Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXVI

[OGbabyaviVol]

UT students planning a walk-out during the UMASS game. That could be one of the final nails in the coffin for Lyle

That's lame and classless. Your fellow student-athletes are on the field giving their all for the university. Stay and support them. You want to make a point...all of you each write a well thought out letter explaining why the HC position at TN is over Butch's head, and why it's time to make a change for a proven coach who can bring us back to elite status.

 

[GoBigOrangeVols]

I wish Butch would let practices be open to media. I would like to know what the mood and how the team is responding to Saturday. Hopefully it lights a fire under them.

We'll see on Saturday. Initially I thought the boys would come out flat since it's a noon kick against an inferior opponent. As the week goes on I'm now leaning more towards the boys coming out guns blazing and trying to exercise some demons.

We may see a rare 60 spot this weekend. Everyone needs the confidence boast going into next week.

 

[eazyTD]

100% positive on that easy? Haven't seen you post in awhile. What are your thoughts on replacements?

Yes. He will either be fired with a bad record or will parachute to another job if he salvaged this into a 9-3 type season. Most do not realize how hard Armstrong worked to find Butch a new job at the end of last season. Currie did not hire Jones. Currie is a Tennessee man and has no loyalty to Jones.

We will see what happens but the fact is, Tennessee is a much more attractive job than it was in 2012. The roster, the available money, the AD the new coach will be working with. All of this is more appealing.

 

[BigZiti09]

Could see him taking an ASU job and TN doesn't force him to pay buyout. All parties leave sastified

If he wins enough to be coveted by other schools then UT is gonna want his buyout money.

What you are suggesting is plausible but very unlikely IMO.

 

[RockyTopInBham]

If Butch were to leave, the most entertaining scenario would be Baylor, IMO. There's a real chance Matt Rhule only wins like 2 games there this year. I don't think yet that they'd give up on him after 1 year, but how funny would it be to see Butch and Hurd reunited?

 

[LA Vol]

You said coordinator. He's an offensive guy

You made the leap, Bruin. He's better at ST.

But again, I just offered that as a possible option that he might pursue. I agree that he wouldn't be a top candidate. Cool?

 

[Chuckie]

I think CBJ will leave for a less stressful job in a less competitive conference, and I think he'll take a little less money to do it. Sexton could negotiate a creative package that looks respectable, he could go to a private school that doesn't release compensation or he could go to the NFL as a coordinator, which he could spin as a career move.

IMO, the last thing he wants is the stigma of being fired and wants to leave on his own terms. UT would probably work with him on his buyout.

I was thinking about that earlier this morning. Butch is hyper-sensitive to how he is portrayed and perceived. I think that sensitivity would lead to him taking a financial hit in lieu of being humiliated (i.e. take a reduced buyout to mutually part ways instead of a very publicized firing and receipt of the full buyout).

 

[AAVFL]

Yes. He will either be fired with a bad record or will parachute to another job if he salvaged this into a 9-3 type season. Most do not realize how hard Armstrong worked to find Butch a new job at the end of last season. Currie did not hire Jones. Currie is a Tennessee man and has no loyalty to Jones.

We will see what happens but the fact is, Tennessee is a much more attractive job than it was in 2012. The roster, the available money, the AD the new coach will be working with. All of this is more appealing.

What would you consider a bad record 7-5?

 

[mr.checkerboards]

Also since people are just throwing names out there Steve Spurrier as HC, Fulmer as OC and some other dude as DC lets do it ut admin

 

[BigZiti09]

I was thinking about that earlier this morning. Butch is hyper-sensitive to how he is portrayed and perceived. I think that sensitivity would lead to him taking a financial hit in lieu of being humiliated (i.e. take a reduced buyout to mutually part ways instead of a very publicized firing and receipt of the full buyout).

Nobody is walking away from $7.5 million. Especially not when they fire their agent and hire Jimmy Sexton.

If he is let go he is gonna want the full buyout.

What I do think is that if given the chance to restart his clock and avoid being fired he is gonna take it even if it means a lateral move or maybe even a step down. I just don't think we are gonna see that scenario play out. Mostly because I don't think he's gonna win enough games this year to do it. 8-4 football coaches are everywhere and they don't require $3m buyouts on the front end.

 

[Kingston Vol]

We could trade MacIntyre for Butch. Would be hilarious given the fact Butch had an agreement to become Colorado's head coach before we poached him and they hired Mac.

 

[jave36]

If that's the case we've had a losing season or Butch gets fed up and moves on on his own (most likely scenario IMO).

I always look at the money. If the money keeps rolling in, the AD is more likely to retain. I realize Currie is not Dave Hart, but I can't help but to remember that he would have brought Dolley back had he not lost to Vandy.

I don't think Butch gets fired. He may not be here but I don't think he's fired. I've talked to a couple of boosters and they are full Butch. One I was sure would be ready to send him packing. Surprised me, frankly.

You say you always look at the money, but you say Butch will leave on his own? When has a coach ever quit and forfeited their buyout? He's not good enough to get an upgrade, so Butch quitting = Butch losing money = that will never happen.

 

[AAVFL]

Nobody is walking away from $7.5 million. Especially not when they fire their agent and hire Jimmy Sexton.

