1915 as a battlecruiser, part of the four-ship Kongo-class, but she and her sisters were rebuilt in the 1930s as a fast battleships with additional armor but maintaining their speed of 30 knots. She was 728 feet long and displaced 36,000 tons fully loaded. She boasted a main battery of eight 14-inch/45 caliber guns in four turrets with a secondary battery of fourteen 6”/50 and eight 5” guns.

The “Long Lance”:

The Japanese Type 93 24" torpedo (US NAVY
View attachment 397824

With the exception of Kirishima every ship in Kondo's fleet was carrying the deadly Type 93 torpedo. The Type 93 was, simply put, a ship killer. It was 24” in diameter, nearly thirty feet long and weighed in at a whopping three tons. Its most fearsome aspect was that it carried an 1100 lb warhead and had a maximum range of 40,000 yards (22 miles), out-ranging most battleship guns. In combat, these “Long Lances” could and did blow the entire bow off a heavy cruiser or blow a destroyer in half with one hit. By comparison, the US destroyers carried the Mark XV, a 21” fish with a 600 lb warhead and a max range of about 14,000 yards. US Navy historian Adm. Samuel Eliot Morison coined the nickname “Long Lance” postwar. Due to the inherent complexity and vagaries of WWII torpedoes and faulty doctrine the Type 93s were not as effective as they could have been (!). However, after seeing the effects of those that did hit, American sailors were understandably frightened by the things. Note that of roughly 25 or so Type 93s launched during the above battle, only two actually hit. Two more blew up in Washington's wake as the Japanese withdrew, scaring the crap out of all hands.

Museum ships and exhibits:

Neither Washington nor South Dakota were preserved and met their respective ends in the breaker's yard. The stumps of three of South Dakota's 16-inchers along with various other bits and pieces are preserved in a memorial in Sioux Falls.

Washington's sister ship North Carolina (BB-55) is preserved as a memorial in Wilmington, NC. She is in virtually the same set-up as Washington was that night off Guadalcanal only with lots more anti-aircraft guns.

South Dakota has two of her near sisters preserved as memorials. “Near sisters” means they have their full complement of 10x5” gun turrets. Massachusetts (BB-59) can be found in “Battleship Cove” at Fall River, Mass. and USS Alabama is preserved at Mobile.

Vice-Admiral Nobutake Kondo (US NAVY)
View attachment 397825

Vice Admiral Nobutake Kondo was removed from command after the November defeats off Guadalcanal by Admiral Yamamoto and kicked upstairs to be Deputy Commander of the Combined Fleet. He was appointed to the Supreme War Council in May, 1945. After the war he was placed on the Naval Reserve list and remained there in retirement until his death in 1953.

Vice Admiral Willis A. Lee on board USS South Dakota in 1945 (US NAVY)

View attachment 397826


Vice Admiral Willis A. Lee died of a heart attack while riding in a launch to his flagship USS Wisconsin (BB-64) in Casco Harbor, Maine, on 25 August 1945, he was 57 years old. After Guadalcanal he went on to be commander of Task Force 34. Task Force 34 was made up of the fast battleships assigned to the carrier task forces (Task Force 58 when Spruance was in command and Task Force 38 with Halsey). Task Force 34 formed three times during the war, once in the van of Task Force 38 at the Battle of Leyte Gulf, then off Okinawa when the Japanese super battleship Yamato sortied on her one way voyage and finally to carry out bombardment missions against Japan proper later in 1945. He is buried at Arlington.


Lee won gold in the Olympics, and also commanded destroyers in World War I. Only 57 when he died of a heart attack. What a life!


Awards and decorations

1st
Row
Navy CrossNavy Distinguished Service Medal
with one 5⁄16" Gold Star2nd
Row
Legion of MeritMexican Service MedalWorld War I Victory Medal
with "Destroyer" Clasp3rd
Row
American Defense Service MedalAmerican Campaign MedalAsiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal
with five 3/16 inch battle stars4th
Row
World War II Victory MedalGrand Cordon of the
Order of the Cloud and Banner

(Nationalist China)Philippine Liberation Medal
with two stars
(Republic of the Philippines)


Lee, Willis Augustus, Jr. (1888-1945)


