So many ACL tears these days...are we running up against the physical limits of the human body?

[ClockworkOrange]

Athletes have gotten to so big, so fast, so agile for their size, I have to wonder if we as humans are butting up against the absolute limits of what ligaments, tendons, etc., can handle in the form of force, torque, muscle development, etc. ?

As much a question of physics as medical? I know plenty of you know way more about this subject than I do and was just wondering what you would speculate?

 

[The Original Fade]

It’s an interesting question. As athletes continually get bigger and stronger, some parts of their bodies do not. Not entirely sure about ligaments and tendons, but this issue comes up routinely regarding concussions. Players heads don’t get bigger, stronger, etc. But the hits to their heads are coming from athletes who are bigger, stronger, and faster everywhere else

 

[SpookyAction]

I say yes.
And they need to integrate the practice helmet shock absorber into gameday helmets.

 

[AlwaysOrangeNeverBlue]

I say yes.
And they need to integrate the practice helmet shock absorber into gameday helmets.

https://www.aan.com/PressRoom/Home/PressRelease/1347

Interesting, yet quick read on how the science is out on these having any substantive or substantial effect on brain safety.

 

[VolFann9]

I think we are. A good example that I like to use is CrossFit. The Olympic lifts they do, the snatch, the clean, etc. are things of beauty when done correctly. With the right technique, the laws of physics allow one lift a lot more than if they try to muscle it up through brute force. The problem is, when a person has just ran 400m, done 15 pull ups, 10 handstand push ups, with no break in between, how could one expect to be perfect on every rep of a heavy Olympic lift? It’s not possible. Those guys blood dope, they train multiple times a day, and they are fed like Kentucky derby thoroughbreds, but the CrossFit games has an insane number of injuries every year.

Football is worse because, being a contact sport, there are so many more variables. If I’m attacking something head on at least I can prepare for it. How could Gooden have possibly prepared for someone rolling up on his leg from the side, out of his peripherals? We cannot do much more than what we’re doing in the injury prevention category. We’re only getting better in the rehab category.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

I dont think many athletes participate in a really good stretching routine.

 

[OrangeByBirth]

Flag football is coming to a P5 school near you!
The Alabama Big Red Roses vs Tennessee Daisies

As to helmets, I think a return to leather helmets will limit head injuries since the ability to use it as a weapon will be limited.

 

[AlwaysOrangeNeverBlue]

I dont think many athletes participate in a really good stretching routine.

Do you place this on the athletes or the staff? I can't think of hearing of a single program where the beginning of every practice and workout doesn't include stretching. Are the stretching routines that are being implemented by trained and licensed strength and conditioning staffs inadequate?

 

[TJVol95]

Athletes have gotten to so big, so fast, so agile for their size, I have to wonder if we as humans are butting up against the absolute limits of what ligaments, tendons, etc., can handle in the form of force, torque, muscle development, etc. ?

As much a question of physics as medical? I know plenty of you know way more about this subject than I do and was just wondering what you would speculate?

They don’t get big to fast at Alabama or Clemson.

 

[Grudenator]

I’ve torn my left ACL twice (24 yrs old). It’s not fun at all and your knee will never feel the same again, I don’t care what someone tells you. In football, I think we will only see an increase, with players being forced to hit lower on the body.

 

[jonnon111]

I think we do train and develop tendons and ligaments, but I'm sure there is a limit. Isn't this why steroid users stay injured? (ie Jose Condeco)?

But, let me say I never want a young person injured. On any team to be clear. Howsver, at what point are we too worried about injuries? Can we be too worried? Again, I'm not saying "who cares" but I am saying what more can we do? Lots of big guys wear special knee braces in practice and in games. They have outlawed crack back blocks, chop blocks to try and save knees.

One last thing, does anyone else seem like knee and ankle injuries flared up when we made defenders avoid the head and neck region? So maybe we can't have it both ways. What I do know, I don't want to legislate the physicality out of football. But that seems to be the way of the future unfortunately.

Players get hurt in baseball as well and everyone doesn't want to fundamentally change that game.

 

[Illinoisvolfan2]

Good question. An athlete can strengthen their muscles almost without limit but there’s little (or nothing) that can be done to strengthen ligaments.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Do you place this on the athletes or the staff? I can't think of hearing of a single program where the beginning of every practice and workout doesn't include stretching. Are the stretching routines that are being implemented by trained and licensed strength and conditioning staffs inadequate?

