Orangeslice13, a blessing to those around him…..Again

[malinoisvol]

Well I never.

That's not what Souce said.

 

[Behr]

That's not what Souce said.

I detect jealousy.

 

[joevol33]

Well I never.

I bet you have!

 

[Orangeburst]

Slice. You were too little when it occurred but would think you heard the murder of DDS Elliott in 1974. He was our family dentist when he was kidnapped. I was discussing it with older family members recently and can find very little on internet. Do you know if they ever found motive for this murder? There was a lot of gossip on the ridge for years about why as no robbery occurred.

I did find this article that linked one of the killers to the phone exchange fire and robbery in Soddy Daisy. Coincidentally the mayor of SD was Elliotts first cousin. Weird connection.

Elliott: Telephone exchange firebombing was distraction for grocery store robbery

 

[Orangeslice13]

Slice. You were too little when it occurred but would think you heard the murder of DDS Elliott in 1974. He was our family dentist when he was kidnapped. I was discussing it with older family members recently and can find very little on internet. Do you know if they ever found motive for this murder? There was a lot of gossip on the ridge for years about why as no robbery occurred.

I did find this article that linked one of the killers to the phone exchange fire and robbery in Soddy Daisy. Coincidentally the mayor of SD was Elliotts first cousin. Weird connection.

Elliott: Telephone exchange firebombing was distraction for grocery store robbery

We moved here right about when that happened. I really don’t remember much about it other than his house was burned in hidden harbor and may believe it was to cover up evidence as they didn’t Eve try to cover the arson.

 

[Souce]

That's not what Souce said.

wtf!

 

[vol445]

@Orangeslice13 of course he is trying to use my conversation about something entirely different for his own conversation. It’s the reason I did nt comment about hebrews

 

[Orangeslice13]

@Orangeslice13 of course he is trying to use my conversation about something entirely different for his own conversation. It’s the reason I did nt comment about hebrews

I was reserved in my comments.
Hebrews is not scripture. If someone is using Hebrews by its self then they’re most likely twisting theology. I’ve put that guy on ignorance because he’s either stupid or willfully deceitful. Either way I don’t need to read his Yaris scuppla.

 

[Orangeslice13]

That’s Koni Greek for “bull ****” in case anyone was wondering

 

[hmanvolfan]

Slice at the end....

 

[Orangeslice13]

Lol

 

[Orangeslice13]

I'll ask in the simplest way I know

Do you believe Jesus Christ is God?

He asked "Do you believe that Jewish people that don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah are going to heaven?"

PT said he had no idea who was going to heaven and it wasn't for him or BigO to decide. That wasn't the question. IMO. What do you think?

So, if someone believes that Jesus is God and the third part of the Trinity, do they believe one must believe that to enter heaven, and those that don't will not enter heaven?

Also, if someone believes that Jesus is not God, they are not the same person/being, do these people believe the ones that do believe they are the same will not enter heaven?

That's the most simple way I know to ask to get the answers I'm looking for. I think yes or no will suffice.

here we go.

Yeshua/Jesus is not G-d. He is the only Begotten of G-d and in that very Unique but again not YHWH.
Think of it this way. If G-d was fire and there was only one fire then Messiah is an ember off of that fire. So he is begotten of the fire but not the fire.

I believe that messiah is the atonement for sins. Repentance is required for sins to be forgiven but atonement is still required for sins to be paid. (We can cover that in more detail if you want).

It is my opinion that those who believe Jesus is G-d will be forgiven that error as Yeshua has been issued all the authority of the Father.


I did not wish to answer over there. Hope this is ok.

 

[Orangeslice13]

@Purple Tiger
I’m curious on your opinion here away from you know who.

 

[Orangeslice13]

@superdave1984
@vol445

 

[Orangeslice13]

@Behr i can support all that with scripture if you want.

 

[Purple Tiger]

@Purple Tiger
I’m curious on your opinion here away from you know who.

I agree with what you wrote. I really don't know what Jesus' actual divine status is. If Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God, then we have three Gods, not one. I think the Trinity is an oversimplication if not an outright falsehood. i am not sure that Jesus has to be God.

 

[vol445]

@Behr i can support all that with scripture if you want.

Kinda funny all that made me look up John where it discusses Jesus’ divinity. And I can see that point of view totally. However you know I take my sweet time and study for my self. But I’ll say I get it.

 

[Orangeslice13]

I agree with what you wrote. I really don't know what Jesus' actual divine status is. If Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God, then we have three Gods, not one. I think the Trinity is an oversimplication if not an outright falsehood. i am not sure that Jesus has to be God.

Yeshua literally says he has a G-d.
John 20 ESV
Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

****and it’s the same G-d we worship.

Paul says that everything except G-d is under Messiahs control.
1 Corinthians 15.

But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming,24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27 For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him

vs 24 all power given back to G-d.
Vs 27 reiterates that all things are subject to Messiah. But clearly all things don’t include G-d who have the power to messiah.

