Risk Mgmt look at Major Coordinator changes

[MrVolton]

OP makes some good points. If we are going to run the existing offensive system regardless, then might as well promote from within. Pair Larry Scott with Ken Dorsey, Chris Weinke, or Bo Hardegree and that could be pretty solid.

 

[Dougie_D]

He's not on the hot seat coming in. That's what I meant. The new AD could be fine with a 7-6 record next year for all we know. Or could fire Butch just because he's not his guy he wanted anyways. The expectations are always the same for any team. To win championships.

But I don't think Butch will be on hot seat until we know what happens on the field with W/L.

I still believe he's coming in an offensive squad where they aren't so hung up with his scheme.

 

[volfan102455]

What is the average tenure of OCs and DCs? Did Fulmer only have 3 OCs and one DC. Majors might have had about 15 in the same length of service. Butch has had what, 4 in 4 years and will have 5 in 5. I doubt that Neyland even had coordinators.

CBJ has had 2 DC's in 5 years. This will be his 3rd OC in 5 years.

I'm not sure that is worse than a lot of schools. It's not like it was in Fulmer's and Major's days when coaches stayed put for a long time. I think the parity that is in place in college football causes a lot of movement with the coaches at all level.

 

[TNnative]

Someone's grouchy....

Not at all. But it gets tiring to read the same points spun the same way in 50 other threads.

 

[TNnative]

OP makes some good points. If we are going to run the existing offensive system regardless, then might as well promote from within. Pair Larry Scott with Ken Dorsey, Chris Weinke, or Bo Hardegree and that could be pretty solid.

The big question is how well can Scott dial up plays. Aside from that, his valuable recruiting ties make him a coach I hope we hang onto awhile. Pairing in a solid QB coach might prevent the slow starts. Hopefully.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

CBJ has had 2 DC's in 5 years. This will be his 3rd OC in 5 years.

I'm not sure that is worse than a lot of schools. It's not like it was in Fulmer's and Major's days when coaches stayed put for a long time. I think the parity that is in place in college football causes a lot of movement with the coaches at all level.

I think Majors had 11 in 16 years.

Fulmer actually had 5 in 16 years. 3 OCs and 2 DCs. I'd forgotten that Marmie was the DC for Fulmer's first 2 seasons before Chief took over in 1995.

Kiffin... 2 in 1 obviously.

Dooley, 3 in 3 years. 1 OC and 2 DCs.

Butch... 4 going in 5, probably 6 if he's here for a 6th year.

I'm kind of surprised that both Dooley and Jones had as many coordinators as years while Majors was close to half of that pace.

 

[Dougie_D]

OP makes some good points. If we are going to run the existing offensive system regardless, then might as well promote from within. Pair Larry Scott with Ken Dorsey, Chris Weinke, or Bo Hardegree and that could be pretty solid.

Dorsey, Weinke, and Hardegree aren't going to be just the QB coach. They are current QB coaches in NFL. If any come to TN they'll be our OC/QB coach

 

[Dougie_D]

Bottom line is that Butchs #1 priority right now is to find a QB coach. Ideally an OC/QB who will run with Butchs offensive scheme. If none express interest in doing OC, then the OC job is handed down to Larry Scott. That's how I see the situation now.

 

[MrVolton]

Dorsey, Weinke, and Hardegree aren't going to be just the QB coach. They are current QB coaches in NFL. If any come to TN they'll be our OC/QB coach

Weinke might as he is currently out of a job as far as I know. I do see Dorsey as a bit of a pipe dream. Hardegree might get on board for something like QB/co-OC or QB/passing game coordinator or something.

 

[terrypedigo]

If you look at TN coaches track record - making a big philisophical change while on hot seat hasn't worked out at all.

Fulmer - Clawson 1&done
Dooley - Sunseri 1&done

If you're Jones, here is what your looking at in review

1. You just set offensive records in your offense but lost your leader
2. Your greatest weaknesses this year were discipline and injuries.
3. Your greatest strengths was your QB whom you're losing

So how do you address each?

