Shoop vs DeBord

#27
#27
Just remember this

We have had two different OCs with the same results


Its not who calls the plays but the plays they have to call

Jones' offensive philosophy is flawed
 
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#28
#28
I am pretty sure they are tied. Shoop if we are being honest is the bigger disappointment given his acclaim. DeBord on the other hand is a relic. I am still scratching my head about yesterday's game plan or lack there of. He did the defense no favors and when a ball carrier can go 10 to 20 yards untouched something is wrong with the defense regardless of who is playing. They just weren't in position to make plays and that is on the coach. Ps I think they both should get their arse out of the press box and start coaching from the sidelines.
 
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#29
#29
Can't put too much of what happened yesterday on Shoop. Anyone's defense would wear out when you practically do nothing at all offensively.
 
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#32
#32
Shoop will be fine. First season. Just now getting to sculpt the players he needs to fit his system.
Debord is another story. I realize he has many holes but you adjust the system to fit your personnel. We seem to keep trying to force a square peg in a round hole. There is a reason he didn't get picked up during his time away from football. If he was such a genius why didn't saban pick him up instead of kiffin? He was available?
Butch needs people who know X's and O's better than he does.
 
#33
#33
SobeVol said:
Shoop will be fine. First season. Just now getting to sculpt the players he needs to fit his system.
Debord is another story. I realize he has many holes but you adjust the system to fit your personnel. We seem to keep trying to force a square peg in a round hole. There is a reason he didn't get picked up during his time away from football. If he was such a genius why didn't saban pick him up instead of kiffin? He was available?
Butch needs people who know X's and O's better than he does.
Click to expand...

Butch needs to be multiple and be open to change or he won't be here in 2 years.
 
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#34
#34
Until you posted those stats............this team sucks on the stat side of things. UT returned 17 starters and they are worse than last year.............that can only mean one thing. The offense is very predictable and the defense, although scheme wise is good, is showing their depth is just adequate. Injuries have played some role on the defensive side, but the offense has little to no excuse their performance, I've see other freshman and sophomores on other teams play better. I beginning to doubt in the development of the OL and Receivers, DeBorg is not an elite OC and NOT creative in his play calling. Butch is loyal to a fault, and his job with suffer for it. If Dobbs is the best chance of UT winning yesterday, what does that say about the backup QBs?
 
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#35
#35
FlyFishnVol said:
Until you posted those stats............this team sucks on the stat side of things. UT returned 17 starters and they are worse than last year.............that can only mean one thing. The offense is very predictable and the defense, although scheme wise is good, is showing their depth is just adequate. Injuries have played some role on the defensive side, but the offense has little to no excuse their performance, I see other freshman and sophomores other team play better.
Click to expand...


This offense is very easy to figure out. For example when Vols line up with 2 stacked receivers on both sides have we run anything in that formation but Dobbs QB sneak?
 
#36
#36
MurphyVol said:
Factoring in injuries on both sides (also considering performances before the injury bug bit)

Who has had the better season so far?

DeBord:
Total O: 80th
Rushing: 72nd
Passing: 78th
Scoring: 63rd

Shoop:
Total D: 88th
Rushing: 107th
Passing: 43rd
Scoring: 84th
Click to expand...

Shoop's defense is on the field a little more than DeBord's offense. A lot of 3 and outs will make a defense look bad.
 
#37
#37
Nationdom said:
Butch needs to be multiple and be open to change or he won't be here in 2 years.
Click to expand...

Good comment, and I think this is the base of the issue. CBJ is so cemented in his offensive scheme that, he really has no other options, a once in a blue moon trick play, but that is it.

No one is saying is not a great recruiter and the players probably like him a lot, but from the fan base side of things, we've been down this road for a long time. Butch can not prepare a team for an elite program. Braun over Brains is not going to happen and if the UT wants to make that next step.......they better find someone who can coach like no other.....because this season will actually be the pinnacle of the Butch Jones era. Looking at the recruits someone knows something, because with UT's success last year and going 5-0......they should have been bottled necked at the door, but that is not the case.......so, what is it that ELITE athletes see in UT program that says "This program will take you to the next level"?

We all see it, everyone in the stands feels it, but no one with the balls is willing to look at Butch and say, fix it or you'll be coaching some community college somewhere, sorry, but when your in the SEC and making $4 million a year.......there is no HR sensitivity program or group hug session.........its put right in your face and you react.

Butch, now get out there and fix it!
 
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#38
#38
Shoop has not been as advertised. Neither have our "humongous, best in the country, no one can match the monsters" on the defensive front.

Debord has been average at best. Our biggest problem IMO has been the performance of the QB. Dormandy or Guar. could have done as well or better.
 
#39
#39
SDV said:
Totally agree Count. I hate this hurry up BS
Click to expand...

Hurry up is just one piece of the problem (a small piece). Putting the ball on the ground 7 times brings the defense back on. Three and outs brings them back on.

We need a lot of healing to happen in the next two weeks!
 
#40
#40
Keep in mind that it's only the half season results after we went through a gauntlet where 95% of teams wouldn't be able to win all four games. As the competition drops off a cliff and we get a much needed bye week, hopefully the rankings change for the better.
 
#42
#42
CountVolcula said:
Just remember this

We have had two different OCs with the same results


Its not who calls the plays but the plays they have to call

Jones' offensive philosophy is flawed
Click to expand...

