Sweeping Sexual Assault Suit Filed Against UT

[zeppelin128]

I'm concerned about a judge being appointed by Cheek, that is a clear conflict of interest in my opinion. Otherwise, the idea that a constitutional right to counsel should be limited or even not allowed to the accused is extremely troubling. These are serious crimes with life changing consequences; all parties involved should have access to competent representation. Everyone should be on an even playing field in terms of resources available for the hearing. After doing some more reading, I think the wisest course of action for any victim of sexual assault would be to go straight to KPD.

 

[RikidyBones]

I'm concerned about a judge being appointed by Cheek, that is a clear conflict of interest in my opinion. Otherwise, the idea that a constitutional right to counsel should be limited or even not allowed to the accused is extremely troubling. These are serious crimes with life changing consequences; all parties involved should have access to competent representation. Everyone should be on an even playing field in terms of resources available for the hearing. After doing some more reading, I think the wisest course of action for any victim of sexual assault would be to go straight to KPD.

I dont think that fact is that damning. Someone has to appoint a judge. Cheek should be unbiased himself so there shouldn't be an issue with who he appoints unless he is purposefully backing athletes regardless of circumstance. Jmo though. who's to say that the hiring process of kpd can't be shoved in the same manner?

 

[newyorkvol]

I'm concerned about a judge being appointed by Cheek, that is a clear conflict of interest in my opinion. Otherwise, the idea that a constitutional right to counsel should be limited or even not allowed to the accused is extremely troubling. These are serious crimes with life changing consequences; all parties involved should have access to competent representation. Everyone should be on an even playing field in terms of resources available for the hearing. After doing some more reading, I think the wisest course of action for any victim of sexual assault would be to go straight to KPD.

Not sure if the old policy read the same way, but the new policy states that the accuser has the right to request a change of the administrative judge.

 

[Iam4utalways]

Tread lightly folks, this is a sensative subject, that could make someone look like a real Jackwagon. I don't know anything about it at all, but I do hope justice is served.

Don't sexually assault anyone.

Don't cover up sexual assault.

If you get assaulted, go to the police.

 

[GoMocs]

UTC has been down this road in the recent past. A wrestler was accused of rape. In that case the young women did not go to the Chattanooga police, but after a week or something like that went to the school to file a complaint. Under Title IX they held a "trial" and the wrestler was basically acquitted. But she appealed, won and the wrestler was "convicted" and kicked out of school, with articles calling him a rapist. He has appealed in the "real" courts and as of now has a verdict supporting him which basically said the school court was basically considering him guilty and he had to prove his innocence. Meanwhile the young woman is suing the school under Title IX. You can google this and find articles, webpages, and editorials devoted to both sides of this.

Rape is a very serious charge, IMO way too serious to be handled by a school kangaroo court, as it is now under Title IX. The accuser should have to go the normal route, go to the "real" police and file charges. With the school trials they don't have the rigorous rules on evidence and witness testimony. Rape is too serious of a charge to have a kangaroo court IMO.

All this being said, if rape happened, somebody should be in prison.

 

[jhcrane14]

Finebaum just covered this saying a Tennessee football player was assaulted by his own teammates for helping the rape victim. Not good!!!

 

[terrypedigo]

We are getting good and some won't to take us down, we are family we are TENNESSEE, ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff these ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffer's GO VOLS BUCK BAMA

 

[ptcarter]

UTC has been down this road in the recent past. A wrestler was accused of rape. In that case the young women did not go to the Chattanooga police, but after a week or something like that went to the school to file a complaint. Under Title IX they held a "trial" and the wrestler was basically acquitted. But she appealed, won and the wrestler was "convicted" and kicked out of school, with articles calling him a rapist. He has appealed in the "real" courts and as of now has a verdict supporting him which basically said the school court was basically considering him guilty and he had to prove his innocence. Meanwhile the young woman is suing the school under Title IX. You can google this and find articles, webpages, and editorials devoted to both sides of this.

Rape is a very serious charge, IMO way too serious to be handled by a school kangaroo court, as it is now under Title IX. The accuser should have to go the normal route, go to the "real" police and file charges. With the school trials they don't have the rigorous rules on evidence and witness testimony. Rape is too serious of a charge to have a kangaroo court IMO.

All this being said, if rape happened, somebody should be in prison.

I think you nailed it.

 

[therealitytheory]

Tread lightly folks, this is a sensative subject, that could make someone look like a real Jackwagon. I don't know anything about it at all, but I do hope justice is served.

Same here, all I know is what I read in the KNS.