1. Don't rock offensive strategy. Numbers don't lie. However you need better situational play calling. Numbers may have been good but offense was inconsistent at times.

2. Injuries and discipline are often the foundations of a S&C program. The S&C coach spends more time with players than any other coach. S&C is bedrock of team identity.

3. Need to develop QB to replace Dobbs. You don't have the luxury of time right now.

All of this taken into account, I can see why Jones isn't taking a huge risk in resetting offensive structure.

That said, offensive line is #4 risk and needs addressed. We have not had good offensive line play (both run and pass) since Fulmer. Would love to see an upgrade here.

Why do we go back and play real football this 7 on 7 is a joke look at bama when its crunch time they line up and give there big back the ball and kick your azz wait in the NC game Nick will run the I alot and run the ball down the tigers throat and we will still be playing 7 on 7 in 17 watching bama and Michigan play for the NC with there full backs and tight ends.:thud:I WILL CALL THE NC GAME IN 18 REMEMBER THIS POST WRITE IT DOWN DONT GIVE A DAMN IF YOU LIKE IT OR NOT BAMA AND MICHIGAN WILL PLAY FOR THE NC NEXT YEAR JIMMY MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING FOR BAMA because he knows running the ball and a strong defense wins NC's.::thud:This 7 on 7 put up the stats but it doesnt put rings on your fingers.hmy:

 

[wmcovol]

I don't see the new AD telling the UT Board he wants to bite off $12-16 mil in buyout money in his first yr just to FIRE a coach who has rebuilt the program and bite off $20+mil more in guarantees to hire another coach that half the fan base won't be happy with either. Plus lose several key players in transfers.

 

[sjt18]

If you look at TN coaches track record - making a big philisophical change while on hot seat hasn't worked out at all.

Fulmer - Clawson 1&done
Dooley - Sunseri 1&done

If you're Jones, here is what your looking at in review

1. You just set offensive records in your offense but lost your leader
2. Your greatest weaknesses this year were discipline and injuries.
3. Your greatest strengths was your QB whom you're losing

So how do you address each?

1. Don't rock offensive strategy. Numbers don't lie. However you need better situational play calling. Numbers may have been good but offense was inconsistent at times.

2. Injuries and discipline are often the foundations of a S&C program. The S&C coach spends more time with players than any other coach. S&C is bedrock of team identity.

3. Need to develop QB to replace Dobbs. You don't have the luxury of time right now.

All of this taken into account, I can see why Jones isn't taking a huge risk in resetting offensive structure.

That said, offensive line is #4 risk and needs addressed. We have not had good offensive line play (both run and pass) since Fulmer. Would love to see an upgrade here.

You're not wrong and Jones is all but certain to look at it this way in part because he has blind spots.

The issue... the 900 lb gorilla... is #4. There is a low possibility IMO that the OL play is a function of development and coaching.

The failures being system related seems to better fit the evidence from Jones' four years. In year one, he had 5 NFL caliber OL's. They stayed healthy all year. They were an effective OL on a really bad team the year before... with a QB who had feet of stone worse than Worley. That OL took a significant step back in Jones' system. Someone here at the time posted a quote from a former UT OL that what they were trying to teach the OL's didn't make sense and wouldn't work in the SEC. That was the peak of Jones' OL performances over his tenure. Each of the last 3 have been bad. The last two have been rescued by Dobbs' mobility which as you pointed out is now gone.


Whether you are right or I'm right, Jones job depends on making the right decision. If he makes the wrong decision, the only remaining question is whether the powers that be fire him before the roster talent declines to a point about the same as when he arrived.

 

[BGKYVol]

Thanks for telling everyone things we were all well aware of.

If everyone was aware of this, they would not be crying for an OC with a different philosophy than CBJ's.

