Spread offenses in the SEC

#1
rjd970

rjd970

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#1
Seems to me that this system only works in the SEC with a freak at QB. UF worked it pretty well with Tebow and now Auburn is doing the same thing with Cam. Without those type players behind center it doesn't work too well.

Am I the only one who thinks Meyer's success at Utah and Bowling Green were because those type offenses work there, but in the SEC, if you don't have the very right mix of personnel it flops? Urbie has to see this happening, and I bet he steps down and "retires" at the end of the season.

Look at what Mullen did today...did not pass it for the last 43 minutes of the game. He realizes that without the right guy behind center (and supporting personnel) the strong running, power type offense work best. Saban has known this forever and recruits accordingly. Mahlzan is in his heyday right now, but if he were to stay at Auburn and keep forcing this type offense without a QB like Newton I bet he would see a similar downfall.

Auburn better enjoy this while they can, and as far as UF goes, I hope you enjoyed it while you could. It is about to get a lot worse.
 
#2
#2
Urban's offense is no different than others. If you don't have the right personnel for your system, it will be difficult to win. The baffling part is this usually happens when new coaches take over programs that ran a different system previously. Meyer has established his system and recruiting over multiple years now, and out of the blue his offense looks horrendous.
 
#3
#3
Yeah, but how good is that system if you basically need a freak at QB for it to work against high competition week in and week out? I would say that the naysayers about the spread in the SEC weren't completely wrong. They were wrong that it can't work, but they were right in that it isn't preferable.
 
#4
#4
Look at Nebraska in their glory days...All of their qb's were throwaways nobody else wanted...Eric Crouch was like a 2 star out of high school....Didn't have much of a arm but had good running abilities....Perfect for an option style team...I miss that style of football...It's a forgotten art and deadly if run correctly...As far as UF goes, Brantley is a pro style qb in a spread option system....Not a good mix at all...With all the hype around him it reminds me of all the hype with us and Crompton....That was a nightmare for us and now it is UF's cross to bear.
 
#5
#5
VOLnMiami said:
Look at Nebraska in their glory days...All of their qb's were throwaways nobody else wanted...Eric Crouch was like a 2 star out of high school....Didn't have much of a arm but had good running abilities....Perfect for an option style team...I miss that style of football...It's a forgotten art and deadly if run correctly...As far as UF goes, Brantley is a pro style qb in a spread option system....Not a good mix at all...With all the hype around him it reminds me of all the hype with us and Crompton....That was a nightmare for us and now it is UF's cross to bear.
Click to expand...

I'm still not sure how that guy won a Heisman.
 
#8
#8
Woody Dantzler put up far more impressive numbers that year. Threw for 2,500 and rushed for over 1,000.
 
#9
#9
Dantzler had a great year, but crouch was on at the time a 1 loss team that was going to the national championship.
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#10
#10
Does anyone think Meyer was trying to prove that he can run an offense with a pro-style QB in Brantley? I think Burton fits their offense much, much better.
 
#11
#11
Brantley will probably be benched eventually if they keep playing this style of offense. Any pro style QB's considering Florida should watch that offense and think twice about going there. Brantley will be the example of why not to go there.
 
#13
#13
Seems to be working for Pinkle and MU, although no one will mistake Blaine Gabbert for Tim Tebow.
 
#15
#15
rjd970 said:
Seems to me that this system only works in the SEC with a freak at QB. UF worked it pretty well with Tebow and now Auburn is doing the same thing with Cam. Without those type players behind center it doesn't work too well.

Am I the only one who thinks Meyer's success at Utah and Bowling Green were because those type offenses work there, but in the SEC, if you don't have the very right mix of personnel it flops? Urbie has to see this happening, and I bet he steps down and "retires" at the end of the season.

Look at what Mullen did today...did not pass it for the last 43 minutes of the game. He realizes that without the right guy behind center (and supporting personnel) the strong running, power type offense work best. Saban has known this forever and recruits accordingly. Mahlzan is in his heyday right now, but if he were to stay at Auburn and keep forcing this type offense without a QB like Newton I bet he would see a similar downfall.

Auburn better enjoy this while they can, and as far as UF goes, I hope you enjoyed it while you could. It is about to get a lot worse.
Click to expand...

So what you're saying is...an offense is only successful if it's built around the personnel who are expected to run it.

Well, you're at least farther ahead than Bill Callahan has ever been.
 
#17
#17
Urban will be fine. I think he's delegated too much responsibility to Adazzio following his health problems. Adazzio sucks, so that's a problem. He needs to correct that. Also, Brantley is doing OK, but I'm not sure Urban's system will ever work with that kind of guy. The recent problems with Demps and Rainey have certainly hurt things, as well. Moving the best OL you have to center and having him fail terribly at it is another problem.

Kicker is also hurt.
 
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#18
#18
VolBuck24 said:
How so?
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Click to expand...

Its an offense that ill prepares players for the NFL, especially QBs.

Have you noticed how poor the NFL play has became in the last couple of years?

Route running, reading defensive formations, etc. Its pretty pathetic watching these players from spread offenses adapting to a "real" offense.

Other than that, its just boring watching a QB drop back, only to run it 18 times a game. If I wanted that, I would watch a High School game.
 
