Orangeslice13, a blessing to those around him…..Again

[GVF]

Good stuff.

That covenant is with Israel (Gentiles and the 11) and Judah (Jews ). The punishment is all that is complete for believers. The law will still be the standard by which the nonbelievers are condemned.

You’ve heard me say there’s nothing new under the sun (proverbs)

Well here’s where Hebrews 8 got their information. Jeremiah 31.
Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Agreed. He was speaking of the coming of His son he would send. New covenant to replace old covenant.

A lot of passages in the NT draws from the OT in order to proof out the prophesies that had to be fulfilled.

 

[GVF]

Jeremiah is pretty clear on this. The rules haven’t changed. And were not going too. The “new covenant” will mean that people will no longer study or be taught. Even those who reject G-d will know G-d. It’s clearly that Messiah was the first fruits of that promise but we’re not there yet. As all the promises made by G-d through Jeremiah Do not currently exist and never have

I think that is important and supports my free will choice to follow God. We are no longer dependent under the new law upon the priests for knowledge or what to believe. We have the cognitive ability to know God each in our own way, and have access to that salvation individually. Kinda the whole point of the crucifixion giving us that salvation and grace.

(Well, we still study, but it is us individually that studies and knows God, and shares that for someone else to make up their own mind. And to further that point, we have some differing beliefs, but we also have some very closely aligned beliefs about salvation and such so far. And were born in life into two totally different paths of getting there.)

 

[Behr]

In case y’all missed it, I do not think the book of Hebrews is inspired and I do not consider it scripture. As a matter of fact approximately 30% of the guys who determined what books would be in the Bible agree with me. I’ve described it as “crap”. Not because of any real doctrine issues. There’s only one I take exception with. It’s just loaded with errors that don’t exist in the rest of the “New Testament” writings. Nothing to get in a twist about but there is one guy who just can’t let it go.

I think he may be secretly in love with me.

I read the exchange between you and GVF and I have to admit, I was taken back by Hebrews 6:4. Gotta say I struggled. That said, I personally don't believe any part of the Bible is crap and if there are any errors, of that magnitude, its in my interpretation. So when I read it I agreed with you that's what it says, but to me, I know it can't mean that, so I looked further into it and bit off more than I could chew, Lol.

Anyway, long story short, and it is alot of information as I'm sure you know and I may not be able to explain it well enough....yet another reason I don't like being involved in these discussions......, I decided to me "falling away" meant "apostasy", and after that one is just not capable of finding his way back. Its impossible.

I believe we have to seek God, but to be saved he has to draw us in. I don't believe we can just wake up one morning and decide to be saved and be saved. If that's true, after " falling away" I believe its saying its impossible to seek Him again.

And I'm just curious about the other 70%.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

So I’m posting this because I don’t know really were else I could really talk about it at.

I’ve kinda lost my faith. I was raised super strict fundamental/evangelical pentecostal. Even as a kid that never really sat well with me. I’ve kinda gone back and forth between belief and atheism or agnostic in my adult life. My wife was raised LDS and they definitely have their own version of craziness. She isn’t a part of that them anymore. And we go to a nondenominational church.

Recently I’ve been more on atheist side. I just find it harder and harder to believe. I still want to believe I guess, but I’m definitely over the culture of Christianity that seems to be taking over America. The go to church and try to force your beliefs on everyone, the evangelical take over that seems to be everywhere, that seem to promote themselves or their church more than Christ and seem to believe that their version of Christianity is better than others, but at the same time are corrupt themselves. My problem here is definitely with Christians and not necessarily God. But that’s only part of it.

Another part, which I guess stems from that is it makes it harder and harder to believe myself. I feel like if Jesus was to return to earth today most Christians wouldn’t recognize him or would renounce him.

I don’t know what I’m looking for in saying this. Just needed to get it off my chest I guess.

 

[Orangeslice13]

My dude!!!!!!
It’s good to see you post.
Now I’m going to go read it. Lol

 

[Orangeslice13]

So I’m posting this because I don’t know really were else I could really talk about it at.

