Tennessee set up better for long term success then Bama/UGA

[volbound1700]

Georgia is the new King. I do feel Alabama is in a very slow decline. I think Alabama has one more National Title run left in them though.

We are setup around 3-4 right now (LSU is rising fast as well). Granted we need to show that we have sustained success by winning 9-10 regular season games again this year. That could be a challenge.

Oklahoma is recruiting well and if their coaching can improve, they could be a force when they join the SEC.

 

[GVF]

Bama's long term success started 15 years ago.

 

[sjt18]

I think this is true for the most part. . I think he needs elite talent on the o line and at qb. We do need elite talent on defense and he’s working on it.

OL evaluations are probably the hardest for the recruiting sites. Measurables can identify some good OLs. They can pay attention to who certain programs pursue. But OL is primarily a developmental position. The things that determine success are often not easily seen in a HS player.

I honestly don't know if Heupel and his staff are getting guys who can become great OLs. But I don't think you can make the claim they aren't based on "stars". Ekem Ekwonu was the first OL taken in last year's NFL draft. He was drafted as an OT. As a recruit according to 247, he was a 6'4" 288 lb 3* OG.

My point isn't that you aren't getting elite talent if you're getting 5* guys. You probably are. My point is that the handwringing done by some when UT gets 3* guys and especially on the OL isn't necessary. There is a lot of elite talent in every class that doesn't get 4/5*.

 

[sjt18]

Great coaches find a way regardless of overall talent. However, to maintain it, you need the talent to improve. Heupel did a fantastic job this season but we are not surprising anyone next year nor are they taking us lightly. We must spend more on recruiting and start getting those 4* and 5 * guys lined up. Sonny Dykes did an amazing job too, but if I were to bet I would say TCU takes a couple steps back this coming season.
Imagine what Heupel could do with the level of talent uga and bama get year over year.

Which games specifically do you think UT won because the opponent took the Vols lightly? I'm going to say zero.

And no, you don't have to get those "4* and 5* guys lined up". You NEED talent. There is talent in every class that can be developed into an elite roster that doesn't necessarily get 4/5*. I'm not saying that a high percentage of 4/5* guys lack talent. If you get those guys then there's a decent chance they have talent. I am saying that in any given class there are a LOT of 3* players with talent equal to or greater than guys who are rated higher. That's particularly true when you compare 3* to 4*. The 5* guys are a subset of the guys perceived to be the "cream" of the class.

So you need talent. Then you need to develop talent... which Heupel and his staff have demonstrated at a high level. And you need players who are recruited and developed capable of running your schemes at a very high level. And you need a coach (especially where UT is) who can out scheme and outcoach opponents on gameday.

According to 247, there was a MASSIVE difference in talent between UT and Bama last year. I don't think you can argue that Bama was poorly coached. UT beat them but more importantly it was no fluke. The Vols, man for man, belonged on the field with the most talented team in the country. That illustrates that there are talented guys who don't get those high ratings... but more it illustrates the impact of elite development and coaching.

Coaching and development are the factors you seem to be discounting.

 

[sjt18]

I think we may end up looking pretty good on D this year too

I hope.

I irritate people so I'm sorry for saying it again... but I'm not buying Banks yet. I want to. I fully recognize that the talent he's had to work with was not ideal either in quality or depth. But I also think there were times when the talent deficiencies alone do not fully explain poor performance. The USCe game is a pretty obvious example. The UF game was one also.

I think the problems at CB make a clear judgment of the D impossible. Burrell was never a fan favorite but just losing a "mediocre" CB from UT's depth proved big. They asked natural safeties to play CB for much of the year. Guys like Charles and Slaughter looked good at S and Star but were vulnerable as CBs,

My hope is that having them play CB helped develop some cover skills that will make them elite cover safeties when they're moved back.

 

[sjt18]

Heupel can put up great offenses without out recruiting. Defense? Different story. Be interesting to see if we take a step in defense this year.

Yes. Heupel has to depend on someone else to make the D elite. Pure athleticism tends to factor more on D than O. That means that the recruit rankings have more merit.

J Jennings is proving you can be a very good WR without having elite speed. He wouldn't be a pro now if they'd moved him to S as some wanted.

 

[vegasvolfan]

I hope.

I irritate people so I'm sorry for saying it again... but I'm not buying Banks yet. I want to. I fully recognize that the talent he's had to work with was not ideal either in quality or depth. But I also think there were times when the talent deficiencies alone do not fully explain poor performance. The USCe game is a pretty obvious example. The UF game was one also.

I think the problems at CB make a clear judgment of the D impossible. Burrell was never a fan favorite but just losing a "mediocre" CB from UT's depth proved big. They asked natural safeties to play CB for much of the year. Guys like Charles and Slaughter looked good at S and Star but were vulnerable as CBs,

My hope is that having them play CB helped develop some cover skills that will make them elite cover safeties when they're moved back.