One thing that stood out to me, though - during the preliminary hearings for A.J. and Williams last summer, there was a judgement made about whether or not social media evidence would be allowed in the case. The defense felt that various tweets and posts helped their cause, but in the end the prosecution won and the social media stuff was ruled out.

I'm still not clear on why the judge ruled that way, but perhaps the civil case has a different standard and the social media messages will be a factor (one way or the other).

 

[I40flyer]

I've read where some rape victims, are scared, ashamed, and mentally upset, so much so, many don't report it for week, months and many not at all. If this is true, all those dismissing the "victims" as gold diggers, because they did not go directly to KPD, rather than UTPD, and demand a rape kit etc., maybe jumping the gun. Rape in Tennessee, not just UT is poorly investigated, and often not at all. In Memphis 1000s of rape kits went completely un-processed for years, just stacked in some back room at MPD! Google, you'll be amazed. If she didn't go to the police-right now, no rape happened. If she didn't go to the hospital for a rape kit-right now no rape happened. Are idiotic thoughts-and because of these type of thoughts-rapists walk our streets.

 

[vol_in_ar]

UTC has been down this road in the recent past. A wrestler was accused of rape. In that case the young women did not go to the Chattanooga police, but after a week or something like that went to the school to file a complaint. Under Title IX they held a "trial" and the wrestler was basically acquitted. But she appealed, won and the wrestler was "convicted" and kicked out of school, with articles calling him a rapist. He has appealed in the "real" courts and as of now has a verdict supporting him which basically said the school court was basically considering him guilty and he had to prove his innocence. Meanwhile the young woman is suing the school under Title IX. You can google this and find articles, webpages, and editorials devoted to both sides of this.

Rape is a very serious charge, IMO way too serious to be handled by a school kangaroo court, as it is now under Title IX. The accuser should have to go the normal route, go to the "real" police and file charges. With the school trials they don't have the rigorous rules on evidence and witness testimony. Rape is too serious of a charge to have a kangaroo court IMO.

All this being said, if rape happened, somebody should be in prison.

Very well said
University's are in the business of Education, they shouldn't be responsible for a community's legal process

That's what the police, DA and courts are for

 

[Plano Vol]

Finebaum just covered this saying a Tennessee football player was assaulted by his own teammates for helping the rape victim. Not good!!!

Didn't I read in here that the football player in question denied that he had been assaulted by his teammates.

 

[GoMocs]

I've read where some rape victims, are scared, ashamed, and mentally upset, so much so, many don't report it for week, months and many not at all. If this is true, all those dismissing the "victims" as gold diggers, because they did not go directly to KPD, rather than UTPD, and demand a rape kit etc., maybe jumping the gun. Rape in Tennessee, not just UT is poorly investigated, and often not at all. In Memphis 1000s of rape kits went completely un-processed for years, just stacked in some back room at MPD! Google, you'll be amazed. If she didn't go to the police-right now, no rape happened. If she didn't go to the hospital for a rape kit-right now no rape happened. Are idiotic thoughts-and because of these type of thoughts-rapists walk our streets.

But should a student be labeled a rapist for an accusation that is lodged against him in a school court system? A court system that is no where near what is demanded by our legal system? If a student is convicted in a school court he/she would carry the rapist brand on them the rest of their lives. Imagine a school where the accused might the star starting QB, can you imagine the pressure behind the scenes to acquit him? Is this doing the victim justice? Schools are not a justice system, they are not courts of law. A crime that can imprison somebody for decades DESERVES the full protection provided by a real court of law. Can you imagine being tried for a crime where the people testifying do not have the crime of perjury attached to them if they lie?

 

[I40flyer]

[QUOTE=GoMocs;12396392]But should a student be labeled a rapist for an accusation that is lodged against him in a school court system? A court system that is no where near what is demanded by our legal system? If a student is convicted in a school court he/she would carry the rapist brand on them the rest of their lives. Imagine a school where the accused might the star starting QB, can you imagine the pressure behind the scenes to acquit him? Is this doing the victim justice? Schools are not a justice system, they are not courts of law. A crime that can imprison somebody for decades DESERVES the full protection provided by a real court of law. Can you imagine being tried for a crime where the people testifying do not have the crime of perjury attached to them if they lie?[/QUOTE]


Hell no!!!! In fact there shouldn't be a "school court system" to start with!!!! UT has it's own sworn police dept, they do not need their own courts. If half of what is alleged regarding the appointment of the "Judge" is true, any right thinking person would be uncomfortable-at the very least.:hi:
UT has a Police Dept, a special judge, why not a "special jail"?