I’ve kinda lost my faith. I was raised super strict fundamental/evangelical pentecostal. Even as a kid that never really sat well with me. I’ve kinda gone back and forth between belief and atheism or agnostic in my adult life. My wife was raised LDS and they definitely have their own version of craziness. She isn’t a part of that them anymore. And we go to a nondenominational church.

Recently I’ve been more on atheist side. I just find it harder and harder to believe. I still want to believe I guess, but I’m definitely over the culture of Christianity that seems to be taking over America. The go to church and try to force your beliefs on everyone, the evangelical take over that seems to be everywhere, that seem to promote themselves or their church more than Christ and seem to believe that their version of Christianity is better than others, but at the same time are corrupt themselves. My problem here is definitely with Christians and not necessarily God. But that’s only part of it.

Another part, which I guess stems from that is it makes it harder and harder to believe myself. I feel like if Jesus was to return to earth today most Christians wouldn’t recognize him or would renounce him.

I don’t know what I’m looking for in saying this. Just needed to get it off my chest I guess.

You are welcome to discuss it here.
I have real issues with a lot of what is called “Christianity” today. It seems odd to me the things that are taught that are in direct opposition to the words of Messiah. Having said that I decided a long time ago that I would share what I believe and work on my own understanding without reguard to what others thought. I figure I’ll be judged alone before the creator so my belief is all that matters to me. Others will be judged by themselves so I will encourage them to know what they believe but respect whatever they decide.
I too struggled for a long time with “Christianity” before adoption of this attitude. In regard to Christianity not recognizing Jesus....Jesus said “many” would be rejected on the day of judgment. It’s interesting though that the word used in that verse should have been translated “most” as opposed to “many”.

I’ve got another thought for you a little later but I’ll stop here for now

 

[VolNExile]

So I’m posting this because I don’t know really were else I could really talk about it at.

I’ve kinda lost my faith. I was raised super strict fundamental/evangelical pentecostal. Even as a kid that never really sat well with me. I’ve kinda gone back and forth between belief and atheism or agnostic in my adult life. My wife was raised LDS and they definitely have their own version of craziness. She isn’t a part of that them anymore. And we go to a nondenominational church.

Recently I’ve been more on atheist side. I just find it harder and harder to believe. I still want to believe I guess, but I’m definitely over the culture of Christianity that seems to be taking over America. The go to church and try to force your beliefs on everyone, the evangelical take over that seems to be everywhere, that seem to promote themselves or their church more than Christ and seem to believe that their version of Christianity is better than others, but at the same time are corrupt themselves. My problem here is definitely with Christians and not necessarily God. But that’s only part of it.

Another part, which I guess stems from that is it makes it harder and harder to believe myself. I feel like if Jesus was to return to earth today most Christians wouldn’t recognize him or would renounce him.

I don’t know what I’m looking for in saying this. Just needed to get it off my chest I guess.

I like my denomination, Disciples of Christ. We all acknowledge that we have different beliefs, but are united in respect for one another, and we are all working on learning with humility.

Mother Teresa struggled with a loss of faith for decades. I don't think that faith is a binary thing - you have it, or you don't. It can be stronger or weaker at different times. Don't give up trying to figure this stuff out when you don't fit into a tidy category.

Note to the others: I don't debate religion and spiritual matters. You have what you believe, and I have what I believe. I don't put God in a box. I'm still seeing through a glass darkly. I only posted this as a response to volfan_89. Enjoy the blessings of your day, and of your life.

 

[malinoisvol]

So I’m posting this because I don’t know really were else I could really talk about it at.

I’ve kinda lost my faith. I was raised super strict fundamental/evangelical pentecostal. Even as a kid that never really sat well with me. I’ve kinda gone back and forth between belief and atheism or agnostic in my adult life. My wife was raised LDS and they definitely have their own version of craziness. She isn’t a part of that them anymore. And we go to a nondenominational church.

