Tennessee in the SEC under Bruce Pearl

#26
#26
ThatVolGuy said:
http://www.volnation.com/forum/tennessee-vols-basketball/68238-sec-wins-since-bp-hired.html

Perhaps my thread died because our resident Gators fan didn't grace it with his presence. :)
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Sigh.

Folks are misunderstanding me completely, but I guess that is my fault. I am NOT saying that what UT has done under Pearl isn't impressive. It certainly is and he, and UT, deserve to be recognized for that.

What I AM saying is that basketball is different than football because of the NCAA tournament. The tournament is what its ALL about.

Whereas winning an SEC football title ordinarily places you in the elite of college football, winning the SEC means you made the field of 65, but that's about it. You could win a hundred straight SEC titles and no one outside of the SEC would give a rat's ass if you could never get out of the Sweet Sixteen. That's just a fact.
 
#27
#27
lawgator1 said:
Sigh.

Folks are misunderstanding me completely, but I guess that is my fault. I am NOT saying that what UT has done under Pearl isn't impressive. It certainly is and he, and UT, deserve to be recognized for that.
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Okay. Thanks.

What I AM saying is that basketball is different than football because of the NCAA tournament. The tournament is what its ALL about.
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Did anybody dispute this, or is this seriously the first thing that came to your mind when you opened this thread? What you've pointed out is obvious to everybody who pays attention to college sports.

Whereas winning an SEC football title ordinarily places you in the elite of college football, winning the SEC means you made the field of 65, but that's about it. You could win a hundred straight SEC titles and no one outside of the SEC would give a rat's ass if you could never get out of the Sweet Sixteen. That's just a fact.
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So, the most salient point of your post is that you have to do well in the tournament or nobody will give you much credit. Once again, nothing groundbreaking. I'm not sure why it's particularly relevant to this thread, outside of the fact that it appears you were searching for a way to rain on the parade.
 
#28
#28
LawVol said:
Pretty remarkable what Bruce Pearl has accomplished in the SEC since being named head coach. Take a look at the conference records and see what I mean:

UTK
05/06: 12-4
06/07: 10-6
07/08: 14-2
08/09: 10-5 (before Sundays game v. Alabama)

TOTAL: 46-17

UK:
05/06: 9-7
06/07: 9-7
07/08: 12-4
08/09: 8-7

TOTAL: 38-25

UF:
05/06: 10-6
06/07: 13-3
07/08: 8-8
08/09: 8-7

TOTAL: 39-24

Now obviously we still haven't won an SEC tournament title or gotten as far as we had hoped in the NCAA but, like Hat said, it's hard to argue with winning the SEC East 3 out of the last 4 years.


*As an aside, I got the inspiration for looking these records up from Clay Travis's Mailbag. If you haven't ever read his site, check it out: Clay Travis :: Claynation.
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ThatVolGuy said:
Okay. Thanks.



Did anybody dispute this, or is this seriously the first thing that came to your mind when you opened this thread? What you've pointed out is obvious to everybody who pays attention to college sports.



So, the most salient point of your post is that you have to do well in the tournament or nobody will give you much credit. Once again, nothing groundbreaking. I'm not sure why it's particularly relevant to this thread, outside of the fact that it appears you were searching for a way to rain on the parade.
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ThatVolGuy, you state that the conference-versus-national comparison was started by me and that I made it just to "rain on the parade."

B.S. Look at the first post. The VERY first post was about how well Pearl has done in the SEC and that its okay that you haven't done anything in the tournament, and I quote, because:

Now obviously we still haven't won an SEC tournament title or gotten as far as we had hoped in the NCAA but, like Hat said, it's hard to argue with winning the SEC East 3 out of the last 4 years.


Well, guess what. It isn't that hard to argue with because the measure of success in college basketball in the SEC is not conference championships, its performance in the NCAAs. While winning the ACC or the Big East might be important, winning the SEC, especially this year, means next to squat.

So, perhaps instead of painting me as raining on the parade, perhaps you need to ask yourself whether there ought to be a parade in the first place.
 
#29
#29
lawgator1 said:
B.S. Look at the first post. The VERY first post was about how well Pearl has done in the SEC and that its okay that you haven't done anything in the tournament, and I quote, because:

Now obviously we still haven't won an SEC tournament title or gotten as far as we had hoped in the NCAA but, like Hat said, it's hard to argue with winning the SEC East 3 out of the last 4 years.
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Now wait a minute LawGator, (as an aside - I know you had it first but LawVol just sounds so much more eloquent than LawGator) you're digging a little too deep into my post.