 

[therealitytheory]

Very well said
University's are in the business of Education, they shouldn't be responsible for a community's legal process

That's what the police, DA and courts are for

I read the account in the KNS of an alleged victim stating she took the matter to the university instead of the police because she only wanted the player kicked off the team. She didn't get her wish as it turned out.

 

[GoMocs]

When I was researching the UTC wrestler incident, I found this discussion by a woman who works in the court system:

"First let me say I don't know if this young man is guilty or not. It is scary to me that someones life can be forever altered on an accusation that is not held or even presented in a court of law. Believe me, I am very sensitive to the rights of sexual assault victims, but I am also sensitive to the rights of the accused. The judicial system is set up to give each litigant an equal footing before the law, you know, that whole justice is blind thing. This "playing court" puts a lot of power in the hands of one person or a panel of people that are not bound by the same standards of evidence that you must have for a fair trial. This either works in favor of the accused who may be very popular and a big draw for sporting events that are a revenue source for the school, that pays the salary of the person making the decision. This is only one example of a clear conflict of interest. It could also work too much in the favor of the accuser, by pressure, internal or external, being placed on the person to be overly sympathetic to an accusation in order for the school to prove it cares about sexual assault victims. Either way, there is too much room for undue influence and corruption. Also, what if someone is just angry at another person and decides they are going to make their life difficult. This puts a lot of power in their hands to be able to have a dramatic negative impact on a persons life without having to present evidence that rises to standards acceptable in a court of law. It also does not afford the accused the opportunity to face their accuser and present their own evidenced or refute the presented evidence. It leaves the accused in a limbo of suspicion forever. The accuser does have recourse though, its called the judicial system. If they choose not to report or file charges that is their decision, but to bypass the legal system in this way should not be allowed. I know it is certainly not fool proof, but at least there are set standards that help to make a level playing field. The schools should leave this stuff to the proper authorities. "

 

[mscelinaVol]

TERRIBLE! May you never be the actual judge in court! There should be no injustice PERIOD

LOL You do realize that's basically the basis of our "innocent til proven guilty" defense sysyem, yes? Far better to protect the rights of the guilty than to unjustly convict one innocent person? Interesting that you find it so terrible to afford the same protection to the victims.

All that being said...

Now that I have read the lawsuit in its entirety, it seems to me there are two separate and distinct goals within it.

First off, there seems to be a definite need for UT to reevaluate its adjudication system for all students involving absolute equitable treatment in cases that come up before it. It is essential that the UT administration be proactive and aggressive in doing so in response to this lawsuit

But secondly, there seems to be a strong disconnect between thatfirst (admirable)goal and the accusations laid against CBJ and the football program in particular. First off, someone is pretty stupid to say the Williams/Johnson case was "not addressed" and in the very next sentence contradict that by stating they were "immediately suspended", which without charges or a confession is the limit of what the program could do. Second, the "culture of rape" isn't established by playing a Lil John. 10 second byte in Neyland Stadium on 3rd downs. If someone is going to claim popular music creates such a culture then every sports team from pee wee to pro is guilty, plus radio stations, tv commercials, danceclubs, etc should be named too. Just ridiculous. And third, the whole line of accusation just seems to be seriously stretched. The issues cited seem to stem from players who are no longer with the program--except one--and have already been dealt with. So how can the program be encouraging a culture of rape when the involved players have already been punished?

And yet, the one asllegation giving me pause involves the alleged assaults on Bowles by players with the coaches' knowledge. What is alleged in the lawsuit regarding Bowles is a complete 180 from WHAT BOWLES SAID AT THE TIME. This concerns me a lot because I have a hard time believing such an about face unless he has some evidence to back that up. If that allegation turns out to be true, UT will get slammed. Could be a disaster.

If it's false, it could destroy the credibility of the plaintiffs who probably have a legit beef with the adjudication system.

I think in the end the football program and staff will be a non-factor UNLESS the Bowles allegations have some merit to them. I think UT will be forced to revamp its adjudication system. And I think that the attenpted connection between the "culture of rape" and the football program is a blatant PR ploy to draw national attention to the lawsuit. The actual NAMING of Lil Jon really raises major red flags for me. And in the end, I am pretty darn disgusted about the decision to do that.

At any rate, that's my take on the meat of the situation after reading the entire lawsuit for myself. For what it's worth.

 

[chargervol]

Very well said
University's are in the business of Education, they shouldn't be responsible for a community's legal process

That's what the police, DA and courts are for

I haven't said much about the issue but want to lend my support to your post.
I've been surprised with the number of posters on here saying Hart/Cheek/University didn't do enough or look suspicious. Posting that they need to take responsibility.
Well our legal system may not be perfect, no system is. But we have a system in place that makes the process as painless as possible given the circumstances.

