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05_never_again

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It was evident that Butch would tank the program back in 2015 with his poor game-day coaching, and further exacerbated by his staffing decisions in 2016 and 2017.
It was obvious there were problems with his gameday coaching in 2015, but it was reasonable to give him the benefit of the doubt and think he might be capable of making adjustments in the future. That team was extremely young and unaccustomed to being in a position to win against good teams like that.

After the South Carolina game in 2016, it was obvious he had learned nothing and his days here were numbered. Not that he should have been fired immediately after that game, just that he wasn't going to end up being the guy. The Vandy loss just reinforced that notion. Only Butch could bring back basically the entire 2015 team, which was very talented and went 5-3 in conference play, and get worse.
 

unfrozencvmanvol

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Let me know when you come up with some supporting data from this century.
download (27).jpeg I'll circle back with you when our Post-Fulmer winning percentage of .496 raises to the .670 winning percentage of Fulmer without Cutcliffe. Eat healthy, it might be a while, we would need to go 64-1 in the next 5 seasons to reach that level.
 
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HuntlandVolinColo

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It was evident that Butch would tank the program back in 2015 with his poor game-day coaching, and further exacerbated by his staffing decisions in 2016 and 2017.
He wanted so much control over the offense that he ran off DeBord (pretty decent OC with Dobbs on the field) and his best coaches and he ended up hiring Larry Scott because no one else would take the job without having adequate authority and responsibilities.

While there is no proof of it, Bob Shoop has been a standout DC before and after his stint with jones. He had to be restricted or constrained in some way by booch.
 

West Vol

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View attachment 211194 I'll circle back with you when our Post-Fulmer winning percentage of .496 raises to the .670 winning percentage of Fulmer without Cutcliffe. Eat healthy, it might be a while, we would need to go 64-1 in the next 5 seasons to reach that level.
I'll circle back when we win the same number of championships Phil won in his last ten years. Oh. That didn't take long.
 

unfrozencvmanvol

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I'll circle back when we win the same number of championships Phil won in his last ten years. Oh. That didn't take long.
Hopefully, we'll win 3 post-Fulmer division titles soon, we've got to win 1 first though. The soonest you could be circling back to me on that would be around Thanksgiving 2021.
 

05_never_again

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View attachment 211194 I'll circle back with you when our Post-Fulmer winning percentage of .496 raises to the .670 winning percentage of Fulmer without Cutcliffe. Eat healthy, it might be a while, we would need to go 64-1 in the next 5 seasons to reach that level.
Fulmer wasn't fired because his overall winning percentage was too low. His overall winning percentage for his career is great, and even just from 2005-08 isn't that bad. It sure as hell isn't bad compared to what we've experienced since then.

From 2002 until he was fired, Phil went 8-13 (.381) against Florida, Georgia, and Alabama. That's ultimately why he was fired. He was winning just over 1 out of every 3 of those games, meaning that on average we were losing to Florida + Georgia, or Georgia + Alabama, or whatever combination you pick every year. By the end of his tenure, he was not only losing those games, but was getting absolutely embarrassed in them (2008 Florida/Alabama, 2007 Florida/Alabama). That is nowhere near good enough here over an extended period of time. We already weren't very competitive against our biggest rivals, and have not played well against them collectively since the late 1990s. Richt and Urban were eating his lunch on the recruiting trail, particularly in the 2006 and 2008 classes, which were unbelievably bad by Tennessee standards.

Now, since he's been fired of course, our record against those schools has reached levels of unbelievable embarrassment (4-26, .133). But let's not act like things were going swimmingly when he was fired.
 
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unfrozencvmanvol

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Fulmer got himself fired, in my opinion. I love Fulmer dont get me wrong, but he would have been gone before 2008 if Cutcliffe wouldnt have come back. Thats who I believe his success in 07 and 08 can be tied to. He was 39-24 from the 04 season to 08. Without Cutcliffe he was 20-16. Even that 2004 season that had 10 wins he was barely winning. Only 4 wins in that season were 14 points or more and only 1(South Carolina) was from the SEC. That included a 2-9 Vandy team, 2-9 Kentucky, and a 4- 7 Ole Miss.
Slicing and dicing that data set, Bear Bryant really sucked too if you look at his record against Auburn, Tennessee, and LSU in 1969-1970 (0-6), don't think that wouldn't have been a thread on Bama Online in 1970 if only Al Gore had thought to invent the internet sooner.
 
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unfrozencvmanvol

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General Neyland went 9-9-2 in 1947 and 1948, including 4-6-1 in conference play. Fortunately we didn't fire him though because he went 11-1 and 10-1 in 1950 and 51 respectively.
 
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05_never_again

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Slicing and dicing that data set, Bear Bryant really sucked if you look at his record against Auburn, Tennessee, and LSU in 1969-1970 (0-6), don't think that wouldn't have been a thread on Bama Online in 1970 if only Al Gore had thought to invent the internet sooner.
You joke, but if the Bear was coaching in today's climate even he might not have survived his 1967-70 dry spell. There would have been claims that he's washed up, doesn't have it anymore, etc. and might have been forced to resign, if not operate on a screaming hot seat. Things were different in those days, probably for the better.