Recently I’ve been more on atheist side. I just find it harder and harder to believe. I still want to believe I guess, but I’m definitely over the culture of Christianity that seems to be taking over America. The go to church and try to force your beliefs on everyone, the evangelical take over that seems to be everywhere, that seem to promote themselves or their church more than Christ and seem to believe that their version of Christianity is better than others, but at the same time are corrupt themselves. My problem here is definitely with Christians and not necessarily God. But that’s only part of it.

Another part, which I guess stems from that is it makes it harder and harder to believe myself. I feel like if Jesus was to return to earth today most Christians wouldn’t recognize him or would renounce him.

I don’t know what I’m looking for in saying this. Just needed to get it off my chest I guess.

I feel ya on the church part. I stopped going to church a long time ago, although, I never have entertained the ideas of atheists or agnostics.

The reason I stopped going to church is that I started to notice that congregants, not all, seemed be in some kind of competition. Who drives the fanciest auto, has the fanciest clothes, etc... I also noticed congregants that were working the other congregants, i.e. real estate agents.

Then, the Mega-Churches started forming and that "killed" church for me. Seeing the leaders of the churches driving high-priced autos, living in McMansions, and/or traveling in private planes just doesn't fit in to how I was raised.

With that being said, I am glad people go to the church of their choice, or don't, and believe as they see fit.

I am still a firm believer.
I am still a sinner.

My .02 cents worth.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Maybe atheism is a little strong because I don’t know that I’ve ever truly lost all faith or ever denied the existence of God. I do struggle with believe and faith though so volnexile said did resonate with me.

All the down time at work has given me lots of time for introspective and that coupled with everything going on in the world, plus my existing view of mainstream “Christianity” has brought up these thoughts and I didn’t really have another place to share them.

I’m definitely interested in what else you have to say slice. And everyone else too.

 

[joevol33]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Maybe atheism is a little strong because I don’t know that I’ve ever truly lost all faith or ever denied the existence of God. I do struggle with believe and faith though so volnexile said did resonate with me.

All the down time at work has given me lots of time for introspective and that coupled with everything going on in the world, plus my existing view of mainstream “Christianity” has brought up these thoughts and I didn’t really have another place to share them.

I’m definitely interested in what else you have to say slice. And everyone else too.

We go to a Baptist church, but there are things I believe different. I normally only talk about it with my wife, because people can get bent out of shape if you have a different view. There's things that I agree with Slice on from reading his posts, but don't tell him. I do enjoy the church because I've gotten help, and despite people being hypocritical, I've sincerely seen people get help. One of my favorite scriptures is Philippians 2:12- about working out your own salvation. What I believe, and how I serve shouldn't depend on the actions of others. That said, it is hard when you watch people being hypocritical. As far as my faith, there's many times I've had the thoughts of "why would God", or "how could God". Here's how I feel, many times I've been guilty of associating faith with what I feel, when faith actually has nothing to do with emotions. Now I understand completely, it's hard to seperate what you feel, and not let it over ride your faith. If you read Ephesians 6, it talks about putting on the whole armour of God, and if you'll notice, the very first thing we are told to put on is the truth. It's easier said than done, but we have to live in the truth over emotions. Example, there's times in my life that it doesn't "feel" like God is there, or cares if he is. The truth however, says he's with us always, and loves us with an everlasting love. I know people will think that's silly, or may not make sense to them, but like Philippians, it's my salvation/relationship that I have to work out. Once I saw, and got in my heart, about putting the truth on, it's really helped me. Maybe none of that helps you, but hang in there man, I'll pray for you.

 

[hmanvolfan]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Maybe atheism is a little strong because I don’t know that I’ve ever truly lost all faith or ever denied the existence of God. I do struggle with believe and faith though so volnexile said did resonate with me.

All the down time at work has given me lots of time for introspective and that coupled with everything going on in the world, plus my existing view of mainstream “Christianity” has brought up these thoughts and I didn’t really have another place to share them.

I’m definitely interested in what else you have to say slice. And everyone else too.

I have had Jesus with me most of my life. There have been many examples of my life being spared through God’s grace but the latest one was two years ago when I woke up in the ICU not knowing how I got there and hearing the doctors had gathered my family and told them I was not going to survive and asked them if they wanted to revive when my heart stopped beating. All I know is regardless of if or where you go to church if you have Jesus in your heart that’s all you need to be happy and rest assured you will have everlasting life. I thank him every day for loving me and watching over me. I can only speak for myself but I know if you ask Jesus into your life he will never leave you.