I think buying in and bailing are two different things. There is plenty to be skeptical about, but there are some things worth considering when it comes to voting him out. I think our scoring defense was twice as good year two as it was year one. At the end of every game, what decides it is the scoreboard. Let's see if we can he twice as good again!

 

[901 Orange]

I wholly disagree with the premise, so much so that I'm almost irritated by how easily it can be twisted. If Josh Heupel is such a blessing for Tennessee when it comes to the impact of finding offensive coordinators, then why aren't Alabama and Georgia given similar evaluations for dealing with defensive hires? Saban and Smart are both defensive-minded and defense-oriented coaches. By the same logic that article uses to award Tennessee such a status, one could do the same for Georgia and Alabama on the other side of the ball. Why is it any different? Meh. Just doesn't add up to me. Feels like a very big reach.

This article is alluding to the fact that you gotta score points in this era of football. UGA & Bama have rolled out elite defenses for at least a decade. They typically only win Natty's when they have a top tier offense to go with those elite defenses. Basically the game is tailored to the offense. You can go far without an elite defense, if you have a juggernaut offense. You ain't going nowhere with an elite defense and trash offense in today's game. We have our own recent history to show us that this is pretty spot on.

 

[sjt18]

I think buying in and bailing are two different things. There is plenty to be skeptical about, but there are some things worth considering when it comes to voting him out. I think our scoring defense was twice as good year two as it was year one. At the end of every game, what decides it is the scoreboard. Let's see if we can he twice as good again!

Agree but I think the top end of UT's potential is when the D can reduce the number of plays and 1st downs they allow per possession along with a "good" point per drive number.

It would be great to see an elite ppg number but I don't think that's a good metric for a Heupel team. To me the best metric is how quickly they can get the ball back to the O while keeping points/possession at a reasonable level. Long drives allow opponents to dictate the game to UT and wears the D down.

 

[Voldog1998]

I can’t say I agree with this article bc I think much does come down to recruiting and talent level as you guys have said. However, I can’t deny CJH’s offensive prowess. Nico looks like he may be a stud QB and if the right guys are around him who knows? If Milton gets right who knows? Milton certainly has the arm for potential success.

I’m a huge CFB fan but just a fan. I played high level high school football in South GA in the late 90’s and have since just been a big fan, so I know a little but mostly from a fans experience.

IMHO, the quickest way for TN to really threaten the CFB world again, like they did last season, is to build a dominate O-line. Yes you need a good QB and a strong defense also. But if not Milton, I truly think Nico might be special. Kinda jealous on that front. You put Nico+CJH+a great O-line together and that could be special. TN is going to recruit or already has some great skill guys to go along. I’m not sure how you guys look on Defense in the future, but I’m certainly worried about your offense.

Agreed high level success in CFB has always started on the line of scrimmage and being able to dominate there.

 

[Captainzach1]

This article is alluding to the fact that you gotta score points in this era of football. UGA & Bama have rolled out elite defenses for at least a decade. They typically only win Natty's when they have a top tier offense to go with those elite defenses. Basically the game is tailored to the offense. You can go far without an elite defense, if you have a juggernaut offense. You ain't going nowhere with an elite defense and trash offense in today's game. We have our own recent history to show us that this is pretty spot on.

That was my takeaway, eventually Kirby and Saban gotta make a bad OC hire you’d think. But we don’t have to worry about that with Heupel.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

Heupel has solved Saban, now he needs to solve Smart.

 

[Captainzach1]

Heupel has solved Saban, now he needs to solve Smart.

I don’t think he’s that far off. It really came down to the line of scrimmage last time. We had guys open down field. Hooker was a bit off, the penalties killed us and Georgia got home with pass rush.

 

[Unconditional Surrender]

I wholly disagree with the premise, so much so that I'm almost irritated by how easily it can be twisted. If Josh Heupel is such a blessing for Tennessee when it comes to the impact of finding offensive coordinators, then why aren't Alabama and Georgia given similar evaluations for dealing with defensive hires? Saban and Smart are both defensive-minded and defense-oriented coaches. By the same logic that article uses to award Tennessee such a status, one could do the same for Georgia and Alabama on the other side of the ball. Why is it any different? Meh. Just doesn't add up to me. Feels like a very big reach.

Because there is more variance in the play of the QB position than any other in college football by far. It is also the most important position on the field by far. This is why great QBs consistently win in the NFL. In college, since great QBs graduate, it has been/will be those programs that can consistently develop great QBs. This is the position that a coach can have the most impact. The ability to develop QBs is a dynamic capability (to borrow from strategic management.)