U.S. Naval Historical Center Photo #80-G-322412
"Ching" Lee was the premier battleship admiral of the U.S. Navy in the Pacific War. Born in Kentucky and a 1908 graduate of the Naval Academy, he participated in the Vera Cruz operation and commanded destroyers in World War I. Between the wars he graduated from the Naval War College (1929) and held a wide variety of command and staffassignments, including serving as senior member of the Anti-Aircraft Defense Board that recommended adoption of the Oerlikon and Bofors guns.
The outbreak of war found Lee serving as director of fleet training. In August 1942 he took command of the fast battleships in the South Pacific (Battleship Division 6), a post he held until nearly the end of the war. He was an expert in radar-directed gunnery and developed the Navy's doctrine for cooperation between fast battleships and carriers. He was present at the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal (at which he was the victorious commander in the second round), the Battle of the Philippines Sea, and Leyte Gulf and saw service off Okinawa. He died of a heart attack while commanding Task Force 69, a research organization in the Atlantic formed to find ways to deal with kamikaze attack.
Lee, who was not of Chinese ancestry, was nicknamed "Ching Chong China" by his Academy classmates because he had thoroughly enjoyed a posting to China early in his career (1910-1913), and possibly also because his features looked slightly Oriental. His nickname became a sort of code signal at one point during the Guadalcanal campaign, establishing Lee's bona fides when it became necessary to send clear voice transmissions:
This is Ching Chong China Lee. Refer your big boss about Ching Lee. Call off your boys!​
Lee wore wire-rimmed glasses and had the appearance of a quiet, scholarly man. However, he was a crack shot with a rifle, killing three snipers during the 1914 Vera Cruz expedition and sharing seven Olympic team medals in marksmanship during the 1920s, five of them gold. He was also a highly intelligent and innovative commander with a dry sense of humor. He accepted the displacement of the battleship by the carrier as queen of the fleet with better grace than most surface admirals. However, he expressed the fear that constant carrier escort duty had left his battleships poorly trained for a night surface engagement, which may have influenced some important tactical decisions by his superiors, such as Spruance and Mitscher (Tuohy 2006):
MITSCHER TO LEE: Do you seek night engagement? It may be we can make air contact late this afternoon and attack tonight. Otherwise we should retire eastward tonight.​
LEE TO MITSCHER: Do not, repeat, not believe we should seek night engagement. Possible advantages of radar more than offset by difficulties in communications and lack of training in fleet tactics at night.​
Lee attempted without success to get Halsey to let him cover San Bernardino Strait during the Battle of Leyte Gulf. Lee's staff gunnery offer later recalled (Tuohy 2006):
We told Admiral Lee to tell Halsey to leave something out there watching the strait, because they were bound to come out and everyone seemed to know that. But the reaction was, if you tell Halsey to do something, that's the one thing he won't do.... In my opinion it was the greatest tactical blunder of the war.​
Service record

1888-5-11

Born at Natlee, Kentucky
1908
Midshipman
Graduates from Naval Academy
1908-10

BB Idaho
1909-5
Ensign
Navy Rifle Team
1909-11-15

CL New Orleans
1910-5

PG Helena
1913-1

Navy Rifle Team
1913-7

BB Idaho
1913-12

BB New Hampshire
1915-12

Inspector of ordnance, Union Tool Company, Chicago
1918-11

DD O'Brien
1918-12

DD Lea
1919-6

Navy Rifle Team1919-9

Executive Officer AS Bushnell
1920

U.S. Rifle Team, Olympic Games
1920-9

DD Fairfax
1921-6

DD William B. Preston
1924-11

New York Navy Yard
1926-11

AG Antares
1928-11

Commander, DD Lardner
1928

Naval War College
1929-6

Inspector of ordnance, Baldwin, Louisiana
1930

Division of Fleet Training
1931

BB Pennsylvania
1933-6
Captain
Head, Gunnery Section, Division of Fleet Training
1935

Head, Tactical Section, Division of Fleet Training
1936

Commander, CL Concord
1938-7

Staff, Cruisers, Battle Force
1938-12

Chief of staff, Cruisers, Battle Force
1939-6

Assistant Director, Division of Fleet Training
1941-1

Director, Division of Fleet Training
1942-2

Assistant chief of staff, U.S. Fleet
1942-3-27
Rear admiral
Commander, Battleship Division 6
1943-4-16
Vice admiralCommander, Battleships, Pacific Fleet
1944-12-15

Commander, Battleship Squadron 2
1945-6-16

Assistant Chief of Staff for Readiness
1945-8-25

Dies in the line of duty


Photo Gallery

U.S. Navy

NARA

U.S. Navy
 
Last edited:
#18
#18
Lee won gold in the Olympics, and also commanded destroyers in World War I. Only 57 when he died of a heart attack. What a life!