 

[tnuhcvols]

I may regret this but probably not, most of you seem genuinely able to tolerate different views or perspectives for the most part. I will keep this simple. I am going to state my personal philosophy on redemption or whatever word best describes an afterlife that is something other than condemnation.

No matter your religion, or faith, or lack thereof; or complete indifference to the whole thing. If there is such a thing as judgement day (I believe ultimately there is something greater beyond life on earth) I feel that you can take comfort in your judgement if: you have followed the ten commandments. Practically every religion shares (for the most part) most of the ten commandments fundamentally. They should guide and dictate how you act and how you treat others.

The end(amen)

 

[tnuhcvols]

Edit. Dbl post

 

[Orangeslice13]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Maybe atheism is a little strong because I don’t know that I’ve ever truly lost all faith or ever denied the existence of God. I do struggle with believe and faith though so volnexile said did resonate with me.

All the down time at work has given me lots of time for introspective and that coupled with everything going on in the world, plus my existing view of mainstream “Christianity” has brought up these thoughts and I didn’t really have another place to share them.

I’m definitely interested in what else you have to say slice. And everyone else too.

I’m a pretty well documented “Torah keeper”.
I’ve been clear that I love G-d so I keep his commandments. The keeping of those commandments do not save me. I believe every commandment G-d gave was forever as He said. Even Messiah, who is the Hand of G-d and speaks on His behalf, says that nothing passes from the law till heaven and earth pass away. We’re still here so..... in Romans ch 7 Paul starts talking to people who “know the law”. He spend the entire chapter explaining what the law is and does. If you want TomTom understand that chapter it’s information found in Duet, Numbers and Psalms. He begins chapter 8 explaining that there’s no condemnation for those who understand what that all means in Messiah and in 8.4 states that is how he now keeps the law. I tell you all that to tell you this. I don’t worry about salvation......at all. I’m not of the Pharisee school of thought I line up more with the Sadducee thinking. Daniel was a Sadducee. He said that if G-d were to destroy him then G-d would be righteous and just to do so. Even if Daniel knew his destruction was at hand he’d still serve and follow G-d. That is how I choose to live. Abraham believed G-d and it was righteousness. To me faith is believing G-d. All of it. So I press for the mark of the high calling of The Creator in Union with H-s Messiah. If I’m found lacking in the end and cast to destruction then I will go gladly to that end in submission to the One who created me. My existence is at H-s mercy and my end shall be as well.

If anyone disagrees then I say good for you. At least you know what you believe before you’re brought to the final judgment.

 

[Orangeslice13]

I very much enjoy the free flow of ideas with respect for one another. Thanks to everyone for this conversation

 

[Orangeslice13]

We go to a Baptist church, but there are things I believe different. I normally only talk about it with my wife, because people can get bent out of shape if you have a different view. There's things that I agree with Slice on from reading his posts, but don't tell him. I do enjoy the church because I've gotten help, and despite people being hypocritical, I've sincerely seen people get help. One of my favorite scriptures is Philippians 2:12- about working out your own salvation. What I believe, and how I serve shouldn't depend on the actions of others. That said, it is hard when you watch people being hypocritical. As far as my faith, there's many times I've had the thoughts of "why would God", or "how could God". Here's how I feel, many times I've been guilty of associating faith with what I feel, when faith actually has nothing to do with emotions. Now I understand completely, it's hard to seperate what you feel, and not let it over ride your faith. If you read Ephesians 6, it talks about putting on the whole armour of God, and if you'll notice, the very first thing we are told to put on is the truth. It's easier said than done, but we have to live in the truth over emotions. Example, there's times in my life that it doesn't "feel" like God is there, or cares if he is. The truth however, says he's with us always, and loves us with an everlasting love. I know people will think that's silly, or may not make sense to them, but like Philippians, it's my salvation/relationship that I have to work out. Once I saw, and got in my heart, about putting the truth on, it's really helped me. Maybe none of that helps you, but hang in there man, I'll pray for you.