I really dont know. But not all stretching techniques are equal. Maybe they arent doing the right ones. Now I dont think that a proper stretching routine would prevent all ACL tears. But I don believe it would help with a lot of them. I think a really good yoga and tai chi roitine would do very well. Also, it wouldnt hurt to focus a little more on body weight exercises. Getting stronger and faster isnt all about just lifting weights and HIT.

 

[99gator]

Always

 

[maotai]

I think that some of the defensive philosophy of linemen tying up blocks instead of bulldozing through has something to do with it too. It tends to create more of a pile in middle and the longer two guys are engaged the more likely it will be that the pile rolls on to them.

 

[Ten_Titans]

 

[AlwaysOrangeNeverBlue]

I really dont know. But not all stretching techniques are equal. Maybe they arent doing the right ones. Now I dont think that a proper stretching routine would prevent all ACL tears. But I don believe it would help with a lot of them. I think a really good yoga and tai chi roitine would do very well. Also, it wouldnt hurt to focus a little more on body weight exercises. Getting stronger and faster isnt all about just lifting weights and HIT.

I agree entirely with the yoga/tai chi idea. There’s a lot of players who have utilized similar methods to enhance their flexibility and prevent injury, i.e. Herschel Walker and Lynn Swan doing ballet or Phil Jackson implementing meditation techniques with the Bulls (slightly different but oh well).

However, it’s typically NFL players who don’t have classes and academic workload taking up their “free” time. Plus, there’s an unfortunate stigma associated with those activities to be overcome. Would absolutely love to see it implemented, just not sure how likely it would be accepted on a mass scale.

 

[BigBadVol]

Good question. An athlete can strengthen their muscles almost without limit but there’s little (or nothing) that can be done to strengthen ligaments.

As a sports chiropractor for twenty two years and someone who got to work with top trainers with the 96 Canadian Olympic team, you are clueless. The problem with trainers is they ignore joint integrity. Muscle will strengthen at 3 times the rate of a tendon and 5 times the rate of a ligament. With track athletes, we focused on joint strength not muscular strength. Muscular strength increased as a by product of joint strengthening. Have you ever noticed how muscular sprinters are? Athletes in football measure strength by how much they can lift but there are numerous factors. We would test athletes by putting the joint at a disadvantage and slowly put a load on it to avoid injury. We could tell by the athletes response which joints were at risk for injury. Ligaments and tendons are tissue and can be strengthened but they are generally ignored by trainers.

As a side note: I worked on Donovan Bailey the 100 meter champion. It was the first time the US 4x100 was beaten in 24 years. The Canadians won and I was estatic. The American team treated us like crap. The Canadian team treated us with respect and gratitude.

 

[bigorangepoppa]

May not have any affect at all, but in lifting, all the emphasis is muscles contracting to build them, while in football, baseball, basketball, just about any athletic event, the muscles are being stretched, totally opposite from lifting. I think the muscle memory has some part of the injuries. A good stretching program, along with the building program will help to a certain extent, but as has been mentioned, these players are getting bigger all the time so injuries are going to happen. Just my thoughts on it.

 

[tpsdave]

Flag football is coming to a P5 school near you!
The Alabama Big Red Roses vs Tennessee Daisies

As to helmets, I think a return to leather helmets will limit head injuries since the ability to use it as a weapon will be limited.

Very good point. Paterno (say what you will) said for years that head injuries could be reduced by going to a helmet without a face mask. Players would then naturally use their shoulders more in tackling. And if a helmet were used without the face mask, the leather style helmet would be much better that the modern helmets of today. Otherwise, you'd have a lot of broken jaws.

 

[Jaws]

Yes. Not just ACL, look at the Tommy John surgeries in baseball, used to be a rare thing, now there are dozens each year. Remember when Strasburg first came on the scene and was throwing 98-101mph for 9 innings? Nobody had ever done that, there was a reason. Sure enough, about two years in, there goes the elbow tendon. Now he’s low to mid 90’s guy, but is still having a great career, but he’s not touching 100 anymore. Same with Tiger Woods’ back and knees. The torque he was putting on his body was unprecedented. He lasted about 15 good years, and then fell apart physically.

