Tennessee Vols Basketball Recruiting

[JohnnyD1024]

I love Fulky, but you’re high as hell if you think he’s better than CJ Black, who is still the career leader in blocks at UT. While also amassing 1200 points & 700 rebounds in his career.

You also left Kyle Alexander outta the discussion? Who has 100 more blocks and 150+ more rebounds for his career than John who will have played 6 seasons before leaving.

I love Fulky, but unless he has a huge year I don’t know that he can really cement himself as a top 15 big.

He will atleast need to win SEC player of the year imo.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

It’s Carlus, NOT Carlos.

 

[ArdentVol]

need to go back on this thread, but where does Boerwinkle rank. Watched his development from a Stu with a broom project to the NBA. Before him Gene Tormohlen

 

[VolArmy74]

Such as? List out the pure posts/centers since 1975-1976 who were better than Fulkerson. (In no particular order). You are welcome add other names as possible I missed some.

The following 8 were better than Fulkerson:
Reggie Johnson C
Howard Wood 6’7 C/BF
Steve Hamer C
Marcus Haislip BF
Brandon Crump C
Wayne Chism BF
Jarnell Stokes C
Grant Williams 6’7 BF

These next 9 are debatable:
Willie Burton 6’7 BF
Rob Jones 6’7 C/BF
Ian Lockhart BF
Carlos Groves 6’7 BF
Kevin Whitted 6’9 BF
CJ Black C
Isaiah Victor 6’9 BF
Major Wingate C
Jeronne Maymon 6’6 BF

So Top 15 only requires he is better than 3 on this list immediately above. Not a stretch. He is more skilled offensively than any of the 9 above, isn’t as good a rebounder or defender than a number of them (due to strength), but still overall debatable. And he has one more year to go.

All these below are obviously better than Fulkerson but the original question posed and my response was about pure posts/centers.
Bernard King. 6’7 a SF who played in post; was SF in NBA his entire career
Dale Ellis 6’7 SF who played in post or baseline; was 2G or SF during his NBA career
Dyron Nix 6’7 yet another SF who played both post and on perimeter
Ron Slay 6’7 often played SF and facing basket despite weighing 240
Tyler Smith 6’7 another SF who at times played low/high post, but also faced basket a lot in Pearl’s offense

When folks suggest Barnes needs to have better post/centers I don’t think they are suggesting he needs more 6’7 combo talent who play in the paint. Historically we have a good number of these types. But very few great pure centers or back to the basket power forwards at UT. In fact if you narrow the scope to just centers since 1975, given that is what Fulkerson has played primarily, the list gets a lot smaller. 45 years is a long time but our list of good college centers isn’t very long. Dan Federman, Doug Roth, and Charles Hathaways, etc.....didn’t make the cut.

King lived in the post here, you can't just say "he played SF in the NBA" and take him off the list. Same for Ellis. They made their living playing in the post in college, scoring and rebounding there, just because they had a good jump shot doesn't mean they weren't post players. I also count Slay as a post, even if he played outside the 3 point line on offense. He defended and rebounded from the post. Same for Nix. CJ Black was far better as has been pointed out. Isiah Victor averaged 4 more PPG in his career than Fulkerson and nearly double the rebounds. Lockhart averaged 13/10 as a senior. Doug Roth as a soph averaged 10/7 senior averaged 10/8 and isn't on your list, Rob Jones has better numbers across the board than Fulky and he isn't on your list either, Jones averaged 12.5 and 8.6 rpg as a junior and shot 60 percent from the floor, 11/8 as a senior. Fulkerson averaged 9/5 this year and 13/6 as a junior. Due to him playing now people have a natural bias and focus on Fulkerson's great run in the last 10-12 games of 2019-20 and broad brush that across his career.

