Tennessee Should Be A Cautionary Tale for LSU, Others

#1
U

UtahVol

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#1
Watching this LSU thing play out this week is like watching a movie all over again. Seems pretty comparable to Tennessee in 2008.

Although I think Tennessee was forced to make a move in 2008 as the program was in consistent decline, the error that the program made is assuming that the period 1994-2001 was the "norm" for Tennessee rather than a happy aberration. In the 1990s, Tennessee benefited from a lot of programs being down, including most notably LSU and Alabama, and that allowed Tennessee to achieve results which were abnormally good.

When the team retreated to the mean and was 9-3 or 8-4 when those programs started their resurgence, Fulmer's seat warmed up and two losing seasons cost him his job.

LSU seems to be making the same mistake. They assume that the period when they won two national titles was the "norm" rather than the aberration. Since those days, Miles doesn't appear to have become a better or worse coach, but rather those around him--Mississippi, Auburn, Alabama, even Miss. State and Arkansas--have improved, thereby making LSU's road to national titles more difficult.

I am not sure there is a coach out there that can win at the rate LSU fans feel is their "normal." The fact is that Jimbo Fisher, their purported #1 target, has not even attained those records consistently in a substantially weaker ACC. And as we have seen, it is difficult to lure a coach when the expectations are so high that success is virtually impossible. LSU may be regretting this decision eight years later after they have a period like Tennessee went through.
 
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#2
#2
If what is being reported is true, Les Miles will be unemployed for about 5 seconds and 11 million dollars richer.
 
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#3
#3
I think it's cyclical. Everybody can't be good at once, even though Miles is 6th in the FBS in wins since he's been hired. Dumb move if true.
 
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#5
#5
This is one of those times it appears that there are fans out there even dumber than Bammers.
 
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#6
#6
Can we please stop with the "UT benefited from the rest of the league being down in the 90's"? We're not one of the ALL TIME winningest programs because we were just good from 94 - 01. We've been good throughout our history with some ruts like other top programs, so let's cut that sh*t out.
 
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#7
#7
Just because I can't resist, LSU wasn't down from 94-01. They were never much before nick Saban got there. Only five 10 win seasons in their history before Saban and miles. But yes, they're making a turd of a decision down there.
 
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#8
#8
Won't the amount of his buyout be reduced by the amount of any new contract he signs?
 
#9
#9
I still don't think the losing season was the end. I think it was everyone seeing Cutcliffe come back, watching Tennessee's offense suddenly revive, and then watching it fall apart when Cutcliffe left for Duke. The perception became "it was Chavis and Cutcliffe that made Tennessee competitive in the 90s" rather than Fulmer. That "coach as CEO" stigma is a hard one to bear if you start losing. I mean, I guess the losing season shut the door for him, but short of getting back to 10-11 wins a year, I don't think he was long for the job after the Cutcliffe changeover.

Really, had he just not dropped two Ls that year, he would have probably made it through to the Tajh Boyd era and righted the ship. Just should have picked a better OC ... oh well.
 
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#10
#10
Firing Les Miles is dumb. Let's remember this and give our Coach a break when he's not perfect.
 
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#12
#12
Tennessee was one of the top ten winningest programs in college football history. I don't think having success in the 90's was an "aberration" I agree though LSU smacks of the same situation where they are being too quick to pull the trigger. They have this feeling that it's their God given right to be a top 3 program every year and can't tolerate even a little bit of fallback.

Programs have fallen due to being too quick to dismiss their coach and think it's their right to be an elite program, always in contention for the NC. Nebraska is one, Miami another.
 
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#13
#13
checkerboards09 said:
Can we please stop with the "UT benefited from the rest of the league being down in the 90's"? We're not one of the ALL TIME winningest programs because we were just good from 94 - 01. We've been good throughout our history with some ruts like other top programs, so let's cut that sh*t out.
Click to expand...

Someone gets it.
 
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#16
#16
UtahVol said:
Watching this LSU thing play out this week is like watching a movie all over again. Seems pretty comparable to Tennessee in 2008.

Although I think Tennessee was forced to make a move in 2008 as the program was in consistent decline, the error that the program made is assuming that the period 1994-2001 was the "norm" for Tennessee rather than a happy aberration. In the 1990s, Tennessee benefited from a lot of programs being down, including most notably LSU and Alabama, and that allowed Tennessee to achieve results which were abnormally good.

When the team retreated to the mean and was 9-3 or 8-4 when those programs started their resurgence, Fulmer's seat warmed up and two losing seasons cost him his job.

