Recruiting

#76

shane80

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#76
Tennessee offers a lot to recruits in terms of facilities, education, etc. However winning games is probably the best tool for recruiting. If the offense can put up enough points to put together some wins maybe some recruits will take notice. The coaches should show the program will be progressing under CJH. That will help bring in recruits. We need to hit this instate class hard to build a solid base for this years class.
 
#77

onevol74

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#77
I agree we cannot tell how well he will recruit here at UT but let's also be accurate with past history. Who is actually being intellectually dishonest here? The indisputable facts are 1) He never tied for the best ranked class as you claim, that would be #50 twice 2) #62 is in NOT third best as you claim 3) There have been several ranked classes at UCF better than CJH's best (those all better would be #50, #50, #54 as well as a #55 and a #57.....both better than #62) so yet another of your claim's is factually incorrect also...........4) he had a major advantage in following an undefeated season when UCF was in the national spot light and he failed to capitalize.......I will remain cautiously optimistic but not put my head in the sand
After reading your post I have to wonder what you consider “cautiously optimistic?” Butch and Dooley could recruit here. What was their previous classes before coming to UT?

Stop promoting negativity.
 
#79

Remy

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#79
And people need to understand No. 25-30 in recruiting probably puts us at 11th or 12th out of the 14 team SEC. Heupel needs 5 to 7 years.

Please stop with the 5 to 7 year plans. If Heupel cannot put a winner playing solid fundamental football on the field by year three he needs to be gone, just like anybody else. Stop paying losers long term.
 
#82

JMSqb11

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#82
I think Heupel is a bright offensive mind and will def improve our lackluster offense but my concern is can he recruit at a high enough level here to succeed. And is it a huge deal even if he can’t recruit to the level of Butch and Pruitt if he does a better job of in game coaching and coaching the kids up. We all know Butch and Pruitt were good recruiters but terrible in game coaches with their recruits especially Pruitt. I do think JH will get 5 full seasons here to turn it around. What are you guys overall expectations for Heupel?
Given that like 75% of kids in transfer portal have no where to go, I think Huepel can trade off recruiting freshmen for transfers. While it sacrifices the long term, I have no issues if he loads the boat on transfer portal folks over 25 recruits in the short term.
 
#83
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#83
I have no idea what kind of recruiter Heupel is. Understand he probably avoided the best recruits in the nation at ucf knowing they wouldn’t come there. So only time will tell. I think it’s more important that every position coach be a phenomenal recruiter than Heupel be. Based on what we know of whose hired, I’d be more concerned about offensive recruiting than defensive. But surely i could be wrong there 🤷‍♂️
 
#84

Ashevillevol

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#84
We Vol Fanatics know that a good coach only needs 3 years.
If New Coach gets 4 years his ass will be on fire.
Lol. Now if we could just get one of those “good “ coaches we would be set.
It will be interesting to see how this kind of team stacks up against really top of the table defenses. My guess is we are going to be on the short end of quite a few 51-38 type games. But at least we will be scoring points. And who knows? Maybe this is the best guy we could get at this point.
 
#85

99gator

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#85
Getting talent to come to Tennessee has never been a problem. There is plenty to sell, even with our recent struggles. People questioned Butch as a recruiter before he came to Tennessee, but he landed some very highly rated classes with no power 5 coaching experience. Even Dooley, who was a lazy recruiter, landed a top 15 class his first year.

Tennessee will always get good players. What Tennessee needs is a coach who a) develops talent, b) creates a winning mentality and culture, and c) provides a schematic advantage. Those are the things that have been lacking at Tennessee for a long time. Heupel should give Tennessee part c. I think this staff should develop talent. Changing the culture may be the biggest challenge.
Serious question here.

Recruiting rankings be damned, do you all seriously believe that recruiting hasn't been a problem? Has the problem only been coaching?

Do you all not see talent differences between Tennessee's talent level now and before the slide?
 
#86

savannahfan

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#86
I think Heupel is a bright offensive mind and will def improve our lackluster offense but my concern is can he recruit at a high enough level here to succeed. And is it a huge deal even if he can’t recruit to the level of Butch and Pruitt if he does a better job of in game coaching and coaching the kids up. We all know Butch and Pruitt were good recruiters but terrible in game coaches with their recruits especially Pruitt. I do think JH will get 5 full seasons here to turn it around. What are you guys overall expectations for Heupel?
If you teach and coach well, also win a few, THEY WILL COME.
 
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#87

VolInNW

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#87
Please stop with the 5 to 7 year plans. If Heupel cannot put a winner playing solid fundamental football on the field by year three he needs to be gone, just like anybody else. Stop paying losers long term.
Thank you. We will know in 3 years. That 5-7 mentality simply leads to needless extensions that cost the program millions. We will know, people. We may not be SEC champs in 3 years, but we will know if JH is fielding competitive teams.

Serious question here.

Recruiting rankings be damned, do you all seriously believe that recruiting hasn't been a problem? Has the problem only been coaching?

