Some observations, questions, and theories on our O-Line

#1
allvol21

allvol21

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#1
I am far from hitting the panic button on our o-line. I agree that with many on here that this coaching staff has shown in the past this position group and team WILL GET BETTER as the season progresses. However it doesn't take a football geinous to know this O-line has underperformed and quit honestly been whipped for a lot of the first 2 games.

1) How could a line that returned everyone regress?

Is it possible that they have not regressed but our scheme has somewhat changed? Just thinking back to Butch's first 3 years we ran the football a lot more on the outside. In hurd's first 2 seasons 90% of his runs were more like sweeps. This year we are expecting our line to be able to attack more up front and allow hurd to run off tackle more. This is not an excuse for a collapsing pocket on a 3 man rush but just a thought for some of the downfall.

2) Why have we went away from the read option with the slot man coming in motion for the jet sweep as the first option. I really felt like before this was hard to defend. I realize in the past that we had to do this more because we didn't have the consistency to attack downfield, but I don't understand why we have not saw it this year some. I would love to see us put Alvin at slot and run this some.
 
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#2
#2
If this line continues to digress, a new phrase "coaching them down" will emerge.

I don't think that will happen, but I truly expected to this point that the Oline would look a bit like a steam-roller at times (having been spoiled by the Olines of the 90s). Instead of a steam-roller, we've seen more of a wheelbarrow (one guy - maybe two actually pancake someone on occasion).

Fingers-crossed.
 
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#3
#3
1) They didn't. An OL needs chemistry probably more than any group in sports. They have to communicate well and have a level of group think that ants would envy. IMHO, Richmond is the guy holding the group as a whole back. Not intentionally or carelessly.... he simply doesn't appear to be ready to play. So now the coaches have the tough choice of sticking with him to see if he plays his way into a groove with the other guys or replacing him with someone whose upside isn't as high. Not an easy choice but my hope is they make him a back up, give him reps, and allow him to integrate slowly.

2) Probably a related problem. The read option requires good blocking at the point of attack. It also requires that you run plays off of that play to keep D's honest. In short, fix the personnel issues on the OL and lots of things get much better.
 
#4
#4
utvols74 said:
If this line continues to digress, a new phrase "coaching them down" will emerge.

I don't think that will happen, but I truly expected to this point that the Oline would look a bit like a steam-roller at times (having been spoiled by the Olines of the 90s). Instead of a steam-roller, we've seen more of a wheelbarrow (one guy - maybe two actually pancake someone on occasion).

Fingers-crossed.
Click to expand...

When they have the right combination of players, you'll see amazing improvement.
 
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#5
#5
I have noticed that we seem to be doing a little less so far this season in terms of creatively pulling linemen to get them blocking out in space or misdirect the defense than we saw last year.

Also, predictable play calling hang helped the OL very much IMO.

I'm skeptical of the quality of coaching they're receiving from Mahoney.

I think a lot of our players (JRob, Coleman, Wiesman) were overrated heading into this season because they were solid against teams with poor talent down the backstretch in 2015.

And finally, our level of depth and experience at OT was not conducive to a productive competition for the starting spots.

Hopefully we see the coaches figure out and settle in on a starting 5 this week against Ohio.
 
#6
#6
Regressed? Absolutely. One starter, Kerbyson was lost still there is a nine player rotation carryover from '15. This line was expected to be an area of strength. Going into the season analysts expectations were high "the best since '12".

LT Kendrick (until Hall returns) / Richmond
LG Robertson / Boulware
C Wiesman / Thomas
RG Jones / Mosley
RT Kendrick / Thomas (once Hall returns)
 
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#7
#7
Butch Jones is frantically trying to find 5 Oline-men that can block 3 Dline-men, but his success remains a question mark?
 
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#8
#8
photovol said:
Butch Jones is frantically trying to find 5 Oline-men that can block 3 Dline-men, but his success remains a question mark?
Click to expand...

Can't disagree that there have been times when it appears so....but all it takes if for 1 guy to miss an assignment / get beat; when the pocket begins to collapse a bit on one side - Dobbs takes off....when maybe he should step up. No team has perfect pass pro during the course of a game, and while there has been busted protection on more plays than we'd like, Dobbs has had plenty of plays where he had ample time to make a read and hit the best option downfield.

Every lineman we've played has been beat on more than one occasion. Some more than others, but none of them have been stellar thus far; hence the reason why DLmen are generally stronger and quicker than their counterparts...otherwise any O would be almost unstoppable. Technique also comes into play, which I think was part of the reason behind ASU's success - their DLmen had excellent technique and used every bit of leverage they could on multiple plays.

SJT's observations the last 2 weeks are about as good and even keeled as I've seen on here. He is exceedingly right on the chemistry part, and it's easy for anyone to see - teams our guys have played, and will continue to play are selling out to stop the run. I also agree on his left side analysis. While CT hasn't looked as good as I thought he would based on last year and he did have the play vs. ASU where he lost his balance and made the DLman look like a superstar, but he isn't the weakest link...it's the left side more often than not, moreso vs. VT, which is closer to the size and speed our VOLS will see in SEC play.
 
#9
#9
OP, I still think the staff is searching for the best five (and Jack Jones better be one of them btw). IMO, Hall being out, C. Thomas being hampered by injury, and Richmond not being ready stick out to me. I just hope the staff finds some sort of a solution against Ohio before SEC play begins.
 
#10
#10
At least one thing is clear: Coleman Thomas should not be at center. If he was as injured as discussed on this board I don't think that they would continue to put him there. He did better at right tackle. Maybe being a complete center just isn't in his skill set, it's a tough position to master. After watching the game again last night, it's like night and day once they moved some of those offensive linemen around. Dobbs had at least another 2 seconds in the pocket, Herbstreit pointed it out multiple times.
 
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#11
#11
swchandler1988 said:
At least one thing is clear: Coleman Thomas should not be at center. If he was as injured as discussed on this board I don't think that they would continue to put him there. He did better at right tackle. Maybe being a complete center just isn't in his skill set, it's a tough position to master. After watching the game again last night, it's like night and day once they moved some of those offensive linemen around. Dobbs had at least another 2 seconds in the pocket, Herbstreit pointed it out multiple times.
Click to expand...

you could be right, but center is his natural position and the one he was recruited for. I thought he played very well last year and was excited to see him progress this year...which is somewhat disappointing.

One thing for sure, he isn't a straight on blocking center we're accustomed to seeing in pro-style offenses - he's more of a pulling blocker, which should work in the scheme the team runs. However, so far (and likely to continue) he doesn't have time to pull because everyone is selling out to stop the run.
 
#12
#12
So has anyone else noticed that we haven't went with any jet sweep action into the read option or have I just missed it?
 
#13
#13
I just hope this isn't a strength and conditioning thing. Remember we made changes there in the off season.
 
#14
#14
This league has been and will always been brutal line play.. We are tyring to be fitness with misdirection/delay vs line up and punch someone is the mouth...
 
#15
#15
allvol21 said:
So has anyone else noticed that we haven't went with any jet sweep action into the read option or have I just missed it?
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If you missed it, so did I. It's like they replaced the jet sweep with the swing pass to Karmara. Problem is the other teams appear to have that play sniffed out before it develops?
 
#17
#17
walkenvol said:
If you missed it, so did I. It's like they replaced the jet sweep with the swing pass to Karmara. Problem is the other teams appear to have that play sniffed out before it develops?
Click to expand...

I wish they would pump fake to Kamara on the swing pass and burn the corner with a go. VT was anticipating that swing pass every time we ran it
 
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