Tennessee is NOT a good job

[patrick]

It's toxic. No coach, even in a remotely good situation at his current job, and even in a smaller school/conference, will take this job right now.

Temper your expectations. And then lower them some more.

I'm not saying the standard should be lowered, but I'm at least expecting another Derek Dooley type hire--as in we are turned down by all the major prospects (Pitino, Smart, Howland, Miller, Marshall,...), then we are turned down by some smaller second tier names, and THEN we will hire someone no one has heard of from a a small mid-major.

Some of you need to gather your marbles that were lost years ago. Tennessee has a chance to be a GREAT job again, but it won't happen this time.

Temper your expectations. Then lower then again. This will prove to help with the VN meltdown when it plays out exactly as above.

I disagree completely - I think Tennessee is a really good job.

 

[Fijivol72]

It's toxic. No coach, even in a remotely good situation at his current job, and even in a smaller school/conference, will take this job right now.

Temper your expectations. And then lower them some more.

I'm not saying the standard should be lowered, but I'm at least expecting another Derek Dooley type hire--as in we are turned down by all the major prospects (Pitino, Smart, Howland, Miller, Marshall,...), then we are turned down by some smaller second tier names, and THEN we will hire someone no one has heard of from a a small mid-major.

Some of you need to gather your marbles that were lost years ago. Tennessee has a chance to be a GREAT job again, but it won't happen this time.

Temper your expectations. Then lower then again. This will prove to help with the VN meltdown when it plays out exactly as above.

Shut the drivel.

 

[SlyStone]

Some of you don't know the routine pressure faced by coaches at universities where the fans actually care. Ask Calipari about the fans calling for his head just last year. TN isn't KY, but we are a big time athletic department with a good basketball program. Some coaches embrace it (Mears, Pearl) and some run from it (Martin). TN needs the right personality and all will be fine.

When I read your comment,"TN needs the right personality and all will be fine." Why does that seem so coded? And by the way Martin ran from nothing. He did what was best for he and his family.

 

[VolGee4]

Somehow, I was trying to respond to a post that isn't there anymore.

I am about as positive as anyone can be- I think I was actually called a Martin lover at one point. While I don't agree that the job is "toxic," I do agree that it isn't as good of a job as others believe. Where is this money that you speak of? Why don't we actually invest in a proven coach? I have seen this far too many times to think otherwise. If Hart does something different, then I will be surprised. Bottom line though is that I will support whoever is announced just like I have for years. Just because he said something is not so rosy does not mean he us not a fan. We all want the best for our school, but I just wish we would invest more in what we are all proud of. JMO.

 

[VolArmy74]

I also will ask people who rattle off these long lists of better programs, where did their last hire come from?

In almost every case it was a rising star/mid-major type or they've had a coach for 20+ years.

 

[Godfatha]

Call me crazy, but Tennessee basketball, if taken seriously, has more potential than our football program. Tennessee will never be a Duke or Kentucky, but there is absolutely no reason it can't be consistently in that second tier. Within four hours of Knoxville, you've got the cities of Atlanta, Cincinnati, Louisville, Nashville, and Charlotte. Yeah, there are also a lot of great programs that recruit those areas, but there's a lot of leftover talent that you can win with. If you factor in that Memphis should be softening up, then there's no recruiting excuse.

The facilities are great. We self loathe about fan support, but we also have great attendance. The only thing stopping UT from having a good to great program is UT.

 

[VolGee4]

I also will ask people who rattle off these long lists of better programs, where did their last hire come from?

In almost every case it was a rising star/mid-major type or they've had a coach for 20+ years.

Roy Williams, Bill Self, Steve Alford, Tom Crean, John Calipari, Rick Barnes (from Clemson), John Beilein, John Groce (not a big risk because he took Ohio to NCAAT a couple of times), Sean Miller, Mark Gottfried, Rick Pitino, Thad Matta

All with prior tournament experience and most from a major university. Florida, Duke, Michigan State, and Syracuse will either pay for a proven coach or hire someone who has ties to the school and has succeeded.

