Scholarship limits, college baseball careers come with a cost, not just $$

#1

OldTimer

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#1
I have no confirmation we are doing this but I wanted to know this boards thoughts

Would you be ok with this if your son was being offered with such promises????


The player is signing a scholarship for 60% in year1. They are told they aren't getting anything for year2 and then back on the 60% for year 3. Year 4 is back to being a walk on



Thoughts???
It would completely depend on what other offers he would have and what is the sole reason is he choosing a school. Is it about the scholarship money, is it about the school/academics, is it about the coach and the program, is it about playing team. All of these things would be evaluated when choosing a school. They don’t have to take the deal. They can choose somewhere else if there is a better offer. In this day in age a 60 percent scholarship is pretty damn good. Although 2 of the years you aren’t getting any money. Have you heard of programs doing this?
Yes I know at least a few programs are doing it. I had suspensions we are but no proof. It's a brilliant yet cutthroat way of doing things. Virtually assures lots of $ to spend in each class and only the really good players every make it on the roster for year3.
Yeah and it leaves year 2 open so the money can be free and they can recruit in that class knowing the money is there. They will know if the incoming recruit will make it or not in year 1. If they cut him that year the money comes off the books in year 3 anyway.
It’s essentially a 30 percent scholarship for 4 years. Only thing I wouldn’t like as a parent in year 4 is not having leverage against pro teams if you don’t like where you went in the draft. I see the coaches point of view because they want to knows years in advance if the money will be open or not because they aren’t sure if the recruit will be there. I guess that stuff could be confidential but the pro scouts usually know everything.
I don't know if any of that is going on, but I know this. No athlete on a scholarship, male or female, should have to be on a partial.

Not with the money the AD brings in every year.

It is ridiculous, beyond ridiculous...10 million a year would probably fund full rides, think about it...That's about Nick Saban's salary for a year...not saying he doesn't deserve it, but...it says something about our collective priorities in terms of education.


Back to baseball recruiting...


If we want to continue on this topic, we should start a thread outside this one which is for recruiting/commitments/signees.
agreed this would make a terrific stand alone topic.............lots of discussion over the years about recruiting/scholarships advantages and disadvantages per school and conferences.

With that said, I would like confirmation from others however I firmly believe that ALL incoming players realize they can be cut/letgo/released after any season, its the nature of the beast in todays climate in college athletics. Not saying its right but it is what it is.........
 
#2

OldTimer

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#2
just a little background on the NCAA and its scholarship limitations:

The NCAA set a roster limit at 35 players and restricted the number of players on scholarship to 27 starting with the 2009 season. Before, teams could have an unlimited amount of players on their roster and on scholarship. Some NCAA teams had 40 to 45 players on the roster, and all of them were receiving some scholarship money.

There was one more change made: No scholarship player could receive less than 25 percent of a full scholarship, a stunning tweak that sent coaches scrambling.

Not only were coaches now banned from having more than 35 players on their roster. They could no longer offer players a less than a 25% scholarship, something done often to woo a player to college.

Baseball scholarships work differently than those in football and basketball. The NCAA breaks sports into two scholarship categories: head count sports and equivalency sports.

Prospects offered a scholarship to play a head count sport (football, basketball, etc.) must be offered a full, 100 percent scholarship. Those who play equivalency sports (baseball, softball, etc.) are allowed to receive partial scholarships.

For example, basketball has 13 full scholarships to offer for a five-man sport. Baseball has 11.7 scholarships for a nine-man sport.
Basketball can’t divide the 13. Baseball can but, before 2009, you could divide those 11.7 into partial scholarships however you saw fit. Now its restricted to dividing them by no more than 25 percent of a scholarship and to just 27 players on a roster of 35.

The NCAA adopted the rules to reduce a high transfer rate and poor Academic Progress Rate scores. It has accomplished that, said Damani Leech, managing director of championships and alliances for the NCAA overseeing baseball.

“It was all geared to a more stability in college baseball,” he said.

It’s done something else.

For one, powerhouse programs can’t stack their rosters with a plethora of players receiving 1 to 5 percent of a scholarship — an amount known in baseball circles as a “book scholarship” because it covered a student’s textbook fees.

Mid-major programs are getting highly recruited players who normally would have attended a major program on a small percentage of a scholarship. Now that these major schools must offer at least 25 percent and have just 35 spots, the Stony Brooks of the world are grabbing a handful of top players.

“Because of allotment of scholarship money and roster sizes, you get talent more evenly spread out than in years past,”
 
#3

Vols reporter

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#3
Vandy?????

I am ok with it and believe me Tennessee is very creative. There are people here who you would think would be getting money and don’t.
Then there are also people here that could not walk on other teams getting 70-80-90 % scholarships.

Go figure. It’s like the NFL salary cap....
 
#6
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#6
"I know you know this, but baseball players can also qualify for academic scholarship money, which would offset the partial scholarship.

But, it's not a money issue. It's a Title 9 issue. I am sure any SEC school would be glad to shell out more scholarship money for better players, but they can't.

Back to recruiting...so we really have 4 catchers committed for this year?"

~ VolGee

Well VG, I know that's what everyone says, that it's a Title IX issue. It really isn't. Title IX is a minimum standard, really. The penalty for not complying is the loss of federal funds. I don't think they would take the funds from a school who was going beyond what the law requires. In other words, it would be MORE fair to ALL of the athletes.

If anything, the schools would argue all schools may not be able to afford it. In other words, Universities, like UT, BAMA, USC, OSU etc...hide behind Title IX and then use the funds to pay ridiculous salaries and for lavish infrastructure.