If from 2019-22 Saban went 8-2, 8-3, 6-5, and 6-5, you know they'd make him retire. No doubt in my mind.
 

unfrozencvmanvol

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You joke, but if the Bear was coaching in today's climate even he might not have survived his 1967-70 dry spell. There would have been claims that he's washed up, doesn't have it anymore, etc. and might have been forced to resign, if not operate on a screaming hot seat. Things were different in those days, probably for the better.

If from 2019-22 Saban went 8-2, 8-3, 6-5, and 6-5, you know they'd make him retire. No doubt in my mind.
I agree wholeheartedly.
 

volsrock09

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Slicing and dicing that data set, Bear Bryant really sucked too if you look at his record against Auburn, Tennessee, and LSU in 1969-1970 (0-6), don't think that wouldn't have been a thread on Bama Online in 1970 if only Al Gore had thought to invent the internet sooner.
The last 5 years of his tenure isnt the most relevant stat when trying to decide how the futures going to look?
 

unfrozencvmanvol

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Division title. That’s what we’ve come down to. Inventing titles.
Being champion of your division is a real thing, always has been. At Tennessee we historically don't think a lot of them but they hang a banner at South Carolina for your boy Steve Spurrier's division title there. I bet you folks will be doing donuts around here when we get another one too. Haven't had one since 2007, have barely sniffed one actually.
 

West Vol

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Being champion of your division is a real thing, always has been. At Tennessee we historically don't think a lot of them but they hang a banner at South Carolina for your boy Steve Spurrier's division title there. I bet you folks will be doing donuts around here when we get another one too. Haven't had one since 2007, have barely sniffed one actually.
It’s not a championship. It’s a best record amongst 6-7 teams that don’t even play the same schedule. That 2007 team got annhilated by Florida and then lucked out that the Gators couldn’t take care of business against their West opponents.

Keep on boasting about Fulmer’s “good” year when he got run out of the stadium by Florida and a mediocre Bama squad.
 

unfrozencvmanvol

We Come From France...Alabama
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It’s not a championship. It’s a best record amongst 6-7 teams that don’t even play the same schedule. That 2007 team got annhilated by Florida and then lucked out that the Gators couldn’t take care of business against their West opponents.

Keep on boasting about Fulmer’s “good” year when he got run out of the stadium by Florida and a mediocre Bama squad.
2007 UF lost to UGA bro, who we destroyed.

Also, there are so many references to sec division championships and division titles on the internet it is going to take you, West Vol, awhile to straighten everyone out, but you can start here: Tennessee still trying to end SEC East title drought
 

West Vol

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Being champion of your division is a real thing, always has been. At Tennessee we historically don't think a lot of them but they hang a banner at South Carolina for your boy Steve Spurrier's division title there. I bet you folks will be doing donuts around here when we get another one too. Haven't had one since 2007, have barely sniffed one actually.
Do you read the things you post? I agree division “titles” are meaningless crap that garbage programs like South Carolina celebrate. That seems to be the level to which you aspire.
 

West Vol

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2007 UF lost to UGA bro, who we destroyed.

Also, there are so many references to sec division championships and division titles on the internet it is going to take you, West Vol, awhile to straighten everyone out, but you can start here: Tennessee still trying to end SEC East title drought
Yes. And they’d have the tie breaker over us had they not lost to a couple of teams we never faced. It’s a pretty stupid system. South Carolina went undefeated against Eastern opponents a few years ago and didn’t even “win” the East.
 

unfrozencvmanvol

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Do you read the things you post? I agree division “titles” are meaningless crap that garbage programs like South Carolina celebrate. That seems to be the level to which you aspire.
It's a real title, if a lesser one, Florida used to hang theirs. You continue to indict your own argument, acknowledging that we aren't even good enough to claim any crappy division titles since firing CPF, though CPF won 3 in the 10 year period you prescribed.
 

volsrock09

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I was referring to your last 5 years without Cutcliffe data set.
Ah, gotcha. The reason i brought that up is because i believe theres a correlation of Cutcliffe being the OC and Fulmers success in the later years. Offense was terrible in 05 and 08 without him, but with him they exploited matchups and produced. He managed to either get complacent or lost the fire, but i remember in 06 when a commentator said he came in a meeting room after practice in 06 flipping tables and upset about how it was going and the players said it woke them up. That being said, I dont believe it would have gotten as bad as it has been without him and he may have turned it around again if he stayed. UT had the opportunity to do what UGA did after Richt and completely crapped the bed.
 

unfrozencvmanvol

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Yes. And they’d have the tie breaker over us had they not lost to a couple of teams we never faced. It’s a pretty stupid system. South Carolina went undefeated against Eastern opponents a few years ago and didn’t even “win” the East.
And we'd have finished 2 games ahead of UF in 2007 instead of 1 if we hadn't have lost to a team UF never played (Bama). You seem desperate to undermine what success we have had in this century.
 

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