If messiah is G-d as some say was revealed to Paul then why would Paul be sure to clearly state he’s not. in addition every letter Paul wrote begins with a greeting that separates the 2. “Blessing from G-d the father and Messiah whom He sent”

I agree that the relationship is difficult to understand and may not be beyond comprehension. I think what is lost in most Christian circles is the fear and reverence of G-d the father. By equating “Jesus “ with G-d people can do away with Torah and feel ok like they’re still G-ds people. It’s sad really. Yeshua warns in Matt 7 that a whole lot of people are going to be rejected on judgment day who thought they were in good standing.

Shalom

 

[Behr]

here we go.

Yeshua/Jesus is not G-d. He is the only Begotten of G-d and in that very Unique but again not YHWH.
Think of it this way. If G-d was fire and there was only one fire then Messiah is an ember off of that fire. So he is begotten of the fire but not the fire.

I believe that messiah is the atonement for sins. Repentance is required for sins to be forgiven but atonement is still required for sins to be paid. (We can cover that in more detail if you want).

It is my opinion that those who believe Jesus is G-d will be forgiven that error as Yeshua has been issued all the authority of the Father.


I did not wish to answer over there. Hope this is ok.

@Behr i can support all that with scripture if you want.

In my OP where I said "all 3 of you commented and I still didn't know", I meant I didn't know what you guys answers were, not that I don't know myself. I know what I believe to be the truth and I have no question.

I appreciate you taking time to answer. My beliefs are very personal to me as I'm sure they are to you. I'm not ashamed or embarrassed by any if my spiritual/religious beliefs, but until God hones my patience, I have little to none for those who disrespect them. That's reason number 4 I usually stay out of these types of conversations.

I'll most likely drop it now, but if you feel like answering the other question I'd be interested in your answer. You say you think those that believe Jesus is God will be forgiven for the "error". What if they are right? Do you think those that don't think Jesus is God will be forgiven if in fact he is?

 

[Orangeslice13]

In my OP where I said "all 3 of you commented and I still didn't know", I meant I didn't know what you guys answers were, not that I don't know myself. I know what I believe to be the truth and I have no question.

I appreciate you taking time to answer. My beliefs are very personal to me as I'm sure they are to you. I'm not ashamed or embarrassed by any if my spiritual/religious beliefs, but until God hones my patience, I have little to none for those who disrespect them. That's reason number 4 I usually stay out of these types of conversations.

I'll most likely drop it now, but if you feel like answering the other question I'd be interested in your answer. You say you think those that believe Jesus is God will be forgiven for the "error". What if they are right? Do you think those that don't think Jesus is God will be forgiven if in fact he is?

Edit: I understood that you were asking our opinion
Before I get into that.
the reason I brought it here and tagged the people I did is I believe those people can share their beliefs with out condemning others who don’t agree with it. PT included. He has only lashed out when attacked.

now. The messiah is the kinsman redeemer by the law/Torah. His status is less important than his action. He needs to be the of the father and nothing more. By the law He can Be YHWH, the Only Begotten of YHWH (as I believe) or a man who was able to live a sinless perfect life by inspiration of YHWH and fulfill the role of the Redeemer so I guess to answer your question the error of those who truly love G-d will be revealed in the end.

We are told by Messiah that you can only do one thing at not be forgiven. Misunderstanding how Messiah relates to G-d isn’t it.

Mathew 12.

31 “Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32 Whoever [ab]speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever [ac]speaks against the Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

I would be interested in what you believe and why.....if you’re not interested in posting it I understand. I believe everyone is judged by themselves alone and it’s not by me. So if we disagree I’m ok with it.

 

[vol445]

I would be interested in what you believe and why.....if you’re not interested in posting it I understand. I believe everyone is judged by themselves alone and it’s not by me. So if we disagree I’m ok with it

This

 

[Behr]

Edit: I understood that you were asking our opinion
Before I get into that.
the reason I brought it here and tagged the people I did is I believe those people can share their beliefs with out condemning others who don’t agree with it. PT included. He has only lashed out when attacked.

now. The messiah is the kinsman redeemer by the law/Torah. His status is less important than his action. He needs to be the of the father and nothing more. By the law He can Be YHWH, the Only Begotten of YHWH (as I believe) or a man who was able to live a sinless perfect life by inspiration of YHWH and fulfill the role of the Redeemer so I guess to answer your question the error of those who truly love G-d will be revealed in the end.

We are told by Messiah that you can only do one thing at not be forgiven. Misunderstanding how Messiah relates to G-d isn’t it.

Mathew 12.

31 “Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32 Whoever [ab]speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever [ac]speaks against the Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

I would be interested in what you believe and why.....if you’re not interested in posting it I understand. I believe everyone is judged by themselves alone and it’s not by me. So if we disagree I’m ok with it.

Didn't matter to me if you brought it here or not, I considered where I was before I posted. Haha.

I firmly believe in the "propaganda" and "falsehood if not flat out lie" of the holy Trinity. I absolutely believe Jesus is God.

My simplest answer is the greatest commandment, Hear, Oh Israel The Lord our God is one Lord. And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart and all thine soul and with all thdifferently. You know the rest, he makes it clear, to me, to love him with everything. If Im to love him like that and have no other Gods before him lest the anger of the Lord be kindled against me and destroy me from the face of the earth....I just think if he wasn't Jesus too, he would have mentioned it.