We can all agree Coach Pearl has had success at UT compared to years past and compared to other coaches in the SEC from 2005-present. I never said that it's ok we haven't performed well in the SEC tourney. And what exactly do we get for sweeping the Gators the year they won the title? Nothing.

I was simply putting numbers on the page to look at compared to other teams in the league. And is the league down this year? Absolutely. But a mythical eastern division championship is a still a mythical eastern division championship. In actuality, it means nothing, except that we were better than the Gators and the 'Cats during the season. And that's something I can always live with.

Good luck in the NCAA's... oh wait. Right. Sorry.
 
#30
#30
LawVol said:
Pretty remarkable what Bruce Pearl has accomplished in the SEC since being named head coach. Take a look at the conference records and see what I mean:

UTK
05/06: 12-4
06/07: 10-6
07/08: 14-2
08/09: 10-5 (before Sundays game v. Alabama)

TOTAL: 46-17

UK:
05/06: 9-7
06/07: 9-7
07/08: 12-4
08/09: 8-7

TOTAL: 38-25

UF:
05/06: 10-6
06/07: 13-3
07/08: 8-8
08/09: 8-7

TOTAL: 39-24

Now obviously we still haven't won an SEC tournament title or gotten as far as we had hoped in the NCAA but, like Hat said, it's hard to argue with winning the SEC East 3 out of the last 4 years.


*As an aside, I got the inspiration for looking these records up from Clay Travis's Mailbag. If you haven't ever read his site, check it out: Clay Travis :: Claynation.
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Nice post, Clay.
 
#31
#31
LawVol said:
Now wait a minute LawGator, (as an aside - I know you had it first but LawVol just sounds so much more eloquent than LawGator) you're digging a little too deep into my post.

We can all agree Coach Pearl has had success at UT compared to years past and compared to other coaches in the SEC from 2005-present. I never said that it's ok we haven't performed well in the SEC tourney. And what exactly do we get for sweeping the Gators the year they won the title? Nothing.

I was simply putting numbers on the page to look at compared to other teams in the league. And is the league down this year? Absolutely. But a mythical eastern division championship is a still a mythical eastern division championship. In actuality, it means nothing, except that we were better than the Gators and the 'Cats during the season. And that's something I can always live with.

Good luck in the NCAA's... oh wait. Right. Sorry.
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LOL, it would certainly appear that you got me dead to rights on the "good luck in the NCAAs" point. I think Florida has to beat Kentucky and win two in the SEC tournament to even think about getting in (and probably has to reach the conference finals).

As to your other points, I agree with you for the most part. Obviously, Pearl has had great success in the SEC.

I guess my main point is that its regular season success and that regular season success in college basketball, particularly in the SEC, is just not what I care about. I care about performance in the NCAAs and that's just about it. The fact that we don't get in poretty much ends the season for me.

Actually, not pretty much. That IS the end of the season if you don't get in.

And hanging SEC banners makes me yawn. I want Sweet 16s or better every year. I see no reason why my school should not be competitive at that level and if we go a number of years without that, I'll be grumbling.

(Obviously, Donovan has some political capital to spend on this for a few years yet.)
 
#34
#34
lawgator, i just want to be the first to saw that I like your new avator better than your old one. :eek:hmy:
 
#37
#37
lawgator1 said:
Well, guess what. It isn't that hard to argue with because the measure of success in college basketball in the SEC is not conference championships, its performance in the NCAAs. While winning the ACC or the Big East might be important, winning the SEC, especially this year, means next to squat.
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You speaking for me or just yourself? Because for me UT sports is all about SEC championships. Bowl games and post season tournaments are a fun extension but I have no delusions of winning BCS championships or NCAA basketball tournaments. Those are all about luck, matchups and individual agendas aligning. And I really don't care about the SEC tournament. I frankly don't like that it exists and has watered down the perception of regular season accomplishment (as is evident in your post). Guess I grew up in a different era.
 
#38
#38
lawgator1 said:
As to your other points, I agree with you for the most part. Obviously, Pearl has had great success in the SEC.

I guess my main point is that its regular season success and that regular season success in college basketball, particularly in the SEC, is just not what I care about. I care about performance in the NCAAs and that's just about it. The fact that we don't get in poretty much ends the season for me.
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Agreed. Regular season numbers are fun to play with when we've had success, but I'd trade it in for championships (or deep tourney runs) any day.

But as a Vol fan talking to a Gator, I still like those regular season numbers.
 
#39
#39
LG's point was that regular season success in SEC football is MUCH MUCH more important than regular season success in SEC basketball. A coach can have mediocre regular seasons and have deep tourney runs and be successful (i.e. Izzo @ MSU just won his first regular season Big 10 since 1999 - does anyone doubt he's a great coach?). Regular season is great if it comes with tourney success. Regular season is good without it.
 