 

[i2amavol]

King lived in the post here, you can't just say "he played SF in the NBA" and take him off the list. Same for Ellis. They made their living playing in the post in college, scoring and rebounding there, just because they had a good jump shot doesn't mean they weren't post players. I also count Slay as a post, even if he played outside the 3 point line on offense. He defended and rebounded from the post. Same for Nix. CJ Black was far better as has been pointed out. Isiah Victor averaged 4 more PPG in his career than Fulkerson and nearly double the rebounds. Lockhart averaged 13/10 as a senior. Doug Roth as a soph averaged 10/7 senior averaged 10/8 and isn't on your list, Rob Jones has better numbers across the board than Fulky and he isn't on your list either, Jones averaged 12.5 and 8.6 rpg as a junior and shot 60 percent from the floor, 11/8 as a senior. Fulkerson averaged 9/5 this year and 13/6 as a junior. Due to him playing now people have a natural bias and focus on Fulkerson's great run in the last 10-12 games of 2019-20 and broad brush that across his career.

Two questions: how many did this after major injuries/illness, and while playing on championship teams? I think it will be a lot easier to judge Fulkerson after the upcoming year. Yes, he has been here a long time, but I don't think he has played 4 full seasons of basketball yet.

I think it will be up to him what his legacy becomes. I hope he takes some time off to heal and rest, and then gets on a non-Pal's diet, and really pushes it in the weightroom and gym, during the off-season. I think most of us would be surprised with the result, if he had one more normal season where he was allowed to compete without personal challenges getting in the way.

 

[VolArmy74]

Two questions: how many did this after major injuries/illness, and while playing on championship teams? I think it will be a lot easier to judge Fulkerson after the upcoming year. Yes, he has been here a long time, but I don't think he has played 4 full seasons of basketball yet.

I think it will be up to him what his legacy becomes. I hope he takes some time off to heal and rest, and then gets on a non-Pal's diet, and really pushes it in the weightroom and gym, during the off-season. I think most of us would be surprised with the result, if he had one more normal season where he was allowed to compete without personal challenges getting in the way.

You can't play the what if game. Availability is part of a legacy. It's unfair to penalize people who contribute multiple years because they are actually healthy.

Who did it on championship teams? Victor, Black, Smith, Burton, Slay, Chism, Ellis, King, Wood and Johnson are 10 guys who played F/C who won championships and definitely were bigger contributors than Fulkerson who averaged 1.7 points and 1.6 rebounds on the 2018 SECC team.

I hope Fulkerson plays so well this year that he moves into all time great status here. As of now he's not really in that spot but he did have an all time great game in Lexington in 2019-20.

 

[wellsea180]

Interesting question but in context how many great post players has UT had historically?

Grant is among the best ever power forward/centers that UT has ever had, and Barnes coached him. Arguably may be the best post player Tennessee has ever had with two SEC player of the year awards. I have been watching UT basketball since 1975 and would easily consider Fulkerson among the top 15 post/power forwards at UT over these last 45 years...and Barnes has coached him too. Some examples, Reggie Johnson who played in the late 70’s, Howard Wood who also played in the 70’s and similar to Grant was only 6’7, Jarnell Stokes, Wayne Chism. Maymon had one pretty good year as an undersized 4. Isaiah Victor was solid (and often forgotten). Marcus Haislip had one great year than went pro immediately. CJ Black was pretty good. Carlos Groves yet another undersized BF was decent but played on horrible squads. Etc....

Insofar as pure centers are concerned Tom Boerwinkle who played in the 60’s, or Steve Hamer who played in the early 90’s come to mind. Brandon Crump was pretty good. Major Wingate had one decent year. Willie Burton and Rob Jones were both serviceable but undersized centers. A.W. Davis was a 6’7 center in early 60’s. Who else? Kyle Alexander was not a great center but how he developed under Barnes was unquestionable and we all know he was really forced to play as a freshman. Barnes wanted to redshirt him. Going back beyond the 60’s I can’t really speak too but a different era of basketball obviously.

Now Bernard King and Dale Ellis were the best 2 players in UT history but both were small forwards who happened to play in the post a lot. Ron Slay likewise was a big small forward who could play on perimeter or post up. Dyron Nix, an athletic freak who also was a small forward who jumped over teams in the paint. Tyler Smith also a 6’7 SF who could both high or low post. Likewise Admiral, Armani Moore were undersized players who often had to play out of position were both SF. I don’t consider any of them as pure post players in regard to this conversation. UT has historically played a lot of guys who probably had more of a small forward skill set at the 4 often out of necessity.