John 3:18. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I believe that begotten is defined differently. I define it as one of a kind. Its used in Hebrews 11:17 when it refers to Isaac as Abraham’s "only begotten son" (KJV). Abraham had more than one son, but Isaac was the only son he had by Sarah and the only son of the covenant.

I also think the "Father" and "Son," descriptive of God and Jesus, are human terms that help us understand the relationship between the different Persons of the Trinity.

I agree with you about forgiveness, but I thought you'd know what I meant. I believe to be forgiven for my sins I have to ask for for the forgiveness. If I die in my sin(s) I can't ask for forgiveness therefore I don't go to heaven. So actually my question is moot, but was curious what you thought.

Reason # 3 I dont get involved in these conversations....a lot of info I'm not sure I want to get into but might have to for you or anyone to understand without thinking I'm a hypocrite, because I'm not. But I'm not of the belief once saved always saved.

I'm actually in year 2 of a spiritual journey that I have good reason to believe I'm at the end of the beginning, or close to it. I guess I tell you that so some things might make sense later.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Didn't matter to me if you brought it here or not, I considered where I was before I posted. Haha.

I firmly believe in the "propaganda" and "falsehood if not flat out lie" of the holy Trinity. I absolutely believe Jesus is God.

My simplest answer is the greatest commandment, Hear, Oh Israel The Lord our God is one Lord. And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart and all thine soul and with all thdifferently. You know the rest, he makes it clear, to me, to love him with everything. If Im to love him like that and have no other Gods before him lest the anger of the Lord be kindled against me and destroy me from the face of the earth....I just think if he wasn't Jesus too, he would have mentioned it.

John 3:18. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I believe that begotten is defined differently. I define it as one of a kind. Its used in Hebrews 11:17 when it refers to Isaac as Abraham’s "only begotten son" (KJV). Abraham had more than one son, but Isaac was the only son he had by Sarah and the only son of the covenant.

I also think the "Father" and "Son," descriptive of God and Jesus, are human terms that help us understand the relationship between the different Persons of the Trinity.

I agree with you about forgiveness, but I thought you'd know what I meant. I believe to be forgiven for my sins I have to ask for for the forgiveness. If I die in my sin(s) I can't ask for forgiveness therefore I don't go to heaven. So actually my question is moot, but was curious what you thought.

Reason # 3 I dont get involved in these conversations....a lot of info I'm not sure I want to get into but might have to for you or anyone to understand without thinking I'm a hypocrite, because I'm not. But I'm not of the belief once saved always saved.

I'm actually in year 2 of a spiritual journey that I have good reason to believe I'm at the end of the beginning, or close to it. I guess I tell you that so some things might make sense later.

I don’t usually engage it the trinity debate because I feel it’s irrelevant really. It just doesn’t matter. He’s got the authority of G-d. That’s all that matters.

I’m not sure where I am on once saved always saved either. The parable of the sower seems to speak against it. But on the other had Saul was righteous which seems to be in favor of always saved judging by the way he ended his life.


Another place I differ from most believers is on The importance of getting to heaven. My attitude is I would love G-d if there was nothing after this life. If I’m judged and awarded an afterlife then I’ll take it. If I’m judged and deemed unacceptable then I’ll accept that too as G-d world be righteous and just to do so. Even so I’ll love G-d always.

Having said that, it’s my belief that I’m in good standing with the G-d of A,I and J...and Messiah whom He sent.

 

[Behr]

I don’t usually engage it the trinity debate because I feel it’s irrelevant really. It just doesn’t matter. He’s got the authority of G-d. That’s all that matters.

I’m not sure where I am on once saved always saved either. The parable of the sower seems to speak against it. But on the other had Saul was righteous which seems to be in favor of always saved judging by the way he ended his life.


Another place I differ from most believers is on The importance of getting to heaven. My attitude is I would love G-d if there was nothing after this life. If I’m judged and awarded an afterlife then I’ll take it. If I’m judged and deemed unacceptable then I’ll accept that too as G-d world be righteous and just to do so. Even so I’ll love G-d always.

Having said that, it’s my belief that I’m in good standing with the G-d of A,I and J...and Messiah whom He sent.

I hate using the "go to heaven" or "go to hell" thing as I agree with you, but sometimes its convenient to use in a discussion to get to the point.

I genuinely don't seek Jesus just to try to get to heaven Or to stay out of hell. I hope I'm wrong about some things though. "It ain't those parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand".

And I don't think I'm in good standing, today.

 

[vol445]

I hate using the "go to heaven" or "go to hell" thing as I agree with you, but sometimes its convenient to use in a discussion to get to the point.

I genuinely don't seek Jesus just to try to get to heaven Or to stay out of hell. I hope I'm wrong about some things though. "It ain't those parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand".

And I don't think I'm in good standing, today.

You are. But we all are on different parts. Lol. According to slices buddy rex he’s the only one right and he may be more wrong than any one