#19
#19
Ohio Vol said:
So what you're saying is...an offense is only successful if it's built around the personnel who are expected to run it.

Well, you're at least farther ahead than Bill Callahan has ever been.
Click to expand...

Good ol' Bill.

He's part of the NFL my way or the highway -- schematic advantage *cough* Charlie Weis crowd.

Denny Green fell for it, Callahan, Weis, Terry Shea, Sylvester Croom.. the list goes on and on. Even Bill Walsh fell for it.

I don't know how any reasonable coach can expect to go to college and expect college kids, let alone students, to learn 600 page playbooks with 16 personnel groupings, 70 formations, and 400 plays.

I mean honestly, some of the NFL playbooks look like something straight out of an MIT course with NASA play calls: YouTube - Jon Gruden Wired

The real test of a good coach is adapting to the personnel he has and simplifying the complicated. When Norm Chow was at BYU/USC he had 12 pass plays and 5 run plays, coincidentally, Mumme took all of those plays and went out of shotgun with four wide sets. Air Raid teams put up 50+ points a game running Shallow/Mesh/Y Cross and bubble screens. They run few things, and run them exceptionally well.
 
#20
#20
CountVolcula said:
Its an offense that ill prepares players for the NFL, especially QBs.

Have you noticed how poor the NFL play has became in the last couple of years?

Route running, reading defensive formations, etc. Its pretty pathetic watching these players from spread offenses adapting to a "real" offense.

Other than that, its just boring watching a QB drop back, only to run it 18 times a game. If I wanted that, I would watch a High School game.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's killing the game at all. I think pro teams will eventually include more spread concepts into their offense. I don't ever see it becoming the norm, but enough to decrease their learning curve. As fas as college its my favorite type of offense. Floridas offense with the right qb is fun to watch. Same with auburn now that they have newton.
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#21
#21
CountVolcula said:
Its an offense that ill prepares players for the NFL, especially QBs.

Have you noticed how poor the NFL play has became in the last couple of years?

Route running, reading defensive formations, etc. Its pretty pathetic watching these players from spread offenses adapting to a "real" offense.

Other than that, its just boring watching a QB drop back, only to run it 18 times a game. If I wanted that, I would watch a High School game.
Click to expand...

I agree with a lot of this. Watching the QB run all thyme stinks.
 
#22
#22
bam15 said:
Good ol' Bill.

He's part of the NFL my way or the highway -- schematic advantage *cough* Charlie Weis crowd.

Denny Green fell for it, Callahan, Weis, Terry Shea, Sylvester Croom.. the list goes on and on. Even Bill Walsh fell for it.

I don't know how any reasonable coach can expect to go to college and expect college kids, let alone students, to learn 600 page playbooks with 16 personnel groupings, 70 formations, and 400 plays.

I mean honestly, some of the NFL playbooks look like something straight out of an MIT course with NASA play calls: YouTube - Jon Gruden Wired

The real test of a good coach is adapting to the personnel he has and simplifying the complicated. When Norm Chow was at BYU/USC he had 12 pass plays and 5 run plays, coincidentally, Mumme took all of those plays and went out of shotgun with four wide sets. Air Raid teams put up 50+ points a game running Shallow/Mesh/Y Cross and bubble screens. They run few things, and run them exceptionally well.
Click to expand...

Learning massive playbooks isn't really a problem. The problem is when the terminology is arbitrary, needlessly coded, or just excessively wordy.

I'll give you an example. Back in my day....(not going there)....when I was in high school, we had a very basic playbook with a very basic toss play that is no different than what Navy runs about 15 times a game. Backside slotback goes in motion, QB takes the snap, reverse pivots, and tosses to a spot about halfway between the playside tackle and the fullback. In our playbook, that was called "Ace 58" (or Ace 59). The last place I was coaching, the same play would be "Right Open Slot Zulu 32 slot toss". Guess which team averaged 29 points a game, and guess which one averaged 9?

My general rule is this. If a playbook is like the tax code or the written English language, it's going to be executed like junk. When a large number of varying concepts, terms, and ideas are all jammed together instead of being constantly assessed and re-assessed to figure out how it fits into a grand tapestry, disaster is sure to follow.

I've spent the last five years off-and-on developing my playbook, and I'll say that most of that time has been not adding, but cutting. Eventually I'll end up with a playbook in which every single minor concept is explained in the most basic details, with reasons why it's done this way and why it will be more successful than different ways. I have limits on how long formation names can be, a number system for what play means what that's a bit different than the standard, and a lot of personnel group adjustments. It'll be amazing, if I can ever get it finished.
 
#23
#23
kptvol said:
Urban will be fine. I think he's delegated too much responsibility to Adazzio following his health problems. Adazzio sucks, so that's a problem. He needs to correct that. Also, Brantley is doing OK, but I'm not sure Urban's system will ever work with that kind of guy. The recent problems with Demps and Rainey have certainly hurt things, as well. Moving the best OL you have to center and having him fail terribly at it is another problem.

Kicker is also hurt.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I still don't think much of Chizik, but when three of the top 4 coaches in the division are Miles, Chizik, and Petrino, every year Saban doesn't win it looks like an overhyped coach will.
 
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