At Texas Barnes had 4 centers/post players who were drafted in the 1st round of NBA draft (Aldridge, Turner, Thompson, and Mihm) in 17 years. (I didn’t even count Durant who had SF skill set despite being 6’10). So Barnes has already shown he can develop post players. I suppose my point is....finding/developing great centers or post players is much more difficult than developing guards/wings or even PGs....for literally any program. Especially great centers. For UT they have been few and far between for any coach EVER.

In my opinion, Grant Williams is one of the best BF/post players in UT history. Fulkerson, although a different player, is in same category as CJ Black, Rob Jones, Isaiah Victor, Jerome Maymon (all good college players) historically in my opinion for positional players in the last 45 years. Barnes has coached him too. Modern basketball Is much different than how basketball was even played in decades past, largely due to 3 pt line and shot clock, but there isn’t anything to suggest Barnes can’t develop post players. Position less basketball is here to stay, but I do agree that having post presence is still critical. Now it is his job to recruit them, but nevertheless difficult to find too. Baylor won a national championship with a ton of perimeter players, an undersized BF, a tall bench player who could stroke from the 3 and a couple serviceable post players who defended and got rebounds. Welcome to basketball in the 2020’s. They just happened to have a ton of really good perimeter players who could create shots and hit perimeter shots. Sort of like Villanova’s runs.

Given this fact it is somewhat of an indictment of programs like UNC for instance given they seem to have high school All American centers/post players (sometimes multiple at the same time) in the program year after year after year. Can’t argue with their historic success but it isn’t as if they lacked the players particularly at post. I still think having balance is the best path for success but just difficult (particularly in this day and age) to find anyone who can play (or even wants to play) in the post. That is not an insignificant challenge and if you look at the history of UT basketball isn’t exactly a new challenge.

I saw some crazy stat half the players who ever played in the NBA and went to Texas where coached by Rick Barnes

 

[Namorto1]

King lived in the post here, you can't just say "he played SF in the NBA" and take him off the list. Same for Ellis. They made their living playing in the post in college, scoring and rebounding there, just because they had a good jump shot doesn't mean they weren't post players. I also count Slay as a post, even if he played outside the 3 point line on offense. He defended and rebounded from the post. Same for Nix. CJ Black was far better as has been pointed out. Isiah Victor averaged 4 more PPG in his career than Fulkerson and nearly double the rebounds. Lockhart averaged 13/10 as a senior. Doug Roth as a soph averaged 10/7 senior averaged 10/8 and isn't on your list, Rob Jones has better numbers across the board than Fulky and he isn't on your list either, Jones averaged 12.5 and 8.6 rpg as a junior and shot 60 percent from the floor, 11/8 as a senior. Fulkerson averaged 9/5 this year and 13/6 as a junior. Due to him playing now people have a natural bias and focus on Fulkerson's great run in the last 10-12 games of 2019-20 and broad brush that across his career.

Rob Jones was on my list. I said it was debatable whether he was better than Fulkerson. Pick his last 2 years compared to Fulkerson’s most recent 2 years.
Rob Jones was 6’7 and averaged 35-36 minutes per game. About 11 PPG, 8 RPG, efficient 59% FG. Also played with one of the greatest perimeter scorers in UT history in Tony White and Michael Brooks who was a ridiculous perimeter shooter.
Fulkerson in fewer minutes, about 28 MPG, same PPG, fewer boards by 2, yet also very efficient FG%. With a worse supporting cast than Jones. Fulky is better offensively IMO. Clearly not as good of a rebounder, but with 7 fewer minutes per game.
CJ Black also a fine player. Probably would give him an edge over Fulkerson at this point but his legacy isn’t over yet. Different years, but compared to peers Fulkerson was 2nd team SEC. Black made 3rd team one year. Still think Fulkerson is more skilled than Black offensively. Black was better defender, shot blocker, and a little better rebounder.

A previous note claimed Barnes success will ultimately depend on his ability to develop the post position. Essentially questioning his ability to do so. Even including the elites King, Ellis, etc...and Williams is probably #3. You can go back 45 years and not find that many great UT post players. In fact, since 1975 there have only been about 12 UT post players who made 1st or 2nd team SEC. Fulkerson happens to be one of them. Barnes has developed him too and thankfully has him for one more year.