You go to the PROPER authorities, file your report, do your interview and test kit. Then let the authorities get their butts to work on your behalf.
You can even go for a restraining order and private investigation in addition, if you so choose.

I'm truly sorry for any victim to which any of these things did/may have happened to.
But I also find it a little hypocritical for so many to keep bringing up personal responsibility of those that shouldn't be involved to begin with, while the alternative for the alleged victim seems a much better route.

If you truly want justice, seems worth taking the time to contact the authorities yourself. I know if it was my daughter, I would be solely interested in getting a dangerous person of the street with our justice system.

 

[KBVol]

I think you nailed it.

Absolutely did.

 

[GoMocs]

As I said in another thread, what did Drae think when asked if he was "assaulted"? Don't many of you think assualt means he was struck or beat? Well it doesn't.


"In some jurisdictions assault is defined as the threat of bodily harm that reasonably causes fear of harm in the victim while battery is the actual physical impact on another person. If the victim has not actually been touched, but only threatened (or someone attempted to touch them), then the crime is assault."

So, Drae could have been thinking they are asking me if I was hit or struck, not if he was threatened.

 

[CountVolcula]

The lesson here for you guys in college

Study books instead of women

Trouble in those tight pants

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Vol Nation is probably the most well versed fan base in the SEC on Title IX and victims rights laws at this point.

Not a good thing.

 

[olbemw7]

“Athletes knew in advance that UT would: support them even after a complaint of sexual assault; arrange for top quality legal representation; and then direct them to the hearing procedure that denies victims the right to a hearing and to the same equal procedural, hearing, and process rights as given to perpetrators of rape and sexual assault,” the plaintiffs said in their lawsuit.

I honestly can't tell up from down when lawyers talk. People getting directed to the hearing procedure that denies the hearing procedure?

 

[newyorkvol]

LOL You do realize that's basically the basis of our "innocent til proven guilty" defense sysyem, yes? Far better to protect the rights of the guilty than to unjustly convict one innocent person? Interesting that you find it so terrible to afford the same protection to the victims.

All that being said...

Now that I have read the lawsuit in its entirety, it seems to me there are two separate and distinct goals within it.

First off, there seems to be a definite need for UT to reevaluate its adjudication system for all students involving absolute equitable treatment in cases that come up before it. It is essential that the UT administration be proactive and aggressive in doing so in response to this lawsuit

But secondly, there seems to be a strong disconnect between thatfirst (admirable)goal and the accusations laid against CBJ and the football program in particular. First off, someone is pretty stupid to say the Williams/Johnson case was "not addressed" and in the very next sentence contradict that by stating they were "immediately suspended", which without charges or a confession is the limit of what the program could do. Second, the "culture of rape" isn't established by playing a Lil John. 10 second byte in Neyland Stadium on 3rd downs. If someone is going to claim popular music creates such a culture then every sports team from pee wee to pro is guilty, plus radio stations, tv commercials, danceclubs, etc should be named too. Just ridiculous. And third, the whole line of accusation just seems to be seriously stretched. The issues cited seem to stem from players who are no longer with the program--except one--and have already been dealt with. So how can the program be encouraging a culture of rape when the involved players have already been punished?

And yet, the one asllegation giving me pause involves the alleged assaults on Bowles by players with the coaches' knowledge. What is alleged in the lawsuit regarding Bowles is a complete 180 from WHAT BOWLES SAID AT THE TIME. This concerns me a lot because I have a hard time believing such an about face unless he has some evidence to back that up. If that allegation turns out to be true, UT will get slammed. Could be a disaster.

If it's false, it could destroy the credibility of the plaintiffs who probably have a legit beef with the adjudication system.

I think in the end the football program and staff will be a non-factor UNLESS the Bowles allegations have some merit to them. I think UT will be forced to revamp its adjudication system. And I think that the attenpted connection between the "culture of rape" and the football program is a blatant PR ploy to draw national attention to the lawsuit. The actual NAMING of Lil Jon really raises major red flags for me. And in the end, I am pretty darn disgusted about the decision to do that.

At any rate, that's my take on the meat of the situation after reading the entire lawsuit for myself. For what it's worth.

Thanks for your synopsis. I have yet to finish the whole thing. I did try to find what the university procedures were at the time of the incidents, but came up cold. I did find the current, revised as of August 2015, procedures which seem to address many of the concerns brought up in the suit.

 

[Boca Vol]

I honestly can't tell up from down when lawyers talk. People getting directed to the hearing procedure that denies the hearing procedure?

The athletes aren't the victims in your quoted post.