Do you all not see talent differences between Tennessee's talent level now and before the slide?
We threw away a lot of the program equity long ago. Tennessee no longer "recruits itself". That said, it's still a major program in the SEC, so there are natural advantages. Our talent is mid tier SEC right now. Maybe lower half. A good coach can win here. A very good coach can excel with a slight talent upgrade.

We shall see.
 
#88

njvols

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#88
And people need to understand No. 25-30 in recruiting probably puts us at 11th or 12th out of the 14 team SEC most years.
He’ll get it if he does his part. Problem is our last 3 hit ceilings and declined. I’d rather see a Majors trajectory...know we will lose some we should probably win, but need some upsets along the way to keep people excited.
 
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#89

djohnnyg

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#89
Not to brag but I was dead on w my analysis of Pruitt. I said he was a dumb coach. I said there's no proof he's even a "good guy." I said he felt he was doing us a favor by coming here and had a terrible attitude toward the media and fans...and the biggest thing is I said he was a really good recruiter and I worried what would happen to recruiting if he were fired early. I demand a cookie for my analysis. Lol. But seriously...many of us had the same concerns and the fallout from his firing is even worse than I and many others thought.
Recruiting is soooo important. Its why I was on the Gruden train. I truly felt w Gruden..we could have the #1 recruiting class. There's no proof or guarantee he would..just my opinion.
 
#90

tnutater

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#90
Serious question here.

Recruiting rankings be damned, do you all seriously believe that recruiting hasn't been a problem? Has the problem only been coaching?

Do you all not see talent differences between Tennessee's talent level now and before the slide?
99, you belly dragging lizard, you been on here long enough to know that answer.
You know on VolNation it is always the coach's fault. Our jock sniffing coach worshipers are second to none in college football.
Who is this "you all" ??
Not all Vol fans are blind or stupid.
Some see the lack of NFL draft picks.
Some will admit very few players could contribute if they were on our Big Three competitors teams.
Some LOL at our star gazing talent evaluators.
"you all" my butt.
 
#91

xpsyclonex2002

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#91
Teams with less talent can be coached to perform at a higher level than teams with more talent. That's on the coaching staff. App St. Beating Michigan is an example. Georgia St. Beating us is another. The talent gap was huge.....but they won. JH needs to show thaat he can out scheme and out coach to get us through the next 3 years. During that time, he needs to be building a foundation for the following years. If he can't show something in year 1, that's not going to be a good sign.
 
#92

unfrozencvmanvol

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#92
Please stop with the 5 to 7 year plans. If Heupel cannot put a winner playing solid fundamental football on the field by year three he needs to be gone, just like anybody else. Stop paying losers long term.
Considering how gutted our roster is with sanctions on top of that, you'd have to be a fool to think we can reasonably expect a winner and get an honest read on a coach in 3 years in this situation, of course our fanbase is chock full of fools, no doubt about that.
 
#93

ThreatLevelOrange

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#93
Butch and Dooley recruited at similar levels when they were at mid majors. Then they come here and recruit top 20 classes every year. Same with Pruitt. Heupel will follow suit.

Recruiting is the reason we can’t bear Alabama. It wasn’t the reason Butch lost 4 winnable games to Florida. And it wasn’t the reason we have problems with Kentucky, Missouri, S Carolina, and Vandy. We need to get 85 players and 11 coaches on one page.
 
#94

ThreatLevelOrange

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#94
Teams with less talent can be coached to perform at a higher level than teams with more talent. That's on the coaching staff. App St. Beating Michigan is an example. Georgia St. Beating us is another. The talent gap was huge.....but they won. JH needs to show thaat he can out scheme and out coach to get us through the next 3 years. During that time, he needs to be building a foundation for the following years. If he can't show something in year 1, that's not going to be a good sign.
How’d year 1 go for Pruitt? 6 losses by 25 points or more. Year 2 started with a loss to Ga St. year 3 included our worst loss to Kentucky in 85 years.

The culture of losing and excuses is a bigger problem than talent.
 
#95

PlanetVolunteer

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#95
Sort of disagree - a good offense can make up for a lot these days and this is the best QB room in 15+ years. Not saying we will compete with the big boys right away, but I see 6-6/7-5 Y1 - the best first year record since Fulmer.
Yeah we still have more than enough to beat all our non-conference opponents, Vandy, Kentucky, USCjr, and Ole Miss.

People still act like we are gonna trot JG out there. Now the only real concern for me is that our defense will be Dooley era bad.
 
#96

tnutater

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#96
Teams with less talent can be coached to perform at a higher level than teams with more talent. That's on the coaching staff. App St. Beating Michigan is an example. Georgia St. Beating us is another. The talent gap was huge.....but they won. JH needs to show thaat he can out scheme and out coach to get us through the next 3 years. During that time, he needs to be building a foundation for the following years. If he can't show something in year 1, that's not going to be a good sign.
That is why they are called upsets. They happen.
The teams with the best talent wins MOST of the time.
Coaches be damned.
New Coach, Nick, or Dabo could not take our roster and "show something" next year.
We are competitive with our cupcakes and a couple SEC bottom feeders.
We do not have the talent to win anything of importance.
Coaching alone can not change that.
 