You have now told me something that I was not aware of.... You are obnoxious.

Thanks.

 

[livefaith]

Great to be a dickfor no reason sometimes huh?

Too tempting an option for some it seems.

 

[TennMan101]

Debord had decided to retire so he could spend time with the grandkids. Since they live in Indiana, he took that job with the Hoosiers. Point being he was not going to be here next year anyway.

I don't believe that's accurate. I think CBJ told him it was either retire & look respectable, or get fired & go out of your last gig being fired. Dobbs & Kamara saved Debord & his mediocre play calling, IMO.

 

[TNJOKER]

Disagree with #1.

Have you seen Butchs play calling when he has a small lead? He will be even safer when it comes to his own career.

Which is kinda stupid IMO.. should be running up.the score to get your ass off the hot seat.. opposite day?
?0-0?

 

[Evergrenevol]

If you look at TN coaches track record - making a big philisophical change while on hot seat hasn't worked out at all.

Fulmer - Clawson 1&done
Dooley - Sunseri 1&done

If you're Jones, here is what your looking at in review

1. You just set offensive records in your offense but lost your leader
2. Your greatest weaknesses this year were discipline and injuries.
3. Your greatest strengths was your QB whom you're losing

So how do you address each?

1. Don't rock offensive strategy. Numbers don't lie. However you need better situational play calling. Numbers may have been good but offense was inconsistent at times.

2. Injuries and discipline are often the foundations of a S&C program. The S&C coach spends more time with players than any other coach. S&C is bedrock of team identity.

3. Need to develop QB to replace Dobbs. You don't have the luxury of time right now.

All of this taken into account, I can see why Jones isn't taking a huge risk in resetting offensive structure.

That said, offensive line is #4 risk and needs addressed. We have not had good offensive line play (both run and pass) since Fulmer. Would love to see an upgrade here.

Good post. Tennessee put up record numbers on offense because of Dobbs' escapability and his improvisational ability to turn dead plays into long plays with his magical runs. His improv runs were what made in the offense special the past 2 years. DeBord even admitted as much after the 2015 season, by saying he "can't take credit for a lot of what Dobbs does." I have often wondered how ordinary our offense would have been without those magical runs. I think we were also blessed that he never was hurt enough to come out of a game....which is amazing.[/B]

 

[Batman1948]

I don't see the new AD telling the UT Board he wants to bite off $12-16 mil in buyout money in his first yr just to FIRE a coach who has rebuilt the program and bite off $20+mil more in guarantees to hire another coach that half the fan base won't be happy with either. Plus lose several key players in transfers.

Also, no proven coach will look at Tennessee if Butch is terminated next year. I'm sure everyone remembers what happened to us after Phil was terminated. Everyone thought we would have the best in the business lining up to interview at Tennessee. How did that turn out?

 

[TheEndlessEnigma]

Why do we go back and play real football this 7 on 7 is a joke look at bama when its crunch time they line up and give there big back the ball and kick your azz wait in the NC game Nick will run the I alot and run the ball down the tigers throat and we will still be playing 7 on 7 in 17 watching bama and Michigan play for the NC with there full backs and tight ends.:thud:I WILL CALL THE NC GAME IN 18 REMEMBER THIS POST WRITE IT DOWN DONT GIVE A DAMN IF YOU LIKE IT OR NOT BAMA AND MICHIGAN WILL PLAY FOR THE NC NEXT YEAR JIMMY MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING FOR BAMA because he knows running the ball and a strong defense wins NC's.::thud:This 7 on 7 put up the stats but it doesnt put rings on your fingers.hmy:

Say what?

 

[Burger]

Also, no proven coach will look at Tennessee if Butch is terminated next year. I'm sure everyone remembers what happened to us after Phil was terminated. Everyone thought we would have the best in the business lining up to interview at Tennessee. How did that turn out?

Patterson wanted the job in 2009.