Same thing applies to ACL’s

 

[Illinoisvolfan2]

As a sports chiropractor for twenty two years and someone who got to work with top trainers with the 96 Canadian Olympic team, you are clueless. The problem with trainers is they ignore joint integrity. Muscle will strengthen at 3 times the rate of a tendon and 5 times the rate of a ligament. With track athletes, we focused on joint strength not muscular strength. Muscular strength increased as a by product of joint strengthening. Have you ever noticed how muscular sprinters are? Athletes in football measure strength by how much they can lift but there are numerous factors. We would test athletes by putting the joint at a disadvantage and slowly put a load on it to avoid injury. We could tell by the athletes response which joints were at risk for injury. Ligaments and tendons are tissue and can be strengthened but they are generally ignored by trainers.

As a side note: I worked on Donavon Bailey the 100 meter champion. It was the first time the US 4x100 was beaten in 24 years. The Canadians won and I was estatic. The American team treated us like crap. The Canadian team treated us with respect and gratitude.

Okay. Since I am “clueless”, what exercises can an athlete do to specifically increase the strength of knee ligaments? And are college football programs doing these routines?

 

[BigBadVol]

Joint strengthening requires lighter weight higher reps and adjustments to rom and direction. Example the knee joint: A diarthrodial joint (meaning two way ie flexion & extension), we would also put the joint in light rotational exercises as well for extended periods. 1 minute or more. The goal in joint strengthening is to make the joint burn versus making the muscle fatigue. As to why trainers and such in football focus on muscles is obvious. Strength wins in football but injuries pile up. Joint training is time consuming and I feel trainers in these sports don’t have the time to implement it. Coaches and players want to see bulk and don’t see the value in joint training. MMA has embraced joint training. That’s one of the reasons you see less people getting submitted by arm bars and such. They see their share of injuries but considering the sport injuries would be much higher. Finally, some trainers have not embraced the concept although it’s been around 25 years. Didn’t mean to call you clueless. It was rude. Apologies.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

I still believe that fundamentally, the issue is more diet-related stretching back to how kids eat. Plus less outdoor activities due to gaming devices. Last time I suggested this, one person accused me of preaching, another misunderstood and thought I was talking about football players in college. It goes way back before that, all the way to childhood dietary habits and lack of outdoor activity. Both which have effect on bone and ligament development. For deniers, you need only to look at the diabetes epidemic and obese population (or number of bipedal whales at Neyland) and other ailments that used to be associated with post 40 -50-year-old folks but now show up with kids. Fats, salt, sugar, and now chemicalization of food is all working together to make us less than we once were. I was watching some vintage footage of WWI & WWII military, and construction people. It amazed how those skinny guys accomplish incredible feats, I seriously question if many of our present GI Joes could do so without casualties not inflicted by the enemy. Tough SOBs back then. Same can be said of football p[layers. Some played entire games or seasons with injuries that put today's players out of commission immediately. Back to the point, it's the diets that aren't conducive to sturdy bone, tendon, and ligament tissue development.

And here we go.

 

[BigBadVol]

I still believe that fundamentally, the issue is more diet-related stretching back to how kids eat. Plus less outdoor activities due to gaming devices. Last time I suggested this, one person accused me of preaching, another misunderstood and thought I was talking about football players in college. It goes way back before that, all the way to childhood dietary habits and lack of outdoor activity. Both which have effect on bone and ligament development. For deniers, you need only to look at the diabetes epidemic and obese population (or number of bipedal whales at Neyland) and other ailments that used to be associated with post 40 -50-year-old folks but now show up with kids. Fats, salt, sugar, and now chemicalization of food is all working together to make us less than we once were. I was watching some vintage footage of WWI & WWII military, and construction people. It amazed how those skinny guys accomplish feats, I seriously question if many of our present GI Joes could do without casualties not inflicted by the enemy. Tough SOBs back then. Same can be said of football p[layers. Some played entire games or seasons with injuries that put today's players out of commission immediately. Back to the point, it's the diets that aren't conducive to sturdy bone, tendon, and ligament tissue development.

And here we go.

I agree with you 100%. Diet is just as important as proper training. And I will add a third. Mental state. I’ve seen athletes get hesitant resulting in injury. All of it is important. One issue we haven’t talked about is hormones that we consume. Hormones can help in size and strength but not in quality tissue development. Hormones in milk and such have kids bigger but the training is not accompanying the increase in size. Weakened ligaments and tendons are the result. A 300 lb kid takes a step in the wrong direction, snap or tear.