Does no one remember a less than average UT team playing what was thought to be a real good Cincy team a few years ago?? Seems like the beat down looked something like yesterday. Don't think this offense system will work for the long haul in the SEC. Too fancy, takes too much time for players to learn (or something along this line) and when "next man up" is needed, seems to take to long to fit in.
 
#43
#43
MurphyVol said:
To me, it was alarming from day 1 that he tried to run this offense with Worley. That was a huge red flag to me. It's highly unlikely he will make changes.
Click to expand...

I have to agree. It's been a pattern of stubbornness and the inability to adjust to personnel.
 
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#44
#44
Volatility said:
Keep in mind that it's only the half season results after we went through a gauntlet where 95% of teams wouldn't be able to win all four games. As the competition drops off a cliff and we get a much needed bye week, hopefully the rankings change for the better.
Click to expand...

"When the competition drops off" ???? What have we been hearing?? We've gone some 20 games with ranked teams sense beating one of them? Not making much headway toward "rebuilding" to my way of seeing things. If you just keep beating "competition drop offs" you are just treading water and at some point will sink because top high school guys don't want to tread water. They want to swim to the top.
 
#45
#45
Nationdom said:
I have to agree. It's been a pattern of stubbornness and the inability to adjust to personnel.
Click to expand...

Stubborn seems to be the perfect description for Butch. Every time I see those slow developing run plays....

I hate to pay him a compliment but look at the way Kiffin has handled Crompton, Blake Sims and now Hurts. He played to their strengths instead of forcing them into a rigid system.

Meanwhile we have Dobbs anchored in the pocket. After he was sacked 3 times in one quarter I kept screaming roll the pocket roll the pocket move him around and finally they did that a little bit in the third quarter and they got a field goal out of it. Why did it take so long to try this and why do we only try it on one drive?

You have 3/5 of your line out and you trot out the same old game plan like nothing's changed?

I'm no coach and I've never pretended to be but if that's my team and I know I have 12 starters out I'm going to throw a different look at Bama I'm probably going to put in a lead blocker and I'm going to pound Bama with quick hitting plays up the gut and I would forget about trying to run laterally. I would also run as much clock as possible to try to shorten this game and hope for some turnovers. This game could have been much much closer.

Could we have won? No of course not but it didn't have to be this debacle
 
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#46
#46
Taking issue with the scheming is one thing, but the offense as well as injuries has plagued the defense. I wish we could see what Shoop is capable of with a steady offense and a healthy defense. And the easy argument here is everybody has injuries this time of the year. True, but not like this.
 
#48
#48
I still believe Shoop was a homerun hire. But as others have said, he doesn't get a lot (see: any) help from the offense. You can hold the opposing offense for a majority of the game, but if your offense can't put any points on the board or even sustain a drive, its gonna catch up and your defense is gonna pay for it. Also, FWIW, Shoop lost his best 3... THREE.. players that are not named Derek Barnett, by the 3rd game of the season. And many more injuries to defense have come after that. We've been getting decent bend-but-dont-break play out of 2nd and 3rd string defensive players. It's been enough to keep us in games, until we played the #1 team in the nation. Defense has been playing well, and probably a lot better than most people would have thought after losing the players we have.

DeBord, on the other hand... is truly terrible. Terrible. He wouldn't be fit to be OC of a Pee-Wee football team. He is outdated and painfully predictable. And whether it's him or coming down from Butch, something in our offensive coaching and play calling must change. Butch needs to make a Shoop-caliber hire for the offense. If DeBord stays past this season, something is wrong. Also, I agree with others posting here that a QB coach would go a long way too.
 
#49
#49
Offense has not helped Shoop with the turnovers and the 3 & outs this season. Couple that with the injuries, and our numbers are not going to look good on D at all this year.

While I'm not that impressed with the D so far, I'm willing to give him more time, especially if he sacks Martinez at the end of the season.

Speaking of coaches, I wonder if we could nab Jeff Grimes to replace Mahoney once the season ends? He did a good job at VT, and has done a pretty good job with LSUs oline.
 
#50
#50
I believe Shoop did bring a difference to the overall scheme, so there is likely some adjustment for the players. I have not had a chance to look at every play to see how we were lined up, but against Bama I definitely thought we should have gone to 3 linebackers. It looked like most of the damage was done running and short, not so much down the field in the air. It was a bit frustrating to see us stubbornly stay in the same formation and not adjust the defense to try to stop that. Of course our defense looked to be so worn down (Bama was both stronger than us, as well as faster)

Debord, and Dobbs, seemed to have the deer in headlights look. Alabama was whipping our line, but we never adjusted and moved the pocket away from the guys who were hurting us. Too many of the plays were out wide, and Alabama has too much speed for us to be able to beat them out there. The plays up the middle got too predictable. I think our first play from scrimmage, Hurd actually had a good run up the middle and got some nice yardage. That was the exception on the day. the rest of the time, things took too long to develop, and by the time they did, Alabama was ready to blow the play up. We had no tricks left, and Alabama watched film on us and knew exactly what to expect every time. In previous games, I noticed every time we went to bunched receivers, 2 to each side, it was a Dobbs run. Sure enough, we lined up like that and Bama sent everyone after Dobbs and got him in the backfield. That pretty much summed up our offense.
 
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