I am not necessarily looking for a coach like this, but 1.0-1.3 won't find a coach with much tournament experience. I like Michael White's bio, but only 4 years and no tournaments concern me. I wish Buzz Wiliams was still around.

 

[UTProf]

Call me crazy, but Tennessee basketball, if taken seriously, has more potential than our football program. Tennessee will never be a Duke or Kentucky, but there is absolutely no reason it can't be consistently in that second tier. Within four hours of Knoxville, you've got the cities of Atlanta, Cincinnati, Louisville, Nashville, and Charlotte. Yeah, there are also a lot of great programs that recruit those areas, but there's a lot of leftover talent that you can win with. If you factor in that Memphis should be softening up, then there's no recruiting excuse.

The facilities are great. We self loathe about fan support, but we also have great attendance. The only thing stopping UT from having a good to great program is UT.

I've been saying this for a while. UT absolutely could become a monster program IF it were taken seriously. We have so many inbuilt advantages it's not even funny. But until/unless we really get behind having a consistently winning program things will remain the same.

The right coach could build something big here.

 

[OrangeBalls]

hard to say Martin wouldn't have come to Memphis (which is a much better job than Cal) when he just left to take a lesser job than Mem or Tenn

also, define "top tier". I've heard Parish say multiple times that Memphis is one of the 10 best jobs in America. He's probably a little too over the top, but its easily in the 10-20 range based on salary, facilities, fan support, recruiting base, and now conf affiliation.

Memphis is a top 20 job. UT is a top 30 job. However, people need to get over the fact that if UT doesn't hire a "name" coach then Hart will have failed. I don't give a damn what his name is as long as he can recruit and coach. Nothing else matters to me. I don't care if he's a mid-major guy working his way up or an established coach like Rick Byrd.

Also, Memphis didn't exactly hire a name coach in Pastner. You'd think a program like Memphis with its clout could hire someone better. Admit it. He was a reach and the jury is still out on him. I think Memphis could've done better and eventually will.

As for UT, I could care less where the guy comes from. Does he know how to coach? That's all that matters. People get worked up over stupid sh*t on here.

 

[teacherdean]

Tennessee fans should not have run off Martin in the first place. I think that his system was not far from making UT a viable program. The last coach spoiled us and we were looking for things to remain as is. 35,000 people took it upon themselves to run off CM, well he is gone. He was so happy to leave that he took a severe cut in pay. Well here we are, we get what we ask for. Some real talented coaches will not take the job based upon how the last coach was treated. Not many coaches take less to go to a so so program like Cal. Now an entire year of recruitment is lost with several more than likely following CM to Cal. What a shame after such a good year.

 

[VolArmy74]

Roy Williams, Bill Self, Steve Alford, Tom Crean, John Calipari, Rick Barnes (from Clemson), John Beilein, John Groce (not a big risk because he took Ohio to NCAAT a couple of times), Sean Miller, Mark Gottfried, Rick Pitino, Thad Matta

All with prior tournament experience and most from a major university. Florida, Duke, Michigan State, and Syracuse will either pay for a proven coach or hire someone who has ties to the school and has succeeded.

I am not necessarily looking for a coach like this, but 1.0-1.3 won't find a coach with much tournament experience. I like Michael White's bio, but only 4 years and no tournaments concern me. I wish Buzz Wiliams was still around.

In other words, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Texas and Indiana hired guys that were established at a major program.

Though Thad Matta, Sean Miller, Groce, and Alford all came from programs that don't have big financial resources.

Pitino came back as a failed NBA guy. Memphis hired an assistant when Cal left. Izzo was an assistant at Michigan State. Jamie Dixon was an assistant at Pitt. Jay Wright came from Hofstra. Bo Ryan was a coach at Wisconsin-GB. Thompson III was at Princeton. Kevin Ollie was an assistant at UConn. Gottfried was fired mid-season at Alabama before going to NC State 2 years later. Brey came to Notre Dame after a good year or two at Delaware. Marquette hires an assistant every 4-5 years when their HC moves on. Dave Rice came to UNLV as an BYU assistant. Donovan had coached 2 years at Marshall, going 35-20.

