Russians, released from treaty by Trump, promise newmissile system in next two years

#178
#178
Mick said:
So Romney was wrong? You brought him up as an illustration of Obama being wrong. So which is it?
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My point wasn't to prove either one of them as being wrong. My point is that politicians say things purely for political purposes. Imagine that!

In 2012, there was a Republican narrative that Putin had become aggressive because of Obama/Hillary's "Russian Reset" and Obama being soft on our adversaries generally. Hence Romney talking up a Russian threat. Obama and Dems laughed at the assertion.

Now, since Trump can be so strongly associated with Russia, Russia and Putin have been transformed into the most evil forces the world has ever seen in the eyes of the left, when just a few years ago they were laughed at as being suggested as a big adversary.
 
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#179
#179
05_never_again said:
My point wasn't to prove either one of them as being wrong. My point is that politicians say things purely for political purposes. Imagine that!

In 2012, there was a Republican narrative that Putin had become aggressive because of Obama/Hillary's "Russian Reset" and Obama being soft on our adversaries generally. Hence Romney talking up a Russian threat. Obama and Dems laughed at the assertion.

Now, since Trump can be so strongly associated with Russia, Russia and Putin have been transformed into the most evil forces the world has ever seen in the eyes of the left, when just a few years ago they were laughed at as being suggested as a big adversary.
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I know what your point was. "But Obama".
 
#180
#180
Mick said:
I know what your point was. "But Obama".
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Yes, because Dems are the ones who have really flipped on it.

Republicans pooh-pooh lots of claims about Trump collusion with Russia, but I'm not sure of many, or any, who would say that Putin isn't a geopolitical threat.
 
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#181
#181
05_never_again said:
Yes, because Dems are the ones who have really flipped on it.

Republicans pooh-pooh lots of claims about Trump collusion with Russia, but I'm not sure of many, or any, who would say that Putin isn't a geopolitical threat.
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Dems were definitely short sighted about Russia. Obama laughing off Romney in 2012 does not look good. But Republicans are the weaker party on Russia until Trump is gone.
 
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#182
#182
tvolsfan said:
Dems were definitely short sighted about Russia. Obama laughing off Romney in 2012 does not look good. But Republicans are the weaker party on Russia until Trump is gone.
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How so, explain please.
 
#183
#183
Is there a mod to change the thread title to something a little less Simple Jack?
 
#184
#184
Grand Vol said:
Here's the thing...the INF Treaty did more to secure the Soviet Union than it did to secure the US. Sure, it helped NATO be more secure since there weren't stockpiles of nukes lying all over Europe (East and West) but it did little to change the nuclear paradigm in regards to our own nation's safety. The Russians have a whole lot more to lose by playing that game of violations than we do.
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Begs the question why they're messing around medium-range missiles? They can already reach Europe via subs.
 
#185
#185
Velo Vol said:
Begs the question why they're messing around medium-range missiles? They can already reach Europe via subs.
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Because they can?

You have to remember, in the latter portion of the Bush Admin and through the Obama Admin, Putin loved playing games and seeing just how far he could push and get away with it. Personally, I'd say it started with the Georgian Invasion and continued on from there. Bush never really reacted to that (being involved in Iraq and Afghanistan wasn't helping matters). The Russians objected to the Missile Defense Shield that was going up in Eastern Europe. Bush forged ahead, Obama cancelled it. Yet another "win" for the Russians and Putin. The Crimea is another case of "pushing the boundaries" Putin has done. Without serious reaction other than the sanctions. Basing forces in Syria...selling arms to Iran...etc, etc, etc.

Yes, Ras. We know... (you know it's coming)

I'd tend to think this is yet another attempt by Putin to see just how far he can push the boundaries and get away with it. The difference in this instance, even though you won't agree, is Trump. He has taken a different avenue with nearly everything in regards to foreign relations. Some have worked out or are working out, others maybe not so much. Time will tell if he is able to deal differently with Putin over this hubbub and coming out with a
"win" or even a draw.

Shut up, LG. Nobody wants to hear it. (preemptive strike of my own)

Putin loves to play games. Probably going back to his KGB days. I don't think he's going to be as stupid as to re-occupy the Baltic States or start a war in Europe, but he doesn't mind yanking our chain or NATO's chain and chuckling when it suits his mood.