Awards and decorations

1st
Row
Navy CrossNavy Distinguished Service Medal
with one 5⁄16" Gold Star2nd
Row
Legion of MeritMexican Service MedalWorld War I Victory Medal
with "Destroyer" Clasp3rd
Row
American Defense Service MedalAmerican Campaign MedalAsiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal
with five 3/16 inch battle stars4th
Row
World War II Victory MedalGrand Cordon of the
Order of the Cloud and Banner

(Nationalist China)Philippine Liberation Medal
with two stars
(Republic of the Philippines)


Lee, Willis Augustus, Jr. (1888-1945)


U.S. Naval Historical Center Photo #80-G-322412
"Ching" Lee was the premier battleship admiral of the U.S. Navy in the Pacific War. Born in Kentucky and a 1908 graduate of the Naval Academy, he participated in the Vera Cruz operation and commanded destroyers in World War I. Between the wars he graduated from the Naval War College (1929) and held a wide variety of command and staffassignments, including serving as senior member of the Anti-Aircraft Defense Board that recommended adoption of the Oerlikon and Bofors guns.
The outbreak of war found Lee serving as director of fleet training. In August 1942 he took command of the fast battleships in the South Pacific (Battleship Division 6), a post he held until nearly the end of the war. He was an expert in radar-directed gunnery and developed the Navy's doctrine for cooperation between fast battleships and carriers. He was present at the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal (at which he was the victorious commander in the second round), the Battle of the Philippines Sea, and Leyte Gulf and saw service off Okinawa. He died of a heart attack while commanding Task Force 69, a research organization in the Atlantic formed to find ways to deal with kamikaze attack.
Lee, who was not of Chinese ancestry, was nicknamed "Ching Chong China" by his Academy classmates because he had thoroughly enjoyed a posting to China early in his career (1910-1913), and possibly also because his features looked slightly Oriental. His nickname became a sort of code signal at one point during the Guadalcanal campaign, establishing Lee's bona fides when it became necessary to send clear voice transmissions:
This is Ching Chong China Lee. Refer your big boss about Ching Lee. Call off your boys!​
Lee wore wire-rimmed glasses and had the appearance of a quiet, scholarly man. However, he was a crack shot with a rifle, killing three snipers during the 1914 Vera Cruz expedition and sharing seven Olympic team medals in marksmanship during the 1920s, five of them gold. He was also a highly intelligent and innovative commander with a dry sense of humor. He accepted the displacement of the battleship by the carrier as queen of the fleet with better grace than most surface admirals. However, he expressed the fear that constant carrier escort duty had left his battleships poorly trained for a night surface engagement, which may have influenced some important tactical decisions by his superiors, such as Spruance and Mitscher (Tuohy 2006):
MITSCHER TO LEE: Do you seek night engagement? It may be we can make air contact late this afternoon and attack tonight. Otherwise we should retire eastward tonight.​
LEE TO MITSCHER: Do not, repeat, not believe we should seek night engagement. Possible advantages of radar more than offset by difficulties in communications and lack of training in fleet tactics at night.​
Lee attempted without success to get Halsey to let him cover San Bernardino Strait during the Battle of Leyte Gulf. Lee's staff gunnery offer later recalled (Tuohy 2006):
We told Admiral Lee to tell Halsey to leave something out there watching the strait, because they were bound to come out and everyone seemed to know that. But the reaction was, if you tell Halsey to do something, that's the one thing he won't do.... In my opinion it was the greatest tactical blunder of the war.​
Service record

1888-5-11

Born at Natlee, Kentucky
1908
Midshipman
Graduates from Naval Academy
1908-10

BB Idaho
1909-5
Ensign
Navy Rifle Team
1909-11-15

CL New Orleans
1910-5

PG Helena
1913-1

Navy Rifle Team
1913-7

BB Idaho
1913-12

BB New Hampshire
1915-12

Inspector of ordnance, Union Tool Company, Chicago
1918-11

DD O'Brien
1918-12

DD Lea
1919-6

Navy Rifle Team1919-9

Executive Officer AS Bushnell
1920

U.S. Rifle Team, Olympic Games
1920-9

DD Fairfax
1921-6

DD William B. Preston
1924-11

New York Navy Yard
1926-11

AG Antares
1928-11

Commander, DD Lardner
1928

Naval War College
1929-6

Inspector of ordnance, Baldwin, Louisiana
1930

Division of Fleet Training
1931

BB Pennsylvania
1933-6
Captain
Head, Gunnery Section, Division of Fleet Training
1935

Head, Tactical Section, Division of Fleet Training
1936

Commander, CL Concord
1938-7

Staff, Cruisers, Battle Force
1938-12

Chief of staff, Cruisers, Battle Force
1939-6

Assistant Director, Division of Fleet Training
1941-1

Director, Division of Fleet Training
1942-2

Assistant chief of staff, U.S. Fleet
1942-3-27
Rear admiral
Commander, Battleship Division 6
1943-4-16
Vice admiralCommander, Battleships, Pacific Fleet
1944-12-15

Commander, Battleship Squadron 2
1945-6-16

Assistant Chief of Staff for Readiness
1945-8-25

Dies in the line of duty


Photo Gallery

U.S. Navy

NARA

U.S. Navy



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