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#40
#40
BigPapaVol said:
Those first two UK comparative seasons got a coach fired.
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UK values deep NCAA tournament runs over routinely beating up on meager conference competition.

Nice regular season records against the Auburns and Ole Miss's of the world don't mean anything if you don't make rattle off a few Ws in The Show.
 
#41
#41
Having lived through seasons where one always wondered whether we would get a bid to the NCAA, like Florida the last two years and Ky this year, I am extremely glad that we have had good SEC seasons and made it to the big dance without worry. After a few more years of seasons like Florida has had the last two years (maybe even after this year), your attitude will change. Even mighty UK seems to be valuing a good season after BG's coaching this year.
 
#42
#42
shyster said:
Having lived through seasons where one always wondered whether we would get a bid to the NCAA, like Florida the last two years and Ky this year, I am extremely glad that we have had good SEC seasons and made it to the big dance without worry. After a few more years of seasons like Florida has had the last two years (maybe even after this year), your attitude will change. Even mighty UK seems to be valuing a good season after BG's coaching this year.
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There is merit to your observation in that getting in is the first hurdle and that Florida's success a couple of years ago has us fans pointed towards at least the second weekend of the NCAAs as benchmark for a good year.
 
#43
#43
In the end, you are not even in the top 16 (by the standard which college bball teams are measured) unless you make it to the second weekend. Whereas, you can have a stellar regular season and crap the bed in postseason in football and still be highly thought of/ranked (i.e. Bama this year in football).
 
#44
#44
Oldblood said:
In the end, you are not even in the top 16 (by the standard which college bball teams are measured) unless you make it to the second weekend. Whereas, you can have a stellar regular season and crap the bed in postseason in football and still be highly thought of/ranked (i.e. Bama this year in football).
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Right, and my point is that this is even more so in the SEC. You win the SEC in football then you have really accomplished something of note, nationally. But win the SEC in bball just doesn't matter because all national eyes are then focused on the tournament.
 
#45
#45
lawgator1 said:
Right, and my point is that this is even more so in the SEC. You win the SEC in football then you have really accomplished something of note, nationally. But win the SEC in bball just doesn't matter because all national eyes are then focused on the tournament.
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I'll agree that nationally for basketball its all about the NCAA tournament. Though to me it seems getting in is valued just as much as advancement for the majority. I guess I am a dinosaur valuing an SEC regular season basketball title the most.
 
#46
#46
ZZ13 said:
I'll agree that nationally for basketball its all about the NCAA tournament. Though to me it seems getting in is valued just as much as advancement for the majority. I guess I am a dinosaur valuing an SEC regular season basketball title the most.
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Then I am similarly a relic. Getting in is priority one. Not getting in means failure for the season. And ergo the Gators have failed.
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#47
#47
SEC Championships are great and all, and they are important, but if you don't follow it up with a good tournament then it leaves a bad aftertaste.

Last year is a good example. One of our best SEC seasons ever, yet come tourney time, we wilted and that Louisville game was pretty painful.
 
#48
#48
VolsSportsFan said:
SEC Championships are great and all, and they are important, but if you don't follow it up with a good tournament then it leaves a bad aftertaste.

Last year is a good example. One of our best SEC seasons ever, yet come tourney time, we wilted and that Louisville game was pretty painful.
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In my estimation, the national champion tends to come from one of two camps. Either they are a good team that stays injury free and peaks at the right time, or they are a team with simpy excellent players, that ratches it up a notch or two come tourney time. You rarely see one team dominate, from regular season start to finish.
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#49
#49
The reality of it is that all teams with the exception of perhaps the final four, maybe even some of them, are left with a bad taste in their mouth. That's the reality of tournament play. "if we could just have won that last game......"
 
#50
#50
lawgator1 said:
In my estimation, the national champion tends to come from one of two camps. Either they are a good team that stays injury free and peaks at the right time, or they are a team with simpy excellent players, that ratches it up a notch or two come tourney time. You rarely see one team dominate, from regular season start to finish.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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That analysis explains why UT fans are now energized, come March. For the first time all year, the Vols are playing fast-paced and fun basketball, with some important wins late in the season. Maybe this "peaking" notion is silly, maybe it isn't. . . .but we're all excited that it may carry into the Dance.

I agree that the SEC tourney is relatively unimportant. While it would be nice to win one (for a change), we all know where the big chips lie. I'd just like for the Vols to have a good showing and continue to mature in preparation for the grand finale.
 
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