LSU seems to be making the same mistake. They assume that the period when they won two national titles was the "norm" rather than the aberration. Since those days, Miles doesn't appear to have become a better or worse coach, but rather those around him--Mississippi, Auburn, Alabama, even Miss. State and Arkansas--have improved, thereby making LSU's road to national titles more difficult.

I am not sure there is a coach out there that can win at the rate LSU fans feel is their "normal." The fact is that Jimbo Fisher, their purported #1 target, has not even attained those records consistently in a substantially weaker ACC. And as we have seen, it is difficult to lure a coach when the expectations are so high that success is virtually impossible. LSU may be regretting this decision eight years later after they have a period like Tennessee went through.
Click to expand...

Just stop - never seen so many of Fullmer's cousins coming out of the woodwork. These cases are not the same - they are not close. They are opposite ends of the spectrum - one is still a great recruiter - the other had lost interest in recruiting. One had two losing seasons in his last 4 seasons and the other never had anything close to a losing season. You can always successfully let some member of management go - you simply have to bring in someone stronger, better to take his place. I like Les Miles - good guy and the players love him. This one could go either way- if they are smart they already have a Sabanesk replacement lined up. Not everyone is going to completely miss with someone like a Dooley.
 
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#17
#17
It may have been better to keep Fulmer as the "face" of the program and merely taken away some game day responsibility and prep work. Penn St. continued to be strong with Paterno as the "face" of the program...although we know he had very little to do with the day to day preparation and "hands on" coaching. Does anybody think Bobby Bowden was heavily involved in actual "coaching" day to day?

One thing UT has going is recruiting. Recruiting is the MAIN THING, and CBJ is getting multiple top 3 classes. That is HUGE.

We have to put up with his game changing, bad coaching decisions unfortunately in lieu of having elite talent. Imo if we had a better in game coach we would 10-1 right now.
 
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#18
#18
Sacking Fulmer was the right thing to do--and I applaud Hamilton for having the balls to do it. Yes, some SEC teams were down in the 1990s, including LSU and bama, but it is also true that we were very good. We don't play LSU very often, so its situation didn't factor into UT's performance during that period. Florida was very very good and georgia was decent-good. Fulmer was burnt out, his staff wasn't good, and our recruiting had fallen off precipitously. The law of diminishing returns kicks in big-time in major-college football. How many coaching greats have been better at the 20 year mark than they were at the 5 or 7 or 10 year mark? Almost none. The burn out factor is very real. Pa. State ruined their great program by keeping Paterno for /at least/ 10 years longer than then should have (probably 15!). Spurrier left florida after 11 years or so. We got unlucky with the USC job coming open unexpectedly. Otherwise, he would have brought us back pretty quickly, IMO. He would not have stayed long--maybe 5 years if successful--but we would have been in good shape when he did. That was bad luck--and then Dooley was just a terrible hire. It has been hard for us to rebuild because the SEC has been super-strong over the last decade--and we don't have a natural recruiting base like georgia, florida, louisiana and even alaredneckbama.
 
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#20
#20
OldandStillaVol said:
If he doesn't have Jimbo locked up, then you may be right. I think Jimbo and LSU have already agreed verbally.

If Jimbo leaves FSU, then who steps in there?
Click to expand...

I'd really be shocked if jimbo leaves fsu, but stranger things have happened!
 
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#21
#21
checkerboards09 said:
Can we please stop with the "UT benefited from the rest of the league being down in the 90's"? We're not one of the ALL TIME winningest programs because we were just good from 94 - 01. We've been good throughout our history with some ruts like other top programs, so let's cut that sh*t out.
Click to expand...

Amen. And just add to your point, Tennessee is the 9th winningest division 1 program in history, is second all time in SEC history in championships won and in games won. Some people act like Tennessee success began in the 90's. Those same people would do well to ask themselves how Tennessee came to have the 4th largest stadium in America.
 
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#22
#22
checkerboards09 said:
Can we please stop with the "UT benefited from the rest of the league being down in the 90's"? We're not one of the ALL TIME winningest programs because we were just good from 94 - 01. We've been good throughout our history with some ruts like other top programs, so let's cut that sh*t out.
Click to expand...

Exactly!
 
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#23
#23
checkerboards09 said:
Can we please stop with the "UT benefited from the rest of the league being down in the 90's"? We're not one of the ALL TIME winningest programs because we were just good from 94 - 01. We've been good throughout our history with some ruts like other top programs, so let's cut that sh*t out.
Click to expand...

Absolutely correct. This self loathing crap is old. It's done to avoid the wrath of the bashers on here. People are afraid to say anything good about UT for fear of getting raked over the coals.
 
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