Right, Mick, whatever you say... (yet another first strike on the inbound commentary from the peanut gallery)

Overall, I think he's doing so because he thinks he can get away with it. Or he's just seeing how far he can get away with it before we've finally said "enough." I'd tend to think withdrawing from the Treaty was an unexpected move by us as we'd, in the past at least, negotiate first then threaten to leave and finally withdraw as a last option. I don't know if there were negotiations going on behind the scenes, but I'd tend to think we have something planned. Also, in case you missed it, Trump did throw down a gauntlet of his own at the SOTU. Basically said we would outspend and outperform the Russians in that area. It's only been a few days so let's see how the Russians react.
 
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#188
#188
Lavrov Slams "NATO-Centric" Approach To Crises While Extending Hand To US On Nuclear Treaty

But concerning this "disintegration" the conference has already included a significant overture made by the Russian representative hoping to open the door to negotiations with the United States over the future of now shaky arms treaties between the two countries following the historic US withdrawal from the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF) within the last month. In the tit-for-tat accusations and lashing out that followed at the beginning of February, Putin alarmingly accused Washington of also imperiling in the long term the landmark New START treaty, signed in 2010 and set to expire in 2021. It aims to reduce the total number of strategic nuclear missile launchers by half.
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#190
#190
Mick said:
Putin: We'll target USA if Washington deploys missiles in Europe | Reuters

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia will respond to any U.S. deployment of short or intermediate-range nuclear weapons in Europe by targeting not only the countries where they are stationed, but the United States itself, President Vladimir Putin said on Wednesday.


Wag the dog for Grand, hog, and bham.
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Ummm I’m really scared now , here I assumed Russia was already targeting the United States ... when did this change and how do we stop them mick ? I bet if we get them to sign one of those treaty thingys they won’t target us anymore only countries in Europe . Amirite ?
 
#191
#191
0nelilreb said:
Ummm I’m really scared now , here I assumed Russia was already targeting the United States ... when did this change and how do we stop them mick ? I bet if we get them to sign one of those treaty thingys they won’t target us anymore only countries in Europe . Amirite ?
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Pulling out of a treaty that greatly benefited our allies did absolutely nothing to benefit us. Glad you see it that way too.
 
#192
#192
Mick said:
Pulling out of a treaty that greatly benefited our allies did absolutely nothing to benefit us. Glad you see it that way too.
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So it changed nothing for us because they have always targeted the US , it changed nothing for our allies because they have always targeted them also . I’m glad we agree that this is what Russia does and any time someone does something they don’t like Putin puts out a scare statement . Thanks for pointing it out to us that Putin’s being Putin .. again .
 
#193
#193
0nelilreb said:
So it changed nothing for us because they have always targeted the US , it changed nothing for our allies because they have always targeted them also . I’m glad we agree that this is what Russia does and any time someone does something they don’t like Putin puts out a scare statement . Thanks for pointing it out to us that Putin’s being Putin .. again .
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Our allies mean nothing to Trump and they see this. We are now a weaker nation without the support of our allies. Good job red hatted mentally challenged people. The level of ignorance to this fact is remarkable from the people embracing the Nationalist movement. Alienate ourselves and weaken global alliances is the only damn thing Trump has done by pushing his nationalist agenda.
 
#194
#194
Mick said:
Our allies mean nothing to Trump and they see this. We are now a weaker nation without the support of our allies. Good job red hatted mentally challenged people. The level of ignorance to this fact is remarkable from the people embracing the Nationalist movement. Alienate ourselves and weaken global alliances is the only damn thing Trump has done by pushing his nationalist agenda.
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Maybe Germany can talk Putin out of targeting the EU since they are so close with Russia . When they start acting like they talk publicly I’ll start caring more , until then .. meh
 
#195
#195
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#196
#196
hog88 said:
Guess we better tuck our tail and run. Big bully threatened us.
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So you didn't have the foresight that Russia would probably do this in response to the treaty pullout? Are we going to get that nuke buildup in Europe that you wanted?
 
#197
#197
Mick said:
So you didn't have the foresight that Russia would probably do this in response to the treaty pullout? Are we going to get that nuke buildup in Europe that you wanted?
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I fully expected Putin to puff his chest out and make threats.
 
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#200
#200
hog88 said:
Exceed his bluster and force him to outspend his resources.
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Sorry hog a Country that is less that $1T in debt is in better shape than a country that is $22T + in debt. Shouldn't Putin at least get a nickname at this point?
 
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