I went Philippians in my rant just for you

 

[82_VOL_83]

We go to a Baptist church, but there are things I believe different. I normally only talk about it with my wife, because people can get bent out of shape if you have a different view. There's things that I agree with Slice on from reading his posts, but don't tell him. I do enjoy the church because I've gotten help, and despite people being hypocritical, I've sincerely seen people get help. One of my favorite scriptures is Philippians 2:12- about working out your own salvation. What I believe, and how I serve shouldn't depend on the actions of others. That said, it is hard when you watch people being hypocritical. As far as my faith, there's many times I've had the thoughts of "why would God", or "how could God". Here's how I feel, many times I've been guilty of associating faith with what I feel, when faith actually has nothing to do with emotions. Now I understand completely, it's hard to seperate what you feel, and not let it over ride your faith. If you read Ephesians 6, it talks about putting on the whole armour of God, and if you'll notice, the very first thing we are told to put on is the truth. It's easier said than done, but we have to live in the truth over emotions. Example, there's times in my life that it doesn't "feel" like God is there, or cares if he is. The truth however, says he's with us always, and loves us with an everlasting love. I know people will think that's silly, or may not make sense to them, but like Philippians, it's my salvation/relationship that I have to work out. Once I saw, and got in my heart, about putting the truth on, it's really helped me. Maybe none of that helps you, but hang in there man, I'll pray for you.

Preach brother.

 

[82_VOL_83]

I may regret this but probably not, most of you seem genuinely able to tolerate different views or perspectives for the most part. I will keep this simple. I am going to state my personal philosophy on redemption or whatever word best describes an afterlife that is something other than condemnation.

No matter your religion, or faith, or lack thereof; or complete indifference to the whole thing. If there is such a thing as judgement day (I believe ultimately there is something greater beyond life on earth) I feel that you can take comfort in your judgement if: you have followed the ten commandments. Practically every religion shares (for the most part) most of the ten commandments fundamentally. They should guide and dictate how you act and how you treat others.

The end(amen)

^^This is my position on the whole thing. I also believe that you have to try your best to be humble, nice and yes, subservient to those deserving of it. I believe that there are people in this life that do not deserve being treated nicely or given the benefit of the doubt and that there are people that just can't catch a break no matter how hard they try and should be helped as much as possible. I know many see that as judging but I see that as using the common sense and gut feel that I have been given.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Edit. Dbl post

I liked the first one so much I gave you a like on the second.

 

[tnuhcvols]

I liked the first one so much I gave you a like on the second.

 

[Orangeslice13]

I liked the first one so much I gave you a like on the second.

Me too

 

[Behr]

So I’m posting this because I don’t know really were else I could really talk about it at.

I’ve kinda lost my faith. I was raised super strict fundamental/evangelical pentecostal. Even as a kid that never really sat well with me. I’ve kinda gone back and forth between belief and atheism or agnostic in my adult life. My wife was raised LDS and they definitely have their own version of craziness. She isn’t a part of that them anymore. And we go to a nondenominational church.

Recently I’ve been more on atheist side. I just find it harder and harder to believe. I still want to believe I guess, but I’m definitely over the culture of Christianity that seems to be taking over America. The go to church and try to force your beliefs on everyone, the evangelical take over that seems to be everywhere, that seem to promote themselves or their church more than Christ and seem to believe that their version of Christianity is better than others, but at the same time are corrupt themselves. My problem here is definitely with Christians and not necessarily God. But that’s only part of it.

Another part, which I guess stems from that is it makes it harder and harder to believe myself. I feel like if Jesus was to return to earth today most Christians wouldn’t recognize him or would renounce him.

I don’t know what I’m looking for in saying this. Just needed to get it off my chest I guess.

Look what the cat dragged in. Sup dude? I don't have much to say about this except I'll keep you in my thoughts.

On another note, several months ago I was trying to remember who it was that knew/maybe even dated Heart. It just now hit me, it was you!! Right?