 

[i2amavol]

You can't play the what if game. Availability is part of a legacy. It's unfair to penalize people who contribute multiple years because they are actually healthy.

Who did it on championship teams? Victor, Black, Smith, Burton, Slay, Chism, Ellis, King, Wood and Johnson are 10 guys who played F/C who won championships and definitely were bigger contributors than Fulkerson who averaged 1.7 points and 1.6 rebounds on the 2018 SECC team.

I hope Fulkerson plays so well this year that he moves into all time great status here. As of now he not really in that spot but he did have an all time great game in Lexington in 2019-20.

OK, but that is what I am saying. Some people are saying he has been here forever. Well, he has, but he has not been playing here forever. Let's give him time to prove what he's really capable of before we close the case. It's not a done deal yet.

 

[BigOrangeGoose]

Rivals showing some love to Tennessee

2. WHICH RECENT COMMITMENT DO YOU THINK WILL HAVE THE BIGGEST IMPACT ON THE 2021-22 SEASON?

Cassidy: I’m really high on Jonas Aidoo and the rare skillset he brings. He’s one of the more explosive bigs in the country and has the skill to impact SEC games on both ends of the floor from day one. Bigs with Aidoo’s well-rounded profile are rare in the college game.

Wood: I’m going with five-star forward
Brandon Huntley-Hatfield. He was the No. 14 prospect in the class of 2022 Rivals150 but has reclassified to join the Tennessee Vols in 2021. He has good size, long arms, is an effective rebounder and has the ball skills to be used in a similar fashion as Florida State used Scottie Barnes.

3. WHAT HAS BEEN THE MOST SURPRISING COMMITMENT OR DEVELOPMENT OF THE 2021 CYCLE?

McDonald: After adding three more prospects in the last couple weeks, including two significant ones this week in Brandon Huntley-Hatfield and Jonas Aidoo, Tennessee has followed up its No. 6 overall class in 2020 with the No. 2 class now in the 2021 cycle. That doesn’t even include the addition of Auburn freshman guard Justin Powell through the transfer portal. Rick Barnes, despite losing two valuable assistants to head coaching jobs in the past month, has done a terrific job stockpiling his roster with talent once again.

Wood: Tennessee’s offseason has been very impressive and I really have to give Rick Barnes a head nod of respect. Keon Johnson and Jaden Springer declare for the draft. Kim English (George Mason) and Desmond Oliver (East Tennessee State) leave Knoxville to become head coaches. So, things were looking kind of dingy on Rocky Top. What does Barnes do? He lands four-star center, and former Marquette commit, and Aidoo, then scoops up Huntley-Hatfield. That Bobby Maze connection helped immensely with Huntely-Hatfield.

Link to article
Basketball Recruiting - Rivals Roundtable: Where will Efton Reid end up?

 

[TheMookieMonster]

A lot of praise for a senior citizen just collecting retirement checks here in Knoxville....

 

[TrapVol]

Rivals showing some love to Tennessee



Link to article
Basketball Recruiting - Rivals Roundtable: Where will Efton Reid end up?

You know Barnes must've been drilling into BHH's head all season how much playing time is available at his position, along with an elite PG to get him the ball. BMaze aside, that had to be a big factor.

 

[LeannaVol]

It’s Carlus, NOT Carlos.

Carlus was a fun player to watch for UT. A banger with some skills. He was completely overshadowed by Shaquille and a few other guys in the SEC but helped UT win some games.

 

[The Dog]

Carlus had a big ol' butt and when he got u boxed out, the rebound was his

 

[youcancallmeAl]

At TN Grunfeld was pretty much the 3 and King the 4. I think King was also the 5 at times. Mike Jackson was the shooting guard. But King and Grunfeld was pretty much a two man star system and the other 3 on the court filled roles. King was a beast in the paint no matter how he was labeled. He was everywhere in the NBA. Pretty much get him the ball on the perimeter and watch him go to work. He was unstoppable until his knee blew up. In the open court nobody could stop him from scoring. More of and offensive threat than Jordan when MJ was early in his career. Peak King and Peak Jordan were very similar.