I know the argument will be made that football pays for everything and it might not be fair to treat the golfers, rowers, tennis players, baseball and softball players the same as the football players because those sports are not revenue producers. I can understand that argument I suppose, I just don't agree with it.

Hell, with the money we have paid coaches NOT to coach football for us, we could have put all athletes on a full ride for like 5-10 years.

As it pertains to baseball specifically, we'd immediately have a recruiting advantage over many schools and it would level the field with the Vanderbilts and Virginias of the world.

I know this is kind of an "out there" argument, I don't expect anyone to agree with me, it's just something I've thought about for a few years now.




GBO!!!
 
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#7

VolGee4

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#7
"I know you know this, but baseball players can also qualify for academic scholarship money, which would offset the partial scholarship.

But, it's not a money issue. It's a Title 9 issue. I am sure any SEC school would be glad to shell out more scholarship money for better players, but they can't.

Back to recruiting...so we really have 4 catchers committed for this year?"

~ VolGee

Well VG, I know that's what everyone says, that it's a Title IX issue. It really isn't. Title IX is a minimum standard, really. The penalty for not complying is the loss of federal funds. I don't think they would take the funds from a school who was going beyond what the law requires. In other words, it would be MORE fair to ALL of the athletes.

If anything, the schools would argue all schools may not be able to afford it. In other words, Universities, like UT, BAMA, USC, OSU etc...hide behind Title IX and then use the funds to pay ridiculous salaries and for lavish infrastructure.

I know the argument will be made that football pays for everything and it might not be fair to treat the golfers, rowers, tennis players, baseball and softball players the same as the football players because those sports are not revenue producers. I can understand that argument I suppose, I just don't agree with it.

Hell, with the money we have paid coaches NOT to coach football for us, we could have put all athletes on a full ride for like 5-10 years.

As it pertains to baseball specifically, we'd immediately have a recruiting advantage over many schools and it would level the field with the Vanderbilts and Virginias of the world.

I know this is kind of an "out there" argument, I don't expect anyone to agree with me, it's just something I've thought about for a few years now.




GBO!!!
I guess I don’t follow you on Title 9 being a minimum standard. I kind of understand what you are trying to say, but scholarships to women have to equal those to men. With football taking so many, that leaves having to match that for women. It’s why UT just has women volleyball, soccer, and rowing teams. Don’t know about the others, but men’s soccer is a club sport. In addition, most women sports offer more scholarships than their men counterparts.

The NCAA has to cap the numbers for each sport so as to create a level playing field. Otherwise, Alabama could have 125 on their football roster (as long as they match that scholarship amount with women). But it’s similar to a salary cap in professional sports. Why there are 11.7 for baseball, I have no idea. I think it sucks too, and I believe SEC schools would love to pay more because they would get better players. But the cap has to be set at some number to balance out the money for women.

The money spent on lavish facilities benefits all of the athletes. They may not truly be getting a full ride, but the use of the facilities can be quantified. When you truly try to put a value on the services they receive, it adds up. Training facilities, food courts, nutrition centers, academic centers, nicer dorms are all perks. Because the schools can’t give out more money in certain sports, this is a way to reward the athletes (in addition to attracting the best athletes).

This is just the way I see it.
 
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#8

TNfan#2

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#8
just a little background on the NCAA and its scholarship limitations:

The NCAA set a roster limit at 35 players and restricted the number of players on scholarship to 27 starting with the 2009 season. Before, teams could have an unlimited amount of players on their roster and on scholarship. Some NCAA teams had 40 to 45 players on the roster, and all of them were receiving some scholarship money.

There was one more change made: No scholarship player could receive less than 25 percent of a full scholarship, a stunning tweak that sent coaches scrambling.

Not only were coaches now banned from having more than 35 players on their roster. They could no longer offer players a less than a 25% scholarship, something done often to woo a player to college.

Baseball scholarships work differently than those in football and basketball. The NCAA breaks sports into two scholarship categories: head count sports and equivalency sports.

Prospects offered a scholarship to play a head count sport (football, basketball, etc.) must be offered a full, 100 percent scholarship. Those who play equivalency sports (baseball, softball, etc.) are allowed to receive partial scholarships.

For example, basketball has 13 full scholarships to offer for a five-man sport. Baseball has 11.7 scholarships for a nine-man sport.
Basketball can’t divide the 13. Baseball can but, before 2009, you could divide those 11.7 into partial scholarships however you saw fit. Now its restricted to dividing them by no more than 25 percent of a scholarship and to just 27 players on a roster of 35.

The NCAA adopted the rules to reduce a high transfer rate and poor Academic Progress Rate scores. It has accomplished that, said Damani Leech, managing director of championships and alliances for the NCAA overseeing baseball.

“It was all geared to a more stability in college baseball,” he said.

It’s done something else.

For one, powerhouse programs can’t stack their rosters with a plethora of players receiving 1 to 5 percent of a scholarship — an amount known in baseball circles as a “book scholarship” because it covered a student’s textbook fees.

Mid-major programs are getting highly recruited players who normally would have attended a major program on a small percentage of a scholarship. Now that these major schools must offer at least 25 percent and have just 35 spots, the Stony Brooks of the world are grabbing a handful of top players.

“Because of allotment of scholarship money and roster sizes, you get talent more evenly spread out than in years past,”
So wait, the NCAA basically modified scholarships towards baseball in a way that actually weakens the so called Power 5 programs while actually improving the ability of the Mid Major programs?

I always figured even in sports outside of football and basketball, baring some really obscure stuff or new stuff like Womens Bowling or something that they'd always try and make sure that the so called Power 5 conferences where always in a position of dominance.
 

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