@Orangeslice13 Nothing important, but last night my pastor read 2 verses before his sermon and it made me briefly think about what I posted about Hebrews 6:4, which I'm still not 100% "sold on my interpretation, just what makes the most sense to me at this time. I gave him a post it last night asking him his opinion on it. Look forward to what he says. Anyway, ......

KJV. Matthew 19:25-26. 25When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

Look what the cat dragged in. Sup dude? I don't have much to say about this except I'll keep you in my thoughts.

On another note, several months ago I was trying to remember who it was that knew/maybe even dated Heart. It just now hit me, it was you!! Right?

@Orangeslice13 Nothing important, but last night my pastor read 2 verses before his sermon and it made me briefly think about what I posted about Hebrews 6:4, which I'm still not 100% "sold on my interpretation, just what makes the most sense to me at this time. I gave him a post it last night asking him his opinion on it. Look forward to what he says. Anyway, ......

KJV. Matthew 19:25-26. 25When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Sup man? I’m still around, I mostly post on reddit these days. I’m usually around more in the football season but I’m going to try to be here more. Reddit can be overwhelmingly negative and probably played a part in my post here/state of mind. I’m going to try to stay off there other than coffee related stuff and memes lol

Anyways I’m not sure I know what you mean with the heart stuff. Unless it’s something between heart and clapton but I’m not aware of anything between them.

 

[Tin Man]

Let it be known that even the heathens do not count me as one of their own...

I am not a Jew, for I was not born into the Tribes, nor have I taken instruction and been guided into the Faith by the congregants of a Reform synagogue or Temple.

I am not Christian, for I have not made the prayer to become one, nor have I been baptized in the Faith.

I am not Muslim, for I have not made the prayer to become a servant of God.

I do believe in the God of Abram/Abraham/Ibrahim. I have read the Torah, the New Testament, and the Koran (as translated by a US Muslim scholar). I see the Holy writings as the efforts of humans to receive, process, and convey the Word and Will of God as perceived by the human mind. As I am human, I perceive these to be imperfect. I do not find fault with human imperfection per se.

Faced with the sheer magnitude of the universe, I am profoundly humble before this evidence of God's being (I reconcile Creation and the Big Bang Theory and can see science as the search for and exploration of God's works). This humility is the cornerstone of my viewpoint. I greet with goodwill all unless and until they prove themselves false or evil. Their Faith (or lack thereof) is their own, neither lessor nor greater than others. Their character is key to interactions in this life. We all have our strengths and virtues, faults and foibles. Do we manifest humility in ourselves as we should be humbled by the vastness of the universe? The complexity of our own world?

I have been a welcome guest of numerous Christian congregations and a couple of Reform Temples. I have practiced a form of Buddhism, one that is void of concepts of deity (Buddhism is not a Faith; some are comfortable characterizing it as a spiritual practice). These Buddhists do not see reality as chaos. With its ever-changing states of matter and energy, the universe is governed by laws, truths which are beyond the capability of a human mind to fully comprehend. However, we can perceive that they are and can seek to be in harmony with them. To achieve this harmony is to become Buddha ("enlightened").

Yes, I do pray. Yes, I pray with the hope that my prayers are received and answered. No, I do not expect to comprehend when or how each of my prayers are answered. Humility (and understanding how separateness is a requisite of free will).

May God's gifts be yours. May your joy be great and your tribulations be few. May you live a life such that those who encounter you are gladdened by it and those who love you are enriched for it.

 

[Behr]

Sup man? I’m still around, I mostly post on reddit these days. I’m usually around more in the football season but I’m going to try to be here more. Reddit can be overwhelmingly negative and probably played a part in my post here/state of mind. I’m going to try to stay off there other than coffee related stuff and memes lol

Anyways I’m not sure I know what you mean with the heart stuff. Unless it’s something between heart and clapton but I’m not aware of anything between them.

That's cool, I'm sure of what I mean. Lulz.

I wish you the best in your spiritual journey, I've been on my own for a couple of years, different from yours but still a journey. I think I'm finally at the end of the beginning of it.