#97

i2amavol

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#97
True but we have a lot stiffer competiton than he had. The bottom line is we went 3-7 last year and lost alot of our best players in the portal with the coaching change, throw in NCAA and self imposed sanctions and beating Pitt, South Carolina, Vandy and the 3 cupcakes would be a damn good season.
We went 3-7 against all SEC competition.

I'm also not so sure that we lost all our best players. I think this past year was a perfect storm against us, but this year may be the opposite. Will we be great? Probably not, but our talent level is nowhere near the bottom of the barrel. Maybe just maybe, we lost the players that were a cancer to our team (mostly). That would be addition by subtraction.
 
#98

thistime

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#98
This team still has talent and a lot of it. We have not seen ANY of the talent we have, or had, developed over the past 10 years or more. The team will have growing pains but they will be GROWING unlike what we have become oh so familiar with. Will we win the SEC, stranger things have happen, but realistically I believe we will compete at a different level and with a wide open offense we should be fun to watch. Let them take what we have and develop it, then add the pieces on both sides of the ball they will need and I really believe were all in for a pleasant surprise. The high scoring offense and swarming defense of the Vol's we all remember form years ago may be becoming closer to reality than we know.
 
#99

tennrich1

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#99
Just worry about the coaching. Its something about developing players that brings other players in herds. Tennessee recruits itself honestly. We have the best of everything that you can offer a kid. Think about what our program has gone through over the last decade. With all that, we havent had a recruiting class rank outside of the top 25 since 2008. If CJH can develope these guys and not shoot himself in the foot during crucial situational football he can win big here.
Yes this is mostly where I am as well. Tennessee should always be able to recruit decently. That’s no pressure on CJH but hopefully will help him get in doors SO he can recruit. I think if we all were being judgement day honest we’d admit at this point we have very little idea what’s going to happen though. He seems to me to be smart, well respected, and the players have responded ok (except for some who don’t really fit the system). Will we win this year? IDK. But sometimes these type situations cause people to be very successful. So who knows? I’m trying to be something I’m not...and that’s patient!!
 

sjt18

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I think Heupel is a bright offensive mind and will def improve our lackluster offense but my concern is can he recruit at a high enough level here to succeed. And is it a huge deal even if he can’t recruit to the level of Butch and Pruitt if he does a better job of in game coaching and coaching the kids up. We all know Butch and Pruitt were good recruiters but terrible in game coaches with their recruits especially Pruitt. I do think JH will get 5 full seasons here to turn it around. What are you guys overall expectations for Heupel?
If you can coach guys up then you have a GREAT sell to recruits. The style of play that they seem to have in mind gives offensive skill players and QB's max opportunity to make plays and post stats. On D, players will get the chance to make big plays also.

How good were Pruitt and Jones at recruiting? Jones caught a windfall of homers like Hurd and legacy players that provided the foundation for 3 good classes. When that dried up and it became about him, his "sales pitch", and his demonstrated ability to coach, the recruiting fell off significantly. Pruitt's classes weren't that great and we now know he was committing serious NCAA violations to get them.... not just run of the mill t-shirts here and steak dinners for Uncle Joe.

I don't think the rules change for Heupel much if at all. He starts behind the 8 ball even worse than the last 4 coaches have considering the NCAA issues. He REALLY has to prove that he can coach guys up and make them look good on game day. He MUST be able to point to some 3* guys who are posting 6* stats and tell 4/5* recruits, "that could be you but better". HOWEVER.... the practical truth is that no matter how unfair you think it is a coach cannot be "given" more than 3 seasons before they prove something on the field. If that happens, recruits simply stop listening and rival recruiters make sure that the best players know that you aren't likely to be around much longer and won't succeed even if you are.

There are two pieces of good news for CJH. One, the bar has been set extraordinarily low. If he gets 9 or maybe even 8 wins by year 3 and isn't having bad losses like Pruitt and Jones both made habitual... then both fans and recruits can consider that pretty good progress. Recruits especially can be sold that "I'm doing this with the guys I've inherited. Imagine what we can do together".

Second, he is inheriting a "sneaky" talented team and especially on offense. At Mizzou, he didn't have nearly this much raw talent or a QB room with 4 possible starters with SEC level physical talent in it... and took them from the SEC's worst total O (281 ypg) in the year prior to his arrival to first in his first season with 500 ypg. If you need further proof of his impact, MU was terrible before him. Great with him. Mediocre after he left.

This team has talent and especially at WR. I am anxious to see what Hyatt, Calloway, V Jones, Holiday, Keyton, Tillman, Wideman, Nixon, Merrill, et al can do in an O that gives them real opportunities to make plays. The greatest opportunity is for a TE to emerge. If you are Dee Beckwith... you must have a perma-smile on. Then you take a look at the back field and see more guys with a ton of raw talent.

Not a lot of experience but that also means they don't have to "unteach" very much.

There are a lot of things weighing against him but none of the previous 4 coaches inherited this much offensive depth of talent... and he's reputed as an offensive genius. That to me is his best shot.
 
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