King not only had a very high vertical leap, but he was the quickest leaper I've ever seen. He was so fast off the floor that he could play the 4 or the 5 at only 6.6 (if that), and was a rebound vacuum cleaner. He just got off the floor faster than anyone else and rose higher and got to the rebound before anyone else. I recall an overtime win at Kentucky where he dominated a very tall and excellent Ky front line all game long. He was the best player in UT history, IMHO.

 

[USAFgolferVol]

Grunfeld would have been a solid shooting guard and King was the best small forward in Tennessee basketball history.

King is far and away the best player ever here. Arguably the best ever in the SEC. He played post here and is the best one ever. He averaged 12+ rebounds for his career. The best small forward/shooting guard was Allan Houston or Ernie Grunfeld

 

[USAFgolferVol]

King not only had a very high vertical leap, but he was the quickest leaper I've ever seen. He was so fast off the floor that he could play the 4 or the 5 at only 6.6 (if that), and was a rebound vacuum cleaner. He just got off the floor faster than anyone else and rose higher and got to the rebound before anyone else. I recall an overtime win at Kentucky where he dominated a very tall and excellent Ky front line all game long. He was the best player in UT history, IMHO.

It's not an opinion that he's best in UT history

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

King is far and away the best player ever here. Arguably the best ever in the SEC. He played post here and is the best one ever. He averaged 12+ rebounds for his career. The best small forward/shooting guard was Allan Houston or Ernie Grunfeld

King averaged more than 13 rebounds per game over his entire career. When there was not a shot clock to speed games up. I don’t think that there have even been many single games in the last decade or two where a TN player has grabbed 13 or more rebounds. Then when he got to the NBA nobody could prevent him from scoring at will.

 

[USAFgolferVol]

King averaged over 13 rebounds per game over his entire career. When there was not a shot clock to speed games up. I don’t think that there have even been many single games in the last decade or two where a TN player has grabbed 13 or more rebounds. Then when he got to the NBA nobody could prevent him from scoring at will.

From 1981-1985, he was the best player in the NBA. Larry Bird said so

 

[AngryButchJones]

From 1981-1985, he was the best player in the NBA. Larry Bird said so

I don't remember the stat line now, but there was something a recent NBA player did that was the 1st time it had happened since 1985, and the last player to do it was Bernard King.

I just missed getting to see King play (curse my parents for not having me sooner). He's the one former Vol hoops player I'd LOVE to go back in time and watch.

 

[walkenvol]

If not for the sever knee injury, King would be in the discussion as one of the NBA GOATs

 

[MoCo_Vol]

King is tops, but I'd say 2nd place has some debatable options. Personally for me it's Vincent Yarbrough I think there is some bias since his era was when I really got into Vol's basketball. Obviously Allan Houston is in the discussion as well, but never got to watch him play live and it seems like he focused mostly on scoring based on the stats. And of course Grant would also be in the discussion for me.

All-Time starting 5 for me:
PG - CJ Watson
SG - Allan Houston
SF - Vincent Yarbrough
PF - Bernard King
C - Steve Hamer

Grant & Ernie = First off bench

 

[Vol 85]

My starting 5 would be :
PG C.J. WATSON
SG ALLAN HOUSTON
SF DALE ELLIS
PF BERNARD KING
C STEVE HAMER
2nd 5
Johnny Darden
Chris Lofton
Ernie Grunfeld
Reggie Johnson
Grant Williams

 

[USAFgolferVol]

King is tops, but I'd say 2nd place has some debatable options. Personally for me it's Vincent Yarbrough I think there is some bias since his era was when I really got into Vol's basketball. Obviously Allan Houston is in the discussion as well, but never got to watch him play live and it seems like he focused mostly on scoring based on the stats. And of course Grant would also be in the discussion for me.

All-Time starting 5 for me:
PG - CJ Watson
SG - Allan Houston
SF - Vincent Yarbrough
PF - Bernard King
C - Steve Hamer

Grant & Ernie = First off bench

Must have forgotten about Dale Ellis who is easily the the 2nd best Vol of all time

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Must have forgotten about Dale Ellis who is easily the the 2nd best Vol of all time

Definitely forgot about him! But never watched him play either. Seems like a better scoring version of Yarbrough though from the stats.