 

[Unconditional Surrender]

Relying on coordinators instead of head coach to develop QBs is folly because they will just leave you for a HC gig. If you can consistently hire great OCs, that would be a substitute for a QB developing HC. But you have to be Alabama to be able to continually pull that off. And they won't be able to do it forever. Especially not when Saban leaves. The other program, besides Tennessee, that is about to launch is Southern Cal.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

I don’t think he’s that far off. It really came down to the line of scrimmage last time. We had guys open down field. Hooker was a bit off, the penalties killed us and Georgia got home with pass rush.

We did get a couple of guys open a few times but as you say Hooker was off but that had alot to do with the pressure and they dialed up some good blitzes. They've held us to 17 and 13, that's the only team to do that to our offense.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

Relying on coordinators instead of head coach to develop QBs is folly because they will just leave you for a HC gig. If you can consistently hire great OCs, that would be a substitute for a QB developing HC. But you have to be Alabama to be able to continually pull that off. And they won't be forever. The other program, besides Tennessee, that is about to launch is Southern Cal.

I wouldn't be so sure about Southern Cal, Riley is a great offensive mind but he has the opposite problem. It's well established now by 5 or 6 seasons that he either is incapable or doesn't care to develop a defense, that might win you some games in the PAC 12 but when you play the big boys, they'll have pretty good offenses and way better defenses and blow him out time and again.

 

[Unconditional Surrender]

I wouldn't be so sure about Southern Cal, Riley is a great offensive mind but he has the opposite problem. It's well established now by 5 or 6 seasons that he either is incapable or doesn't care to develop a defense, that might win you some games in the PAC 12 but when you play the big boys, they'll have pretty good offenses and way better defenses and blow him out time and again.

We shall see. SC is an even easier place to get top shelf defensive talent than Oklahoma

 

[sjt18]

UGA has the biggest recruiting advantage in the US. Bad take.

No doubt. And UT still has to find a way to beat them.

 

[ScornedPapaVol]

Alabama, Clemson and UK were all in the top 30 and most of the schools ahead of them didn't play against teams with offenses the likes of UT, Ole Miss, LSU and UGA. So, I do agree with the article. Keep in mind also that the Vols had little depth at most every position. They lost a ton of talented starters to the transfer portal, among them a 5* offensive lineman, a 4* DB, two 4* RBs. As the roster is replenished, the Vols will be among the most feared teams in the country. It's our time! 2024 and beyond!

The article is fine. I would like for it to be correct. It was not a problem for me.
I'm not even sure Clemson ever appeared elite during the season, before their opt-outs. Alabama was good but not great.. Kentucky's defense, . Certainly not elite. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Sarms58]

I wholly disagree with the premise, so much so that I'm almost irritated by how easily it can be twisted. If Josh Heupel is such a blessing for Tennessee when it comes to the impact of finding offensive coordinators, then why aren't Alabama and Georgia given similar evaluations for dealing with defensive hires? Saban and Smart are both defensive-minded and defense-oriented coaches. By the same logic that article uses to award Tennessee such a status, one could do the same for Georgia and Alabama on the other side of the ball. Why is it any different? Meh. Just doesn't add up to me. Feels like a very big reach.

It’s an off season inspirational piece…reality is that you must excel in all phases of the game and have a little luck to run the table.

 

[VolInNW]

While the the VolDawgs have made an appearance, their defense of all things uga has been muted. When I saw the thread title I just shook my head and anticipated a ferocious uga defense. Must be the offseason.......

 

[LAVol1]

The article is fine. I would like for it to be correct. It was not a problem for me.
I'm not even sure Clemson ever appeared elite during the season, before their opt-outs. Alabama was good but not great.. Kentucky's defense, . Certainly not elite. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

D rank: UGA - 10, UK - 12, UA -13

 

[ScornedPapaVol]

When I watched them play, Georgia looked and played elite. We couldn't run it at all. They had 6 sacks and 8 tackles for loss against us.
We ran it and threw it at will on Alabama & Kentucky. Call it what you want. I say UGA was the only elite defense we faced in 2022.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

When I watched them play, Georgia looked and played elite. We couldn't run it at all. They had 6 sacks and 8 tackles for loss against us.
We ran it and threw it at will on Alabama & Kentucky. Call it what you want. I say UGA was the only elite defense we faced in 2022.

Kentucky didn't have the athletes to hang with our receivers, so their scheme didn't matter.

Alabama had the athletes but they deployed them poorly.

Georgia had the athletes and deployed them well against us.

South Carolina certainly didn't have an elite defense but we couldn't stop them at all, not at all, so eventually our offense started pressing and stopped themselves, but still scored 38 points which should have won the ball game.