If he is let go he is gonna want the full buyout.

What I do think is that if given the chance to restart his clock and avoid being fired he is gonna take it even if it means a lateral move or maybe even a step down. I just don't think we are gonna see that scenario play out.

Money makes the world go round.

 

[BigZiti09]

You say you always look at the money, but you say Butch will leave on his own? When has a coach ever quit and forfeited their buyout? He's not good enough to get an upgrade, so Butch quitting = Butch losing money = that will never happen.

Also if you look at the money.....

It will never be cheaper to part ways with him than it will be this December. Never.

 

[volfanCLT]

Those saying we should keep Butch after a 7-5 year, what are the reasons?

His conference record the last 3 years would be 5-3 to 4-4 to 3-5 with more and more of his guys filling out the roster. 17-23 overall. That’s a hard sell.

 

[BigZiti09]

Those saying we should keep Butch after a 7-5 year, what are the reasons?

His conference record the last 3 years would be 5-3 to 4-4 to 3-5 with more and more of his guys filling out the roster. 17-23 overall. That’s a hard sell.

Is anyone saying that besides Bruin?

 

[Kingston Vol]

Those saying we should keep Butch after a 7-5 year, what are the reasons?

His conference record the last 3 years would be 5-3 to 4-4 to 3-5 with more and more of his guys filling out the roster. 17-23 overall. That’s a hard sell.

It seems to me the only one trying to sell that is Bruin so you can safely assume no one believes it.

 

[McGeesPub]

Those saying we should keep Butch after a 7-5 year, what are the reasons?

His conference record the last 3 years would be 5-3 to 4-4 to 3-5 with more and more of his guys filling out the roster. 17-23 overall. That’s a hard sell.

That's the thing. They would be expecting something to turn around when there is absolutely no evidence that it would.

 

[volfanCLT]

It seems to me the only one trying to sell that is Bruin so you can safely assume no one believes it.

I guess so. I haven’t been on as much the last few days and wrongly assumed people other than Bruin are suggesting this.

Carry on. Just Bruin being Bruin.

 

[jave36]

Also if you look at the money.....

It will never be cheaper to part ways with him than it will be this December. Never.

Yep. That's true too. I just don't see that we've maximized any talent here at Tennessee. The problems we had 2 and 3 years ago are still problems. Players aren't developing for the most part. Other than recruiting, I don't see how anyone could provide evidence for extending Butch Jones. We've played slightly below our talent level every season.

 

[InVOLuntary]

So you are keeping him at 7-5. I am with you.

Do you give him an extension at that point?

I'm not advocating keeping him at any record. If I look long term, I don't ever see him competing for the east. Coaches either have it or they don't and I don't think he has it. I think he's reached his Pinnacle here.

What I am saying is that it is my belief that he will be retained even if he finishes 6-6. I am not convinced he'll be here though as he may look to leave on his own. He would have last year if he could have. The problem is his stock is falling. I think there is a huge divide between what he thinks his stauture is verses how others perceive him on a national level. I think this may be a problem with him securing acceptable employment elsewhere.

 

[InVOLuntary]

I think CBJ will leave for a less stressful job in a less competitive conference, and I think he'll take a little less money to do it. Sexton could negotiate a creative package that looks respectable, he could go to a private school that doesn't release compensation or he could go to the NFL as a coordinator, which he could spin as a career move.

IMO, the last thing he wants is the stigma of being fired and wants to leave on his own terms. UT would probably work with him on his buyout.

This is how I could see it going down.

 

[LA Vol]

He is gonna need at least 8 regular season wins to do that and maybe 9. This team isn't winning 9 games IMO. Gotta remember, someone would have to want him bad enough to pay UT $3m to hire him away. Then you have got to get him a salary at least close to what he is making here. So now you are talking big bucks. Not a lot of programs are gonna fall into that category of being willing to spend big bucks and the guy they select to do it on is CBJ who's best record is 8-4 in 5 years.

NFL OC job is even less likely. He's not an NFL OC. Not even close.

I think he can work a deal elsewhere at 8-4 and that would be a win-win. You really have to factor his pride and other intangibles into this. Does he really want the humiliation of being fired or does he want to walk away with his head held high? This job hasn't gone the way he planned and it's been hard on him and his family. If he can work a creative deal with escalators that gets him in a respectable range, I think he takes it.

He brings skills to the table. He can rebuild a down program, recruit, run a clean program and win in a less competitive conference. He's a good guy. There are schools that will place a high value on that. They can flex-term his contract. His buyout dropped to $2 mil this year. UT could waive or defer some of that to smooth the deal. Done all the time.

 

[BruinVol]

You made the leap, Bruin. He's better at ST.

But again, I just offered that as a possible option that he might pursue. I agree that he wouldn't be a top candidate. Cool?

Sure

ST he would be great

 

[Billy Antrim]

Funerals before death are always awkward.

It all comes down to the choices we have in life.

Many of our most vocal posters have chosen to conduct another coaching search - in September! Their choice, but IMO it's a waste of energy to do this now and undermines our team.

OTOH we can support our coaching staff and players for the next nine games (hopefully ten) and let the season play itself out before we replace any coaches. Our players, if not our coaching staff, deserve our support! GBO!