The list goes on and on. Very few programs get guys to come over from other big 6 schools. Sometimes they get lucky and catch one coming back from the NBA.

 

[VolGee4]

In other words, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Texas and Indiana hired guys that were established at a major program.

Though Thad Matta, Sean Miller, Groce, and Alford all came from programs that don't have big financial resources.

Pitino came back as a failed NBA guy. Memphis hired an assistant when Cal left. Izzo was an assistant at Michigan State. Jamie Dixon was an assistant at Pitt. Jay Wright came from Hofstra. Bo Ryan was a coach at Wisconsin-GB. Thompson III was at Princeton. Kevin Ollie was an assistant at UConn. Gottfried was fired mid-season at Alabama before going to NC State 2 years later. Brey came to Notre Dame after a good year or two at Delaware. Marquette hires an assistant every 4-5 years when their HC moves on. Dave Rice came to UNLV as an BYU assistant. Donovan had coached 2 years at Marshall, going 35-20.

The list goes on and on. Very few programs get guys to come over from other big 6 schools. Sometimes they get lucky and catch one coming back from the NBA.

Doesn't matter. There is really no more "big 6" in basketball. Basketball is different than football. Just spend some money and hire the right guy. Otherwise we will be doing this again. 5 out of our last 6. 1.0-1.3 wont get the guys from the higher level mid majors. Don't understand how people can dispute our history of hiring coaches.

 

[VolArmy74]

Doesn't matter. There is really no more "big 6" in basketball. Basketball is different than football. Just spend some money and hire the right guy. Otherwise we will be doing this again. 5 out of our last 6. 1.0-1.3 wont get the guys from the higher level mid majors. Don't understand how people can dispute our history of hiring coaches.

Actually the Big 6 is becoming more prominent than ever. It's why you see a Buzz Williams take a pay cut to go to Virginia Tech. If you're not in a power football conference, you're falling backwards in the new athletics world.

I look at our history this way, 3 of our last 4 coaches have made the Sweet 16 here. I want to say Tennessee has been to the Sweet 16 more than all but around 8-10 programs in the last 10 years. We have to change coaches more frequently than most people who have successful teams, but at least over the past 15-20 years, they are winning at a high level for the most part.

 

[VolGee4]

Actually the Big 6 is becoming more prominent than ever. It's why you see a Buzz Williams take a pay cut to go to Virginia Tech. If you're not in a power football conference, you're falling backwards in the new athletics world.

I look at our history this way, 3 of our last 4 coaches have made the Sweet 16 here. I want to say Tennessee has been to the Sweet 16 more than all but around 8-10 programs in the last 10 years. We have to change coaches more frequently than most people who have successful teams, but at least over the past 15-20 years, they are winning at a high level for the most part.

Two of them were winning at such a high level that they were run out of town, and I was called a Martin lover. Buzz Williams left for all reasons other than basketball- he would taken many jobs. Shaka Smart and Brad Stephens disagree about being in a big 6 conference. So do Kevin Ollie, Josh Pastner, and Mick Cronin.

Look, I just want our school to invest in what so many are proud of. Just spend a little more money. That's all I want. Our history at hiring has been terrible.

 

[TNnative]

Over the years since Ray Mears retires, Tennessee has hired a lot of basketball coaches, some good, some not so good. Some couldn't take the heat, at least one couldn't follow the rules or be savvy enough not to get caught, some couldn't recruit well enough, and at least one had no concept of loyalty.

However, NONE of them were the RIGHT one. That is something I place on the past ADs. And as must as some do not trust Dave Hart (probably because of his connections to Bama), this is his opportunity to get his first Basketball coach for Tennessee.

As to some of the requirements some folks prefer, I could care less. It might help if he "embraces and excites the fans", but to heck with that for me. I don't care about skin color, fashion choices, funny quips, or any other meaningless traits some seem obsessed with.

I want the right guy. Someone who wins over high quality recruits, keeps them away from trouble, and can make good game time decisions. And if he isn't one to argue with refs, he has an assistant who will ( like Mears had Stu Aberdeen). Go get him, Hart.

 

[DocVol]

And it's playing out exactly so.

This should not surprise anyone.